Ttystikk's vertical goodness

tystikk

tystikk

Member
Greetings, I'm here because I was invited to join here by Logic- at The Head Case farm.

Apparently he and his sycophants convinced themselves I didn't have anything valuable to contribute.

I'm here in the vertical section to share my ideas and get some tips.

First, a quick description of what I'm doing; vertical grow around a single bare thouie hung vertically, using field fencing as trellis. I run two sections of fencing, each 4' x 6'3" long and use them to create a tube 4' tall x 4' in diameter. I only run one plant per trellis, and here's where it gets a lil interesting; I put the plant against the OUTSIDE of the trellis, and only let the growing tips through. Each panel for a plant is 25 ft², and so each tube has 50 ft².

Roots are in RDWC, 27 gallon tuffboxes, airless aeration, environmental control is by water chiller. Not just the tubs, either; everything is water cooled, including dehuey and temperature management.

I've already got one run under my belt; Dairy Queen did reasonably well for being topped and trained for a horizontal canopy grow before they got put into vert! They never got terribly big, and they definitely overcrowded themselves, both easy fixes.

Now, I'm running three vertical tubes in the room and the girls are much bigger. So far, so good...
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
The rest of the setup may deserve mention, as well; I cool a 16kW op with only four Tons of water chilling- and most of the time I only need half that much! Those who are trying to cool their op more efficiently or effectively, drop me a line, I have hundreds of tips to help.

I run a perpetual op, several stages from clones to chop. This means I build spaces customized around the needs of specific segments of the plant's life cycle, and you can guess the results.

RDWC of my own design and construction, with features unavailable in the commercial marketplace AT ANY PRICE, including built-in turbulence, airless aeration and more.

A comprehensive reduce/reuse/recycling program that has seen me reusing my chowmix for years, and throwing away very little besides thick stalks and root bundles.

Even the waste heat the chiller removes from my grow op is recycled; the chiller sits in my office ask winter and warms my whole house. In Colorado. All winter. I last ran my furnace almost three years ago...

And yes, there's lots more where this came from!
 
G

green.green

New Member
Are you using you reservoirs as heat sinks? One main res with chiller cycled through RDWC res' using wort chiller type design. What am I missing? Also - I like the vertical trellis idea especially if you can keep the plant count down but unless you are actually pulling 3x product with 1/2 Kw then its still just theoretical. It does seem like a good strategy for growing a 10-14 week sativa indoors though.
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
Welcome ty! Can't wait to see some pics. I like the point of keeping most of plant outside of trellis.
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Okay, cool- glad folks are curious! To address your observation, I did this in order to place the plant where it made the most sense to me. First, if the stalk and branches are on the outside, I can more easily manipulate and clip them to the trellis. Second, I stuff the growing tips through the trellis, which effectively locates them at the exact optimum distance from the bulb- and of course they get unobstructed access to the light, as well.

I've competed one run and I've got two more going, each with lessons learned from the last crops, good and bad. So far, I've discovered that I must guard against seeing the plant choke itself by letting it get too dense and tight- and thus larfy.
 

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tystikk

tystikk

Member
green.green said:
Are you using you reservoirs as heat sinks? One main res with chiller cycled through RDWC res' using wort chiller type design. What am I missing? Also - I like the vertical trellis idea especially if you can keep the plant count down but unless you are actually pulling 3x product with 1/2 Kw then its still just theoretical. It does seem like a good strategy for growing a 10-14 week sativa indoors though.
Click to expand...
My RDWC doesn't have a separate reservoir; each tub is 27 gallons, BIG, to accommodate the plant's every need. Linking six together, using a spacer to lift the netpot up to allow for 17 gallons of water in each tub, allows for six plants per run and 100 gallons of nutrient. That kind of size creates its own inertia, for water temps, for EC, for pH, keeping things stable and easy to maintain with less attention. As I mentioned, I don't currently use an airpump or airstones- instead, I utilize the water from the recirculation pump to create a waterfall in each tub. To maintain temperature control in the tubs, I use a copper coil in my tailbucket through which runs water from the separate chiller circuit. In winter, this can mean warming up the water from a nutrient changeout, since it leaves the tap at 49F or even lower!

The theory is sound; vertical really does triple your trellis space from horizontal, and the way I'm approaching it, I'm currently using only a quarter of the usual wattage for a trellis this size. Thus far, the application is a learning process, but progress is clear; if I'm doing my job, the trellis is covered. There is no reason why the vertical trellis can't yield every bit as much per square foot as horizontal can, it's just a matter of teasing out its quirks and making the most of it. In other words, practice makes perfect, right?

20131118_214650.jpg
 
K

KingCloner

New Member
I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
According to tty it takes 20 weeks to grow a plant to finish using this method.
With a yield of less than a 1/2 pound finished (per plant) this is a huge waste of resource with little gain.
I can grow 4 times the pot in the same space at an 1/8 of the power consumption.
Where is the benefit here? Taste? Buzz? Sure ain't profit!
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
KingCloner said:
I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
According to tty it takes 20 weeks to grow a plant to finish using this method.
With a yield of less than a 1/2 pound finished (per plant) this is a huge waste of resource with little gain.
I can grow 4 times the pot in the same space at an 1/8 of the power consumption.
Where is the benefit here? Taste? Buzz? Sure ain't profit!
Click to expand...
My first crack at this, with lots of warts, was as you say- yet, it pointed the way forward. The current batch is much more representative of the approach and they're living up to its potential a lot better.

