Authenticity of clones/seeds

[racerboy71]

but to answer what i think is the op's real question, so long as both sets of clones come from the same mother, they will both be the same pheno type, which means the way the chromosomes line up with each other, and express themselves..
the only thing that would be different is grow environments, and how they effect a plant, this is called the genotype.. i'm not sure how big of an effect grow environment would have, and to what extreme, but i would think if you had a thin leaved, long flowering sativa, it's still going to be a thin stemmed, long flowering sativa i'd think.. i think maybe potency, and yield, and maybe a bit of flowering time could easily be infuenced by geno though, but i'm no breeder, i just stayed at a holiday inn express last night..

 

[churchhaze]

Despite having a negative reputation, Nirvana seeds is probably the most reliable breeder there is in terms of consistent products. Being around forever really does help in making consistent products imo. I've grown half their strains, and decided that pure power plant is one of the most underrated strains. It became my mainstay for about 4-5 years. I stopped to try female seeds C99 which I keep hearing such great things about, but I have to move before I can try growing it.

I question all these new small seedbanks I see popping up everywhere.

I wish I could find clones around here. Sorry if this doesn't really answer the question..

 

[smoke and coke]

i wish i could comment on clones but the only clones i get are mine so i know what they are, as long as the beans are what they are suppose to be.

for the most part my beans have all been what they were suppose to be. for example i have grown the og#18 and have grown other strains that were crossed with the og#18.
unmistakable flavor that you pick out.

i have bought the same strain from different banks and the outcome has been the same beans from both banks.

i got a freebie stacked kush from the tude and half way into flower i decided to buy a pack of stacked kush from s.o.s. I grew out 1 of the sos beans and it is real close to the one from the tude.

i could come up with many more reason to justify my beans are legit but i wouldn't everyone to think i was trying to convince myself that i have the real deal. a lot of the stuff i have grown has been close to what the breeders description is. ok enough already.

 

[kmog33]

Look closer. There was only one member that liked his comment , a member with the number 33 in his name.

With that said, I have seen his grows and he is no douchebag.. He is someone that understood where he was coming from. Have you need duped? Is the selling process for seeds not up to par for you. Are you upset that. It everyone is feeling like they are at all getting ripped off...

If a bank sends you a wrong seed, tell them. They are not in business to lie. Although dealing with a product that has the same look of everything on your shelves, mistakes may be made. They are more than willing to make right by there wrong doings. Especially when they resend a seized order.

Have faith bro. They are not trying to dupe you.

And i liked the post because of past experiences I've had with clones and clubs and rb had stated exactly why. I also just found the post amusing so i liked it. The last time i went into a club to grab a clone i asked if the budtender was sure the clones were labeled right and she assured me they were....so i ask for the bubba tray and look for one with good roots and find one. Im stoked when i find a well established one because i havent been able to find good bubba in a while since i lost the last one i had. So i pull it out when i get home and theres a little tag on the stem that says nycd... i was pissed and decided that that was the last time i grab a clone from a dispensary.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

 

[4Life2style0]

OH My BAD! Your right. It wasn't 33 likes but it was the members name......Sorry Sir.....So your a Douchebag.......lol ....... its all good, peace , love , an happiness Brother.

Haha... Maybe I am a douchbag. Glad you are still able to find amusement calling people names lol. I gave up on that after high school

 

[GelenaAK420]

Haha... Maybe I am a douchbag. Glad you are still able to find amusement calling people names lol. I gave up on that after high school

So your saying that I never grew up - in a very diplomatic manor....... OK, so now your a "Diplomatic Douchbag"

 

[chairroller]

I'm not saying they are defrauding us on purpose but because there isn't any way for them or us to be certain of what we are growing. I can tell the leaves on some of the Sativa's look different from some of the Indica's.
Ordering a regular flowering seed and getting sent an auto flowering seed is an accident. Imvho.

Yes that's it .. I guess other people in here just didn't get it

 

[chairroller]

I get all my seeds in sealed breeder packs directly from the breeder(most of the time, sometimes I use the tude) I know exactly what they are.



