Removing fan leaves during flowering

[kermit2692]

^ Something I consider evvvvery time I want to correct someone...and then I can't help myself and just correct them Anyway lol

 

[BenFranklin]

@joe mac, you wrote that. - It only stands to reason that the leaves closest to the light source are doing more work than those farther away.


that would be wrong, the leaves furthest away end up becoming larger than the leaves closest to the light. Meaning the larger leaf has to work harder to keep itself maintained.

 

[BenFranklin]

I would LOVE to see a scrog person who kept all their leaves, when you find one, be sure to post it here... Fucking moron. Seriously??? You're going to keep all the leaves on a scrog???.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLolol!!!

i could give a fuck either way what people do to their own plants, as long as THEIR(the person growing) needs are met, what i get tired of is the constant insulting and douchebaggery from both sides in this argument, both of which are completely useless to people like me who are trying to gleen ANY positive information we can from such retards taking part in such a debate.

None of you are offering ANY scientific evidence, just regurgitation of the same useless information, with out the answer ever being determined either way. But i love the way you folks degenerate into name calling and stupidity, every time this debate hits the forum.

the only thing you folks have really accomplished is making adversaries out of each other, over a debate that has no science backing it, and does not have any credible scientists doing legitimate scientific study on this technique.

if you wonder at my own insults, i figured it was neccessary, as it seems to be the best way you folks communicate amongst yourselves.

 

[mrCRC420]

So, let's say you're 2 weeks from harvest. If you cut off many of the fan leaves, the plant will stop storing energy in the fan leaves (since there aren't many), and more energy will go directly into the bud. You'll lose all that stored energy from the fan leaves, but the plant is on its way out anyways. I'm going to give it a shot; I don't think anything bad would actually happen; maybe it'd slow down, maybe it'd plump up. I always say no to defoliation but I like to say yes to experimentation.

 

[chuck estevez]

I would LOVE to see a scrog person who kept all their leaves, when you find one, be sure to post it here... Fucking moron. Seriously??? You're going to keep all the leaves on a scrog???.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLolol!!!

i could give a fuck either way what people do to their own plants, as long as THEIR(the person growing) needs are met, what i get tired of is the constant insulting and douchebaggery from both sides in this argument, both of which are completely useless to people like me who are trying to gleen ANY positive information we can from such retards taking part in such a debate.

None of you are offering ANY scientific evidence, just regurgitation of the same useless information, with out the answer ever being determined either way. But i love the way you folks degenerate into name calling and stupidity, every time this debate hits the forum.

the only thing you folks have really accomplished is making adversaries out of each other, over a debate that has no science backing it, and does not have any credible scientists doing legitimate scientific study on this technique.

if you wonder at my own insults, i figured it was neccessary, as it seems to be the best way you folks communicate amongst yourselves.

You ARE a fucking hypocrite. Please STFU.

 

[joe macclennan]

that would be wrong, the leaves furthest away end up becoming larger than the leaves closest to the light. Meaning the larger leaf has to work harder to keep itself maintained.

actually there have been several academic studies posted backing up my statement. how about yours?

citation needed

 

[chuck estevez]

actually there have been several academic studies posted backing up my statement. how about yours?

citation needed

they choose to ignore those studies, We have to post them every 10 posts for these guys to keep up. I think we just move at a different speed than these guys.

 

[joe macclennan]

bahh! ben franklin is known for posting retarded one liners in threads and then never returning. He is a troll.

I wouldn't expect him to return

 

[Wavels]

@joe mac, you wrote that. - It only stands to reason that the leaves closest to the light source are doing more work than those farther away.


that would be wrong, the leaves furthest away end up becoming larger than the leaves closest to the light. Meaning the larger leaf has to work harder to keep itself maintained.

Is this guy, in any way, serious about this truly bizarre assertion?

Has he even spent any time growing ganja?
I will not exert any effort arguing about growing techniques, as I have no way to prove anything, I can only attest as to what has worked best for me over the years.

I argue only in the Political Forum.

 

[chuck estevez]

@joe mac, you wrote that. - It only stands to reason that the leaves closest to the light source are doing more work than those farther away.


that would be wrong, the leaves furthest away end up becoming larger than the leaves closest to the light. Meaning the larger leaf has to work harder to keep itself maintained.

Here is some help BF, want to learn something??

Apical dominance is the phenomenon whereby the main central stem of the plant is dominant over (i.e., grows more strongly than) other side stems; on a branch the main stem of the branch is further dominant over its own side branchlets.

 

[neo12345]

I am sincerely trying to help the kid out, and have thus far ignored his snarky and snide comments...oh well.
You can lead a horse, but...

Why were my comments snide? I was just pointing out to you that the statement you made and backed up by 40 years of experience, seems to go against what people are actually doing. You could have conceded that point but now you want to dig your heels in like the rest and defend your stance, even though it flies in the face of reality!

It's quite a bold statement to make that everyone who is growing using the scrog technique is doing it wrong!!

I've read back through the other discussions that were had on this forum as suggested to me by another member, and the 'no leaves, no grow' mantra is continually repeated throughout. Yet scrogging and lollipopping techniques both remove a substantial amount of leaves and most people report positive results from using these techniques, so how is this possible if leaves have been removed?

Take this tree in my garden:



It appears to be flowering yet there were no leaves on it, and there haven't been any leaves on it for months now! How is that possible if there were no leaves there to grow the flowers in the first place? There are also plenty of trees with no leaves on outside, which will now grow new leaves from nothing.

Mother nature has already figured out a way of producing flowers with a loss of foliage long before humans ever existed and started growing weed at home, so I think that beats your experience hands down.

All people are doing is manipulating the plants natural response, the same as any other technique that is out there. It's not some kind of magic.