I'm not sure how you're doing your math for power consumption, time, or yield. Since they're numbers with no explanation, it sounds to me like you're not real clear on my process but you're happy to make snap judgements.

If time is of the essence, this isn't your op. I'm not building it for that customer, however.

A dispensary or warehouse certainly has the resources to run a stable operation with multiple stages; indeed, it's how things are done already. This kind of batch process is necessary, desirable and efficient. It is only news to a basement grower.

While there are several veg stages, all of them put together add up to less than one bloom room in terms of power consumption- and the potential return per square foot is far greater than harvesting on any flat surface, be it a ScrOG under lights or on the floor.

If you have specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them. I won't respond to anything else.

I'm sorry you choose your very first post to be this negative.
 
MedScientist

MedScientist

Well-Known Member
WooHoo! I LOVE the Idea! I have often thought of doing the Bulb/Screen thing on a Single Plant to spread out the Canopy in Equidistant spacing.

Oh My! I bet properly Mainlined Plant would work Great? Good Luck!

Peace
 
K

KingCloner

New Member
tystikk said:
A dispensary or warehouse certainly has the resources to run a stable operation with multiple stages; indeed, it's how things are done already. This kind of batch process is necessary, desirable and efficient. It is only news to a basement grower

I'm sorry you choose your very first post to be this negative.
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Basement grower huh! Where you growing ty? Looks like a basement to me (see the pix he posted)!
I can see why you keep getting kicked off other forums. Misinformation, acting like a wounded bird when someone throws constructive criticism your way, talking smack about others talking smack. How many usernames do you have on this forum ty (the main reason you keep getting kicked off other forums)?
Put some grow knowledge and some real math on those warts little buddy. Businesses that do not operate efficiently do not stay in business long. No warehouses or dispensaries (or even anyone in their right mind) would throw their time or money away on this impractical of a system.
2nd post not too positive either. Just can't stand someone claiming to know what they are doing posting nonsense to people who don't know any better.
Don't say I didn't warn you!
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
MedScientist said:
WooHoo! I LOVE the Idea! I have often thought of doing the Bulb/Screen thing on a Single Plant to spread out the Canopy in Equidistant spacing.

Oh My! I bet properly Mainlined Plant would work Great? Good Luck!

Peace
Click to expand...
Hey there! I'm stoked about it, too!

I'm having better luck not topping the plants at all thus far.

I've got one run done and another in process, still learning... but it's fun!
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
I believe I've been remiss in that I haven't posted any pics or discussed any details.

Tubs;
20130811_162449.jpg

Setup;
20131118_214601.jpg

Cooling;
1367006850780.jpg

So, what people did not understand at the other site was that I'm not in this for seeds or glory, I'm here to find a better, cheaper way to grow it indoors and keep the quality.

Yes, I have a diverse stable of strains, to better test the equipment with. They've all been gifted, often closely held clones, I haven't popped a seed in this millennium.

Often, I test things to their limits, even beyond. This isn't 'failure', it's 'experience!'

The fact is that like learning any new technology, there is a learning curve. Currently, I'm on it, and I'm seeing extremely promising early results. I have a ways to go to see the potential of the system realized, but rest assured I'll get there! :weed:
 
whodatnation

whodatnation

Well-Known Member
Hey tys, looks awesome :-)

Iv been doing this inward facing canopy thing for about a year now, each grow has had its adjustments! Been growing in soil, but next round (in 4 weeks) will be in a UC/RDWC system similar to yours, but with 4-plants per light.

Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the progression!

:peace:
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
whodatnation said:
Hey tys, looks awesome :-)

Iv been doing this inward facing canopy thing for about a year now, each grow has had its adjustments! Been growing in soil, but next round (in 4 weeks) will be in a UC/RDWC system similar to yours, but with 4-plants per light.

Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the progression!

:peace:
Click to expand...
Hey, great to meet you! Can I ask about how you trellis your girls? Do you pin them to the inside of the canopy, or? What's the diameter of your trellis, and what ways are your bulb(s)? I'll go peep your thread, but if I recall it is long!

I can get some more detailed pics and discussion up, I think things are really progressing well at the moment.

This is of course not the only design I have planned, just the opening gambit to give me experience. Boy, do I have some doozies lined up...
 
whodatnation

whodatnation

Well-Known Member
This screen is almost 3ft in diameter. As you can see I let the plants grow through it from the outside, I used some small wire I bent into hooks to hold heavier inward leaning branches.

A pic is worth a thousand words though! This system uses a light mover with the vertical 600w bare bulb.







This is from the previous but very similar setup. Had one big plant at the bottom in the center with four plants around the perimeter.






View from the outside, early into flowering.
 
tystikk

tystikk

Member
whodatnation said:
This screen is almost 3ft in diameter. As you can see I let the plants grow through it from the outside, I used some small wire I bent into hooks to hold heavier inward leaning branches.

A pic is worth a thousand words though! This system uses a light mover with the vertical 600w bare bulb.







This is from the previous but very similar setup. Had one big plant at the bottom in the center with four plants around the perimeter.






View from the outside, early into flowering.
Click to expand...
WOW, impressive! Can I see how you make your lights move? Love the big colas inside the trellis, too!

If you had it to do over again, do you think you'd stick with the mover or try two or more bulbs instead?
 
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