Phillips Elite Agro 315w T12 CMH in open fixtures - Impressive!!!

[GroErr]

GroErr - that was about to be my third question - but I think if someone answered the first question - it would help me make the decision to grab 400w mags - with socket adapters ?? And Phillips bulbs

My preference is spend the $500+ IF the 400mag still runs me 400w with a 315w bulb - i Just dont see why i would waste 85ish watts.

Currently my electricity bill for 3kw (flower and veg - dehueys exhaust fans/fans/ water pumps/air conditioners etc) is $700. If I can take that down a notch - I won't have to quit growing with the area I have. Although the woman would probably like that lol

Thanks for the reply. I don't see a button to like your post on my phone..?

I see where you're going with the "wasted" watts. Only thing I can say there is not all watts are created equal. The efficiency and spectrum of these 315w elite agro bulbs would more than make up for the extra overhead imo. That's where you gain with these, the bulbs matched with an efficient ballast can replace a 600w hps which provides more "watts" (hps) but inefficiently. I haven't seen or read enough to judge whether the 860w MH bulbs are as efficient and intense as these elite agro bulbs. But in another conversation on my thread with genuity, he's replacing 2200w of hps with 2300w of CMH/elite agros after he's run these elite agro's a few runs, and expects to gain significant yield from essentially the same wattage. You can look at it as either gaining yield from the same wattage, or in your case, run lower wattage and maintain yield, cooler too so you'd gain some savings there as well. There's also a 315w/4200k elite agro bulb that looks like the cat's ass for vegging you could consider for replacing your veg lights and gain similar efficiencies.

Here's an example based on running 2000w hps in flower, 1000w hps or mh in veg:

Veg: replace 1000w hps/mh with 2x 315w/4200k elite agro's/ballasts
Flower: replace 2000w hps with 3x 315w/3100k elite agro's/ballasts
Sub-Total Wattage Veg: ~760w @120v, ~680w @220/240v
Sub-Total Wattage Flower: ~1140w @120v, ~1020w @220/240v

Total Wattage: ~1900w @120v, ~1700w @220/240v

imo this would yield as well as the 3k you're currently running and reduce your monthly operational bill, not just in pure watts being pulled by the lights, but also in heat management/overhead. If these numbers hold up the wasted watts more than make up for it in the long run, even if you went with 4x of the 3100k's for flowering the pay-back is there...

 

[ttystikk]

@longbeachallstar thanks for the interest! The 860W CDM runs at the advertised wattage, because the ballast just feeds the power the lamp wants to it.

These lamps are designed to run only on magnetic MH thouies, some of the least expensive available watt for watt. Power factor should be in the mid nineties, so your Kill-A-Watt should show well under 950W total.

They're protected, so they're rated for running open with no fixture. VERTICAL ONLY installation, could be an issue for some but for vertical growers like me it's ideal!

More deets;

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmea860.htm

 

[longbeachallstar]

I see where you're going with the "wasted" watts. Only thing I can say there is not all watts are created equal. The efficiency and spectrum of these 315w elite agro bulbs would more than make up for the extra overhead imo. That's where you gain with these, the bulbs matched with an efficient ballast can replace a 600w hps which provides more "watts" (hps) but inefficiently. I haven't seen or read enough to judge whether the 860w MH bulbs are as efficient and intense as these elite agro bulbs. But in another conversation on my thread with genuity, he's replacing 2200w of hps with 2300w of CMH/elite agros after he's run these elite agro's a few runs, and expects to gain significant yield from essentially the same wattage. You can look at it as either gaining yield from the same wattage, or in your case, run lower wattage and maintain yield, cooler too so you'd gain some savings there as well. There's also a 315w/4200k elite agro bulb that looks like the cat's ass for vegging you could consider for replacing your veg lights and gain similar efficiencies.