Why it's not allowed to be spoken about on this forum is the strange thing!!

 

[neo12345]

actually there have been several academic studies posted backing up my statement. how about yours?

citation needed

I actually agreed with that study you posted joe, you were too busy flaming to notice. That one scientific study however does not disprove the whole idea behind defoliation, it just shows that leaves that are further from the light aren't working to their full potential. Once again I fully agree with that.

It does not show what would happen to those lower leaves though if leaves that were blocking light out were removed, that would have given the study more relevance to what we are discussing.

Why can't we all just agree that there are no scientific studies relating directly to this subject? So we are left with peoples own personal experiences, and I can find plenty of peoples grow diaries across the internet where they have successfully used defoliation to increase their yield. I'm struggling to find any that show defoliation hasn't worked for them, and that it caused a lower yield or the plants just gave up and died.

Isn't that a little strange too? The only excuse is that people don't document failed grows, yet I can find plenty of failed grows for lot's of other reasons around the net.

Your argument is starting to look pretty flimsy from where i'm standing, I'm sure a few more pages of name calling will level things back out to your side though.

 

[Wavels]

Why were my comments snide? I was just pointing out to you that the statement you made and backed up by 40 years of experience, seems to go against what people are actually doing. You could have conceded that point but now you want to dig your heels in like the rest and defend your stance, even though it flies in the face of reality!

It's quite a bold statement to make that everyone who is growing using the scrog technique is doing it wrong!!

I've read back through the other discussions that were had on this forum as suggested to me by another member, and the 'no leaves, no grow' mantra is continually repeated throughout. Yet scrogging and lollipopping techniques both remove a substantial amount of leaves and most people report positive results from using these techniques, so how is this possible if leaves have been removed?

Take this tree in my garden:

View attachment 3029512

It appears to be flowering yet there were no leaves on it, and there haven't been any leaves on it for months now! How is that possible if there were no leaves there to grow the flowers in the first place? There are also plenty of trees with no leaves on outside, which will now grow new leaves from nothing.

Mother nature has already figured out a way of producing flowers with a loss of foliage long before humans ever existed and started growing weed at home, so I think that beats your experience hands down.

All people are doing is manipulating the plants natural response, the same as any other technique that is out there. It's not some kind of magic.

Why it's not allowed to be spoken about on this forum is the strange thing!!

Wow, I said that I have never used scrog...if I tried it, I would be compelled to use what I have seen that has worked best for me.
I do not see how leaving the leaves alone, could in any way, hamper the plants vigor.
And I have been growing herb for well over forty years...I am old, admittedly, but I love smoking and growing fine herb.
The more leaves, the bigger and more salubrious the buds.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and far be it from me to attempt to change your mind...they are your plants; I am simply providing testimony, which you are welcome to take or leave.
Good Luck.

BTW, except for wicked winds and thunder storm squalls I have NEVER seen Mother Nature take the leaves off of any of my outdoor plants.

 

[joe macclennan]

It does not show what would happen to those lower leaves though if leaves that were blocking light out were removed, that would have given the study more relevance to what we are discussing.

ok, so I'll try to state this slowly and with small words. YES it was relevant. The shading caused by upper leaves really has no bearing on the ability of a lower leafs ability to photosynthesize or translocate said sugars...to a point. for gods sake man. Of course if you remove an upper leaf to give lower leaves more light, the lower leaves will work more. DUH!

again, you are missing the entire point..go figure. The point is the sum of the lower leaves working @ their MAX potential MAY equal the potential of one upper leaf alone. So why not just leave them all on and reap the rewards?

I know I have explained this several times now.

and as far as your analogy about the redbud tree in your yard....WHAT? you are going to compare the stored energy from a perennial tree to the stored energy in an annual like mj?

this fall if you have any outdoor mj plants. just leave them alone and see how well they do next spring when everything else greens up

this isn't even an apples and oranges scenario...more like apples and dogfarts

smh

 

[Wavels]

.
BTW, except for wicked winds and thunder storm squalls I have NEVER seen Mother Nature take the leaves off of any of my outdoor plants.

I forgot about Mother Nature’s most aggressive and destructive means of defoliating my outdoor plants...demonic hailstorms have ripped my plants up over the years...and the plants never liked it, of this, I can assure you...LOL!

 

[chuck estevez]

Want to hear something funny, I don't even read NEO's posts anymore, I wheel right past em. I already know what it says.

 

[joe macclennan]

i'd put him on ignore but i'm afraid i'd back over him playing on his trike

 

[neo12345]

and as far as your analogy about the redbud tree in your yard....WHAT? you are going to compare the stored energy from a perennial tree to the stored energy in an annual like mj?

this fall if you have any outdoor mj plants. just leave them alone and see how well they do next spring when everything else greens up

Yes I'm comparing them in the same way, and I'm asking you the question about how it works as you're such an expert. I'm not asking why the plant does this i'm asking how it does it, how does that tree blossom with no leaves and also how a cannabis plant grows back so quickly with twice as many leaves after you've stripped most of the leaves off?

Please tell me where the plants with no leaves are getting their energy?

This hasn't got anything to do with the time of year, we are manipulating plants in an indoor environment. Though I could just have easily manipulated that tree to flower earlier, even though it is outdoors.

 

[billy4479]

Leaves are horrible for you plant during flowering . they should be taken off as soon as possible to make room for those giant buds . The reason why nobody wants to tell you take the leaves off is they just want those 3 grams a watt yields for them self's . Ever body should defoliate there plants during flower .

 

[joe macclennan]

do the test I suggested neo and get back to us next spring

edit: I am certainly no expert but I have a much greater understanding of a plants systems than you obviously neo