Wrong.

Please get real......

Even if you buy seeds from a known bank, let's say some OG strain, how can you be sure it's the right one .. ?
You never sure

 

[Dr. Who]

Even if you buy seeds from a known bank, let's say some OG strain, how can you be sure it's the right one .. ?
You never sure

As was stated earlier. Quality seed banks sell breeder packs from the breeder....It's up to the breeder to have the proper seeds in the labeled pack. Tude, Herbies, etc. are resellers. They get their packaged seeds direct from the breeder. So then, you get what the breeder puts in them.

Now then, as far as the strains having the same genetic make-up from breeder A to breeder B, with the same named strain. NO, your going to have a differing genetic make-up because the breeders will use different strains at times to attempt to reach the same goals. Even if they use the same strains to get to that goal. What are the genetic differences in those same strains that make up the new one? While basically the "same" strain will be achieved, the genetic make-up (as in height, yield and potency) CAN differ !

Example: Chem Dawg from Cali Connection will be genetically different from Chem Dawg from California Breeders Association and genetically different from my Chem Dawg (Early clone only from SFV himself) that I sure as hell am not going to part with!
Another example: Girl Scout Cookies. As we all should know,,,,,Only 1 breeder makes the REAL GSC, and they aren't coming off it ! So then, every seed breeders "copy" of GSC is not genetically consistent with the real one, not to mention that they are using different genetics between them to attempt to make the copy......

As racerboy said or implied, the financial gains to be made buy people in providing a product that MANY people have a fire under their ass to get their sweaty hands on. Tends to bring out claims that, in the long run, are not true to anything but profit for the one claiming it.

 

[S'Manta]

Thank you to those who got my drift as badly as I stumbled getting my point across.
This is a new industry and at some point there is going to have to be some kind of quality assurance, standards put in place in the next few decades. Breeding strains like so and so's GSC will be patented and would only be available through propagation/cloning for 20 years, like rose hybridizers do.
This may be of no interest to you, lol, but....a rose breeder, Mr Coddington, bred two roses using the same two parents for each breeding and got two different roses. Both beautiful, each has some of each other's traits but are different.
Like our brothers and sisters, we are related, familial dna but different.
Most pot businesses/seed banks do the best they can with this fledgling industry starting to take off. I have been more than satisfied with all of my purchases of my variations on a theme.
Maybe I shouldn't medicate before posting?

 

[Dr. Who]

This may be of no interest to you, lol, but....a rose breeder, Mr Coddington, bred two roses using the same two parents for each breeding and got two different roses. Both beautiful, each has some of each other's traits but are different.
Like our brothers and sisters, we are related, familial dna but different.

This quit true for Cannabis too!!!! When crossing 2 strains you will basically get 3 variations. 1 will tend to the mothers traits, 1 to the fathers and 1 a combination of the 2.....This also will have slight variations in each of those (white pistils in one pheno and pink in another)......This is why the big boy breeders use hundreds of plants to sort out the desired traits of each to go into the result. You must then grow and sort again to get the best of those and begin back crossing to stabilize. The smaller the scale....the less likely you are to reach your intended result and the chances of inferior genetic end results increase....Non stabilized strains tend to "fall back" to the dominate pheno's parentage with successive grows.

 

[S'Manta]

It is a new frontier, I am enjoying watching it creep forward.

 

[S'Manta]

This quit true for Cannabis too!!!! When crossing 2 strains you will basically get 3 variations. 1 will tend to the mothers traits, 1 to the fathers and 1 a combination of the 2.....This also will have slight variations in each of those (white pistils in one pheno and pink in another)......This is why the big boy breeders use hundreds of plants to sort out the desired traits of each to go into the result. You must then grow and sort again to get the best of those and begin back crossing to stabilize. The smaller the scale....the less likely you are to reach your intended result and the chances of inferior genetic end results increase....Non stabilized strains tend to "fall back" to the dominate pheno's parentage with successive grows.