Here's an example based on running 2000w hps in flower, 1000w hps or mh in veg:

Veg: replace 1000w hps/mh with 2x 315w/4200k elite agro's/ballasts
Flower: replace 2000w hps with 3x 315w/3100k elite agro's/ballasts
Sub-Total Wattage Veg: ~760w @120v, ~680w @220/240v
Sub-Total Wattage Flower: ~1140w @120v, ~1020w @220/240v

Total Wattage: ~1900w @120v, ~1700w @220/240v

imo this would yield as well as the 3k you're currently running and reduce your monthly operational bill, not just in pure watts being pulled by the lights, but also in heat management/overhead. If these numbers hold up the wasted watts more than make up for it in the long run, even if you went with 4x of the 3100k's for flowering the pay-back is there...

I might just do that - until the verdict is out on the digital and its frequencies messing with cable/telephone. At least I'm still saving - ill just replace a 1kw with two 315w and see if ill replace the other with digi's later on.

So... On to that.... You've been pretty helpful this morning.

Specifics - I have to get two 400w metal halide magnetics -

Do you happen to know the specific adapter for the standard mogul socket ? Is there a need for one?

And what's the best type of Phillip light - model wise.

I believe I'm gonna try a vert stadium (3 tier max) or some kind of crude vert 360 with coco dtw on a drip system (i currently run drip with occasional hand watering once a week). With these lights what's the minimum distance from the light that's needed/recommended. Could I assume it still will cover a 3x3 area in those types of setups? I'm new to the vert thing.

Wish you were at the czn forums. I frequent that place more often

Thanks again

 

[longbeachallstar]

@ttystikk - so... Where'd you pick up the case for a buck and a quarter. That's what I'm wondering

I am due to change my super eyes anyways. I figure ill try these if I won't be changing to 2x315 as a experiment.

Cept my current set up is a adjust a wing set up.

@growerr - I would change my veg. But I utilize shelves - I have a 330 and 165? Lumigrow set up for my mother space/transplant space just before flower.

 

[GroErr]

I might just do that - until the verdict is out on the digital and its frequencies messing with cable/telephone. At least I'm still saving - ill just replace a 1kw with two 315w and see if ill replace the other with digi's later on

Specifics - I have to get two 400w metal halide magnetics -

Do you happen to know the specific adapter for the standard mogul socket ? Is there a need for one?

And what's the best type of Phillip light - model wise.

@longbeachallstar the link below is about the least expensive I've seen for the open fixture setup you're considering, as you'll see from tty's post, they also come highly recommended as a good supplier/resource. He has some great details/info and products packaged for this setup for approx. $220 in an open fixture kit.

This link takes you to the info/product page. Only thing he doesn't list there are the elite agro/3100k/930 bulbs, but he does have a little blurb about the 315w elite agro bulbs being available as well. However, he mentions the 315w/3100k bulbs, just not sure if they're All-start or Elite Agro (what I and @genuity are running). For flowering I'd suggest the 3100k Elite Agro/930 series protected bulbs, they're designed to be run vertical and bare, or in a vert/reflector like the kit I bought. I'm guessing (he has no listing/price) that these are a little more than his $220 kit with the all-start bulbs, and the down converter could be more, not sure. Apparently he's very good to work with but may take some time to get a response based on some posts I've seen before. I was in a hurry and hadn't run hps/mh/cmh and wanted the reflector so I paid more but with a very nice package all-in.

With the reflector I have, it easily covers 3x3, I mean well @12-14", based on my first run and some light bleaching on the top layer of fan leaves, I'll be raising it to 16-18" and will likely cover 3.5'x3.5' well at that height. The intensity and penetration of these bulbs is almost incredible, I had some concerns around the claims/specs but after running them this round, the claims may even be conservative imo.

Cheers

 

[ttystikk]

@ttystikk - so... Where'd you pick up the case for a buck and a quarter. That's what I'm wondering

I am due to change my super eyes anyways. I figure ill try these if I won't be changing to 2x315 as a experiment.

Cept my current set up is a adjust a wing set up.

@growerr - I would change my veg. But I utilize shelves - I have a 330 and 165? Lumigrow set up for my mother space/transplant space just before flower.

EBay.

 

[longbeachallstar]

@ttystikk - guess u snatched up the last 6pack good score. I seen a bulb for $75. Better than the Hundo I normally see. But I have no idea if that's with s&h

@GroErr will look at that as soon as I finish this visit with a patient of mine.

