Do you really need a res heater as have no more sockets lol and it's quite hot in my groom specially now summer round the corner
The Brummie Bubbler
- Thread starter neo12345
- Start date
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
cool mate, i think the term defoliation is too ambiguous
i would describe what you have done as more canopy management or pruning
something i do myself
folk into this defoliation thing remove leaves from tiny plants in veg that are not shaded
they think removing leaves causes a growth spurt of extra shoots/bud sites etc
many of these defoliators strip plants almost bare before flower
the opposite extreme is folk that have a canopy full of leaves with no colas poking through much of the lower nodes shaded
scared to remove a single leaf
i like to keep as many leaves as possible but still open things up a little a balance between the two extremes
peace mate
BigLittlejohn
Well-Known Member
Great thread Neo, I am in for the remainder of the run.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Sorry it took so long to drop in! Really nice setup, and super grow!! No you dont need a heater. I try to keep my res temps below 71f but right now its impossible so the roots are not looking their perky white 
. Sorry if I missed it but what are your temps? Again super grow! I run a two tote system as well but no air pumps, just floom. Are the roots getting into pump at all? Thinking of revamping my setup so looking at everyones lol. Again great grow!
. Sorry if I missed it but what are your temps? Again super grow! I run a two tote system as well but no air pumps, just floom. Are the roots getting into pump at all? Thinking of revamping my setup so looking at everyones lol. Again great grow!
neo12345
Well-Known Member
I personally wouldn't use a heater in the res, as you'll be forever fighting the root rot. Warm water also holds less dissolved oxygen, so a heater won't be doing you any favours.
My best tip would be to keep the water level topped up, I had one or two issues with the plant on the right which you will see and I believe they were caused by allowing the water level to get too low.
Have you got your Cheese clones yet?
neo12345
Well-Known Member
Whichever way you look at it it's still defoliation as leaves are being removed, but I do agree with you that the whole subject is not very clear. Unfortunately some very childish people on this forum won't allow it to be discussed and investigated.
I would say the plant on the left could be considered as light canopy management as leaves were only removed to allow light to covered growing tips, and as you can see the plant has reached approx 12-14 inches above the canopy and is very bushy and compact. This left me concerned about airflow in and around the plant.
The plant on the right however has grown to 20 - 22 inches above the canopy, and although it may not look like it on the pictures but the canopy is much better spaced out to allow more light and air in and around it.
If you go back to the beginning you'll see that both plants were about the same size growing at the same rate until I started defoliating, then the plant on the right really took off.
So I would agree with the people that say the plant puts on a growth spurt when defoliated, I have seen this doing it both ways by defoliating a large amount of leaves all in one go and a more continual defoliation.
I would guess and I'm only guessing that when a plant loses a certain percentage of leaves then there is a hormonal response triggered to grow, but this is not activated if the plant just loses a few leaves here and there. Surely it's a natural response to animal or insect attack, where a plant may lose a significant amount of foliage and need to regrow it? It makes sense to me. It could be a combination of things that are happening, but we'll never find out what or why until there can be a sensible discussion about it.
I think one of the biggest misunderstandings about defoliation is that people get obsessed with those pictures of plants just after defoliation where they have no leaves on, and they think that is what's trying to be achieved i.e growing a plant with no leaves. In fact it's just the opposite as you can see by my plants, there are still plenty of leaves for growing!
The plant on the right is at least 30% bigger than the plant on the left at the same age, and this was achieved with nothing more than defoliation. I could really see the difference in the speed that they were growing, the plant on the right was what made me put them into flower as it was in danger of taking over the whole tent.
It's an interesting subject but for another time and place.
Still awaiting but I popped some pineapple chunk just cracked today and put them in root riot cubes in the propagator just as a precaution in case it take too long as time is short ATM lol but haven't heard good thing about the pineapple chunk about it being unstable so hopefully my cuts will come through lol also how high you have your screen above the pebbles ?
neo12345
Well-Known Member
I'm in the camp of putting the screen in as early as possible, so my screen would probably considered to be quite low!
