More Than 500 Economists Sign Letter Against Minimum Wage Hike
- Thread starter jahbrudda
- Start date
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
we know it to be true thanks to you.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
@jahbruddah, I never said I agreed with raising min. wage. It will only speed up inflation. Econ 101
I just said kynes is retarded.
we are all in agreement with this no?
I just said kynes is retarded.
we are all in agreement with this no?
heckler73
Well-Known Member
You are correct. But the issue is more complicated than just the real min wage.
Personally, I find it amusing that Fama and Lucas have their names penned to that letter of discontent.
Fama's "claim to fame" is a result of designing a model for high-finance, his work in poverty research is moot.
(Look at his blog posts over the last 5 years for proof. "Min. wage" and "poverty" don't show up in any title.)
Lucas? He's a different cat. A heavily orthodox economist who has studied poverty at a geopolitical level, but under what assumptions?
He has a closed currency mindset (i.e. savings = investment) where full-employment exists. He's an old-schooler with a strong affinity for Uncle Milt.
Don't take my opinion the wrong way; his work in 'growth theory' is valuable for inspiration and direction, but his perception of microeconomics seems to stop at the producer. There's a lack of consideration for the demand and consumption elements in the grand equation. However, I am admittedly not well-versed in his writings. A large chunk of my view comes from heterodox critiques of his work.
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/02/lucas_on_growth.html
On that page is an audio interview with him from 2007 (Barry Ritholtz comment, too
He's come a long way since then). Around the 25min mark is where questions of social mobility and the lowest quintile are discussed. Lucas has a tendency to reflect back to the 40s & 50s whenever analogies are required and this is perhaps the fault in his thoughts. For that reason I am suspicious of his perspective in regards to minimum wage effects in the present.Nevertheless, the interview is worth listening to.
The ending is kind of funny; Lucas considered himself a "Pseudo-Marxist" when he started studying economics.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
apparently it is Appeal To Emotion day in politics.
mom and pop shops AREN'T relocating their production to china, because they lack the financial power to do so.
hence this comment found within this very thread:
"when labour costs rise, any business which can do so, moves production to a lower cost labour market. as labour costs climb higher, more and more production will be moved to places where costs are lower."
your local Taco Bell cannot pack up and move to china, but raising their labour costs could well force them to close, or at the very least, fire some workers and squeeze more labour out of those who remain.
when the government arbitrarily raises minimum wages, real people lose jobs.
it has been shown over and over in california that when the minimum wage rises, businesses either lay off workers, hire illegal aliens, go out of business, or leave for another state.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
still waiting for you guys to show me one single example of one single business that has had to close because of minimum wage hikes, ever.
just one single one.
Why not just sell them for $60 and undercut all your Chinese competition?
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
You're in good company. Not something I'd personally be proud of, though.insert "factual". that's the joke..we're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you.
i'm with snaps, joe, budley and travis
awesome posts, men!
PS kynes, are you one of those guys who ALWAYS orders a "seltzer" with your meal? if so, that steak DOES get spat on..sorry to have to break it to you this way..but i've waited on my share of tables
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Quentin Tarantino is the modern Ed Wood. Pulp Fiction is his only somewhat decent attempt. But it loses points for the dictionary entry SUPER for the movie's opening. Very lazy.
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
Virtually every US manufacture in my industry that offshored their product has had their intellectual property stolen from them and are no longer in business or are a shell of what they once were. Offshoring is giving your business away and is short sighted.
I wonder how that factors into ones bottom line?
And yes it is emotional when you have to let someone go that's doing a good job.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Kynes isn't retarded, just not enlightened and not at one. He lacks harmony and a stillness of mind. But many on here are much worse.
You should tell that to Apple.
JohnnySocko
Active Member
IMO the minimum wage hike is dumb...the prices you pay and the cost of living is relative to wages or how much people have to spend... raise wages; cost of everything goes up...
what they should do is figure out a way to keep the rich minority from ripping people off... the conservative mandate: "trickle down economics" can work, has its place; sometimes.. but 100% of the time/all the time ?
..so now we have "trickle up" economics; make businesses give burger flippers more money... this is just as dumb
I hate to agree with some of the neo-right wingers here, but closing REAL tax loop holes, stop shipping jobs off, et et might be a better approach
what they should do is figure out a way to keep the rich minority from ripping people off... the conservative mandate: "trickle down economics" can work, has its place; sometimes.. but 100% of the time/all the time ?