Thanks

 

[ttystikk]

@ttystikk - guess u snatched up the last 6pack good score. I seen a bulb for $75. Better than the Hundo I normally see. But I have no idea if that's with s&h

@GroErr will look at that as soon as I finish this visit with a patient of mine.

Thanks

It was a gamble because I didn't know much about them.

It's STILL something of a gamble, because I don't know if my yield went up. The bet is hedged by the fact that the girls are frostier and smell amazing.

 

[GroErr]

It was a gamble because I didn't know much about them.

It's STILL something of a gamble, because I don't know if my yield went up. The bet is hedged by the fact that the girls are frostier and smell amazing.

Yeah, always a gamble with new tech but so far this one's a winner. I haven't been indoor long and tried a bunch of chinese LED's that did shit for flowering, great for vegging/clones/seedling though, so not a total loss. Against my chinese LED's I'll triple the yield so well worth the investment against that, no brainer. I have to say the LED's, even the crap one's were good for frost though. My gage against hps is my son, he's run hps for a few years, he's also blown away with what he's seeing and ready to pull the trigger once he sees the final numbers come in on this test run. He currently runs 4k of hps and we've looked at the numbers in various scenarios, a single run if these hold up to what we're expecting will more than pay back the investment. My room gets cold in winter so I can easily run 2 of these, or 1 of these plus some DIY COB LED's, they throw little heat over even LED's which is a deal breaker/maker imo, If I can run more lights at this high efficiency, that improves my yields right there, my room is limited (without spending a fortune in additional cooling or running too hot) to somewhere around 800w of cool/efficient lights in winter, or 1x 1000w hps. I'm betting I'll get way more out of 800w of high efficiency CMH/LED's than a single 1000w hps.

 

[longbeachallstar]

I tried calling the number listed for the advance link. No answers and I don't like leaving messages.

I just wanted to ask the question regarding any RF interference. That combo looks like a deal in comparison.

I just wrote an email asking if they knew if it interfered with RF and it just dawned on me that I could ask how your experience is going @GroErr - have you happened to try the AM station tests?

 

[longbeachallstar]

Was looking for a "vertical hood" in google search for possibly the 860w. Wasnt what I expected - any thoughts on that search???

 

[GroErr]

I tried calling the number listed for the advance link. No answers and I don't like leaving messages.

I just wanted to ask the question regarding any RF interference. That combo looks like a deal in comparison.

I just wrote an email asking if they knew if it interfered with RF and it just dawned on me that I could ask how your experience is going @GroErr - have you happened to try the AM station tests?

Maybe send them an email, may get faster response. Haven't tried that, don't listen to AM - lol I have a houseful of wired and wireless equipment though, sensors, cameras, computers, TV, PS3, stereo's, guitars/amps, have never noticed any interference with any of those.

Was looking for a "vertical hood" in google search for possibly the 860w. Wasnt what I expected - any thoughts on that search???

Try this search on e-bay, some options there. I used vertical reflector, a lot of them come up as parabolic reflectors, vertical socket.

 

[longbeachallstar]

@lol groerr - have you tried searching "vertical hood" on google? Try it- it was just funny !!

 

[GroErr]

@lol groerr - have you tried searching "vertical hood" on google? Try it- it was just funny !!

lamo, I've never seen a search in google pop that up, right at the top of the search too, had never heard the term used for that, that's f'n hilarious

 

[longbeachallstar]

lamo, I've never seen a search in google pop that up, right at the top of the search too, had never heard the term used for that, that's f'n hilarious

I think those vertical hoods are good for growing mushroom tips!!! Lol

 

[longbeachallstar]

Okay. I'm pullin the trigger this weekend. 3 units to replace 2k - probably should be 4 but 3 is what I can afford a this time.

I got some good info from the tech guy.

From what I gather. It's as legit as any other vendor selling these cmh fixtures. And I believe they've worked with Phillips on the RD of these bulbs.

The extra $200-400 you're paying the other vendors are for them wiring it for you and sticking a cover on the ballast with their name on it and/or for a hood.

If I can put something up here for a grow ill try. But ill post a grow at cannazon with the lights for sure as I'm there a lot more. But I do appreciate you fellas at Riu helping me out with some info.