Dr, Who, knowing each seed is unique how do seed banks sell seeds purporting to be a certain strain when it is impossible to do? Are they genetically modifying the seeds to make them exact duplicates? Is that even possible?

 

[Dr. Who]

The seed is only unique to the parent(s) that it came from. When the breeding is completed and the pheno's sorted by trait (mom,dad,combo). The breeders then use the "combo" strain as the base for further refinement. Back crossing with the original mother or father to strengthen the desired trait and to stabilize the strain to how they want it to reproduce those desired traits by it's self. This is now the new strain (and this has been a very quick look at how this works. lots of details and tech terms removed for ease of understanding) is created. Sometimes they can be back crossed several times to get to where the breeder wants it to be.
The new strain will now, when breed with it's own strain, will reproduce it's self just as it is.

These are the stable strains you buy from the Banks. The consistency of the seed to produce the same thing time after time is now acceptable and that's what you get and why the seed that you grew "Black Russian" from is the same as the seed from Black Russian you grew 3 years ago.
Now remember that these stable seeds may have several differing pheno's with in them.....Some may grow more like a sativa and some more like the Indica parent, or have more color to the plant as in purples to reds to oranges then say some of her sister seeds. This is actually rather common and should not be thought of as different strains.

Look at my Avatar. That is a VERY Sativa pheno of Pineapple Express from G13 seeds. It came out of only a cpl of seeds from a lrg order. The "normal PE" will have a more uniform, long budding structure and take about 8-10 weeks to finish Bloom and smell fruity... The one in the picture makes BIG foxtailing baseball size or bigger buds, take 12-13 weeks to finish and smells more sour with fruity highlights.....Big sativa hit and my patients simply love it! Is it the same seed strain? Yes, just a different pheno expression......Not exactly stable? Maybe, but from 60 seeds I only got 2 that do this, so I say yes it is....
LSD from Barney's Farm has 2 distinct pheno's.
SubCool list's several strains that have different pheno's and lists the differences and how they preform!
The point being is that yes. Breeders are producing the same strains that they have for years with the strain name.

Understand better now?

 

[S'Manta]

The seed is only unique to the parent(s) that it came from. When the breeding is completed and the pheno's sorted by trait (mom,dad,combo). The breeders then use the "combo" strain as the base for further refinement. Back crossing with the original mother or father to strengthen the desired trait and to stabilize the strain to how they want it to reproduce those desired traits by it's self. This is now the new strain (and this has been a very quick look at how this works. lots of details and tech terms removed for ease of understanding) is created. Sometime they can be back crossed several times to get to where the breeder wants it to be.
The new strain will now, when breed with it's own strain, will reproduce it's self just as it is.

These are the stable strains you buy from the Banks. The consistency of the seed to produce the same thing time after time is now acceptable and that's what you get and why the seed that you grew "Black Russian" from is the same as the seed from Black Russian you grew 3 years ago.
Now remember that these stable seeds may have several differing pheno's with in them.....Some may grow more like a sativa and some more like the Indica parent, or have more color to the plant as in purples to reds to oranges then say some of her sister seeds. This is actually rather common and should not be thought of as different strains.

Look at my Avatar. That is a VERY Sativa pheno of Pineapple Express from G13 seeds. It came out of only a cpl of seeds from a lrg order. The "normal PE" will have a more uniform, long budding structure and take about 8-10 weeks to finish Bloom and smell fruity... The one in the picture makes BIG foxtailing baseball size or bigger buds, take 12-13 weeks to finish and smells more sour with fruity highlights.....Big sativa hit and my patients simply love it! Is it the same seed strain? Yes, just a different pheno expression......Not exactly stable? Maybe, but from 60 seeds I only got 2 that do this, so I say yes it is....
LSD from Barney's Farm has 2 distinct pheno's.
SubCool list's several strains that have different pheno's and lists the differences and how they preform!
The point being is that yes. Breeders are producing the same strains that they have for years with the strain name.

Understand better now?

Yes, thank you.