W
lol also I hears Serapis is better I'm going to get some what's your opinion
BigLittlejohn
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, if you remove leaves you are defoliating, which is why I never understand those pissing contests around here.
neo12345
Well-Known Member
I've no idea about it being better or worse than clay pebbles, I know someone that uses it but couldn't say whether it was an improvement.
I don't use it because I would have had to drill twice as many smaller holes in the smaller tub, and I was bored after 5 mins of drilling the bigger holes!! lol
Quick update clones came dutch passions white widow !!! They came in rock wool shall I transplant them straight into bubbler or into cube to get better structure ?
dr green dre
Well-Known Member
Its ok from what i hear ..supose to be ph perfect or so the shop guys keep telling me ..
@jtdubz ..
90ltr tub £20
16ltr sub tray-£5
Mouse pump £10-20
Media-clay peb-coco- £10
Air pump (depends how many tubs) £20 -50
Plus ..covering ..air lines and stones.. £10 depending on amounts..
hope that helps a little..
Horseman14
New Member
Decent thread that neo been doing a few of these myself lately got 2 bubblers in a 2.4 x1.2 got a scrogg frame 2m by 1.1 , heard great things about these so thought ad give it a go got 4 weeks to go looking good
How do you get on in bubblers any tips ?
dr green dre
Well-Known Member
I likes these brum bubblers and the 20 ltr single black pots ..
you can also run these with straight coco or a coco mix .. I think that helps out with a slight saftey net as it will take longer to dry out than clay pebbles would and makes the plants a lot more stable than in just pebbles .. if using straight coco i would give it some bug treatment in the first 2 feeds as some bags come with bugs mixed in..
If you can start with long roots it will speed things up as it really springs into action when the roots hit the water so the sooner the better ..
I do use them without the mini pump aswell but for first time use id go with a pump with a circle drip ring .
Rinse the pebbles and ph them down if using them..
Less food is needed for the bubblers than it says on the bottle .. depending on your brand you can do more damage than good by trying to over feed in these..
Get a rooting product from the start to give your roots some extra protection and have some product that works on root rot on standby just incase ..
You can use anything that can hold the plants over the tub ..you dont need the 16ltr subtray.. i ve cut holes into pieces of treated wood( untreated wood will mold) and stuck in net pots.. i've seen shops selling metal sheets cut out with holes for the bigger net pots.. anything that can keep then sturdy and lights off the roots your good..
keep the water temps low too.. harder do sometimes but bottles of ice are known to help if your getting high temps.. or res chiller if £is good..
Think i got about 2-3 threads with these in ..some pics are on the first page of this to but feel free too look into any of those older threads..
Hope that helps
DGD
How do I view your older thread and what's your average yeild if you don't mind me asking I'm growing white widow by dutch passion rockwool cubes showing loads of roots just transplant to cube once that filled will put in system or shall I just out it in cube and in system now ?
neo12345
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys real life has kept me really busy the last week.
Glad you are thinking of making the change JT, as Doc Green Dre says the components are fairly cheap and if you can't get these exact components then you could make your own. The bigger the tank the better, as it will keep the temps down and you have more room for the roots to grow. These systems can be easily made at home if you can't get these exact components, and as Dre says you can suspend the plant using a wooden frame with a net pot attached as it will give you the same effect.
Hydro is really simple compared to soil, and you'll have much more control over it. Can't wait to see your setup when it's ready.
Glad you are thinking of making the change JT, as Doc Green Dre says the components are fairly cheap and if you can't get these exact components then you could make your own. The bigger the tank the better, as it will keep the temps down and you have more room for the roots to grow. These systems can be easily made at home if you can't get these exact components, and as Dre says you can suspend the plant using a wooden frame with a net pot attached as it will give you the same effect.
Hydro is really simple compared to soil, and you'll have much more control over it. Can't wait to see your setup when it's ready.