The line up:
OG kush (LB hood cut) 4x4 area
Jaws Alien matter 2x4 area
Platinum cookies 2x2 area
Bodhi's Pine soul 2x2 area

1- 315w cmh Light really should be a 3x3 area for flowering. I'm hoping my adjust a wings will help in that department. And yes. Tech dude said lights are good to go horizontally.

Wish me luck

 

[GroErr]

Okay. I'm pullin the trigger this weekend. 3 units to replace 2k - probably should be 4 but 3 is what I can afford a this time.

I got some good info from the tech guy.

From what I gather. It's as legit as any other vendor selling these cmh fixtures. And I believe they've worked with Phillips on the RD of these bulbs.

The extra $200-400 you're paying the other vendors are for them wiring it for you and sticking a cover on the ballast with their name on it and/or for a hood.

If I can put something up here for a grow ill try. But ill post a grow at cannazon with the lights for sure as I'm there a lot more. But I do appreciate you fellas at Riu helping me out with some info.

The line up:
OG kush (LB hood cut) 4x4 area
Jaws Alien matter 2x4 area
Platinum cookies 2x2 area
Bodhi's Pine soul 2x2 area

1- 315w cmh Light really should be a 3x3 area for flowering. I'm hoping my adjust a wings will help in that department. And yes. Tech dude said lights are good to go horizontally.

Wish me luck

Good to hear and good luck with that grow, 3 of them should be pretty damn close to that 2k of hps, the extra efficiency should make up for it to match the weight of 2k. 4 definitely if you can swing it down the road. But 3 with the right config/footprint should pull some nice bud.

I'm thinking you can save in the $200 range diy for sure, I'll likely diy another when I can get a 240v circuit in there, run the Ceramatek ballasts and bare to see how that behaves in comparison to the hooded setup. In the winter I can run 2 of these easy and still maintain under 84F. Been running 80-84F this round and they seem to like that temp range, having to water the JTR every 2 days now with maybe 10-12 days left. Those look like some nice strains you have going

 

[Bubbagineer]

My goodness, y'all have been busy lol. All good stuff to

I'm headed for an 8-10 KW grow. Not sure of the mix just yet, but I'm thinking (2) 10'x10' rooms, each lit w/ (4) 860w CMH & (5)-(6) 315w CMH. I bought an OG vertical bulb hood that I like for the 860w bulbs, but the cost point is high @ $250/fixture. The mag ballast is only $100, I would like to stay in the same range for a reflector. A question if y'all don't mind:

Can the Phillips 860w CMH be run in a vertical bulb, open fixture? Ummm safely that is....

I blew one of two bulbs that I bought running it on 120.... oops. Looked great for awhile though. Gonna have to hire an electrician I reckon.

Here's a little somethin from my last grow.

 

[GroErr]

My goodness, y'all have been busy lol. All good stuff to

I'm headed for an 8-10 KW grow. Not sure of the mix just yet, but I'm thinking (2) 10'x10' rooms, each lit w/ (4) 860w CMH & (5)-(6) 315w CMH. I bought an OG vertical bulb hood that I like for the 860w bulbs, but the cost point is high @ $250/fixture. The mag ballast is only $100, I would like to stay in the same range for a reflector. A question if y'all don't mind:

Can the Phillips 860w CMH be run in a vertical bulb, open fixture? Ummm safely that is....

I blew one of two bulbs that I bought running it on 120.... oops. Looked great for awhile though. Gonna have to hire an electrician I reckon.

Here's a little somethin from my last grow.

Ha, nice "little something" you got off that run
Don't know much on the 860w, never researched those. But that link on post 125 above for Advanced Tech may have some info, or you could inquire through him, he's apparently pretty knowledgeable and won't sell you something just to get the sale.

That's sounding like quite the setup you have planned. At the end of my run and just about to pull the JTR plant, I can vouch for the Elite Agro 315w CMH 930 bulb for flowering, it did a great job and finished about a week earlier than last run.

 

[Bubbagineer]

Agreed. I didn't want to mention the faster finish time over LEDs until I had a few runs to compare, which I have now. Definetly finishes about a week early on two separate strains. Pretty confident in that statement. No question on the quality and yield improvement though.