..so now we have "trickle up" economics; make businesses give burger flippers more money... this is just as dumb
I hate to agree with some of the neo-right wingers here, but closing REAL tax loop holes, stop shipping jobs off, et et might be a better approach
Doer
Well-Known Member
Mommie, there he goes again. Suddenly seeking Ego.
Doer
Well-Known Member
You know, I have really changed my mind about all this. It is only the 2nd time.....today.
If we just consider the quality of information, these Comedy slants, are much higher. They are sorting for funny.
And that is much better truthspeak, than Partisan sorting on SINN and FOGGS.
I like Cobert, Naked News, Daily, E, RT, Al J, all that. But, I have not watch Network Nightly News in years,.
jahbrudda
Well-Known Member
You make some valid points about trickle up economics.
But closing loopholes (which I am for) for big corporations will not put money in the pockets of the workers, that's a common misconception, revenue actually goes straight to government and government does nothing but grow. When government grows, it needs more and more revenue (tax money) to sustains itself, this will never end.
And you are also correct in wanting to stop off shoring, but again, we need to look at what's making domestic business move abroad.
It is no secret that the US government is the main culprit. The three biggest reasons businesses are leaving the US are high taxes, over regulation and high labor costs. The two easiest fixes would be cutting taxes and reining in costly and burdensome regulations.
One of the hurdles is that the left will instinctively overemphasize the dire need for environmental regulations, citing exaggerated knee jerk scenarios to make using fear to make their case. What is not told is, it's just not the direct cost of to conform, it's surviving the long bureaucratic process that comes with it.
Now we come to lowering taxes, that's a simple decision we have to make, knowing that increasing taxes does not put money in the pockets of working americans, it comes down to growing government or growing the economy.
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
How do you cut taxes on a business that pays none?
Last year, Citizens for Tax Justice found that 30 major corporations had made billions of dollars in profits while paying no federal income tax between 2008 and 2010. Today, CTJ updated that report to reflect the 2011 tax bill of those 30 companies, and 26 of them have still managed to pay absolutely nothing over that four year period:
– 26 of the 30 companies continued to enjoy negative federal income tax rates. That means they still made more money after tax than before tax over the four years!
– Of the remaining four companies, three paid four year effective tax rates of less than 4 percent
(specifically, 0.2%, 2.0% and 3.8%). One company paid a 2008-11 tax rate of 10.9 percent.
– In total, 2008-11 federal income taxes for the 30 companies remained negative, despite $205 billion in pretax U.S. profits. Overall, they enjoyed an average effective federal income tax rate of –3.1 percent over the four years.
Last year, Citizens for Tax Justice found that 30 major corporations had made billions of dollars in profits while paying no federal income tax between 2008 and 2010. Today, CTJ updated that report to reflect the 2011 tax bill of those 30 companies, and 26 of them have still managed to pay absolutely nothing over that four year period:
– 26 of the 30 companies continued to enjoy negative federal income tax rates. That means they still made more money after tax than before tax over the four years!
– Of the remaining four companies, three paid four year effective tax rates of less than 4 percent
(specifically, 0.2%, 2.0% and 3.8%). One company paid a 2008-11 tax rate of 10.9 percent.
– In total, 2008-11 federal income taxes for the 30 companies remained negative, despite $205 billion in pretax U.S. profits. Overall, they enjoyed an average effective federal income tax rate of –3.1 percent over the four years.
jahbrudda
Well-Known Member
First of all you are talking about only 30 companies, high taxes and over regulation effect all domestic businesses. The big corporations you are talking about participated in short term tax policy developed by Obama and Congress to motivate big corporations to invest money in order to create jobs and boost the economy. The policy only defer taxes into the future and the future never comes, it started in 2008 and was extended into 2013.
The three year period prior to the spending incentives one of the companies listed in your citizens for tax justice paid more than $1.1 billion in federal income taxes. From 2008 through 2013, the same company, American Electric Power paid almost $5billon in federal, state and local taxes.
But you ask how can we stop this,how about we quit letting government get in bed with big business, lets close the loop holes like I said.
More taxes = bigger government, less taxes=smaller government and more private sector jobs.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
before i look up to see if you plagiarized that, why don't you just go ahead and name one regulation that needs to be done away with.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
once you get done naming a regulation that needs to be done away with, we can talk about how 30+ years of trickle down economics has failed completely, beenthere.