Surprise! Leftist Minimum Wage Policy Backfires in Seattle Suburb

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
food stamps do come with training and access to many tools to increase your marketability, and if the war on poverty were to end tonight, the poverty rate would double tomorrow.

about 15 million more americans would find themselves in poverty tomorrow if we ended the program tonight.

paying a livable wage to full time workers is not cradle to grave dependency.

you are dumb and racist.
You think revamping the system to require skills training is the same as ending welfare overnight? Or is that the strawman you need to argue against so you can make any sense at all. Calling me dumb and racist because you can't make a coherent honest argument is the cherry on top.

How much has been spent on this "war", how many governmental departments are created to deal with welfare, and is the best use of resources?

Seriously, do you believe we are doing it right? why?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Judging by your username, i reckon you were born in 1966, which makes you old enough to have a head full of lies and misconceptions about the world of today.

You didn't grow up where i did, when i did, and you seem to think things are still "like in the old days," which they aren't, and haven't been for quite some time.


Not "me," as many of us as possible. It would be ridiculous for me to interpret the facts as a conspiracy to keep "me" down, as if i could ever be so important...
the only reason i can think of for why you'd default to that assumption, is that you've never experienced the parts of reality involving being unable to control other people's decisions. In other words: privileged, and unaware that quite a lot of people get fucked over by the system (which is made of other people), through no fault of their own, due to those people in those systems making choices i can't control, creating conditions i can't escape, and removing choices that would/may otherwise be available.

No one else determines what i choose, but neither do i determine what others choose, and lots of those others do indeed make choices which take away the potential for me to choose what i would, if not for interference and intervention from others.

You seem to think everyone can just "make life whatever they want it to be" without any obstruction at all.

How ridiculous.
If you think your generation has it bad, wait until your kids are of age and we are off the dollar as the world's currency.

After manufacturing was destroyed throughout the world during WWII we had a period in the country where we made more shit than we used. You could lean on a broom and put your kids through college for decades here, no longer. We as people have not adjusted to this truth.

We are becoming a nation of servers and debtors. I'm not a fan.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
In short I believe people at all economic levels make decisions that ultimately decide where they will end up.
Can you list some examples of these decisions?
For example, what sorts of decisions are broadly confronted by those trying to move from the lowest quintile to the 4th quintile?
And what examples of decisions are made by those moving from the 3rd to the 2nd? Are they the same as the prior? Looking closer, your statement is rather subjective. Are you talking about economic decisions exclusively? Or are you including urination and sleeping as parts of these decisions?


I think of income in terms of a gaussian distribution.
And is it right-skewed? GINI coefficient implies it is.

Fussing with the lower data sets just modifies the median value not the shape of the curve.
Median and Mean are different. You do recognize that fact, correct? Or do you honestly believe increasing the lower income won't shift the median? How does that work?
Would you be surprised to find other Nations with bimodal distributions?


Income inequality won’t be fixed with an infusion of cash to those at the bottom. Those in the top 5% percent have the skills and technique to compete, those at the bottom don’t. Pretty simple.
Way too simple, actually. An infusion of cash, by definition, would reduce income inequality. Or do you use some other numeraire to measure income besides "national currency"?
Here's a really dumb example to explain it:
A has income of $10, B has income of $100,
relative income ratio A/B = 10%
Give each an 'injection' of $20.
$30/$120 = 25%


Great Googly Moogly! They each got serviced for $20 a pop, and look at that income inequality drop!
But of course, in the long run, that money will siphon its way up the cone, creating a larger inequality in the end, ceteris paribus.
Hence, taxes and subsidy thresholds.
That was the whole idea behind the Negative Income Tax. To create that buffer which encourages employment-seeking behaviour, while preventing the inevitable negative conditions resulting from frictional or structural unemployment. It is a far more ideal automatic stabilizer over the schemes we currently employ.

And if the future is as corrosive as what I am seeing, there is going to be some need for that type of scheme if the goal is to sustain this socio-economic process we currently exist in. Strangely, it would probably be cheaper to do that instead of propping up a welfare bureaucracy susceptible to fraud in the first place.
Imagine... a NAIRU of 25% :lol:
Technocrat Utopia or Neo-Liberal nightmare?


That or redefine full-time as 20-30 hrs/week to spread the work.
Or invent a lot of classy jobs like "Official assistant pylon observer".
Meanwhile, in France...
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
If you think your generation has it bad, wait until your kids are of age and we are off the dollar as the world's currency.

After manufacturing was destroyed throughout the world during WWII we had a period in the country where we made more shit than we used. You could lean on a broom and put your kids through college for decades here, no longer. We as people have not adjusted to this truth.

We are becoming a nation of servers and debtors. I'm not a fan.
Kids? I'll never have such a privilege. I'll be the end of my lineage.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Judging by your username, i reckon you were born in 1966, which makes you old enough to have a head full of lies and misconceptions about the world of today.

You didn't grow up where i did, when i did, and you seem to think things are still "like in the old days," which they aren't, and haven't been for quite some time.


Not "me," as many of us as possible. It would be ridiculous for me to interpret the facts as a conspiracy to keep "me" down, as if i could ever be so important...
the only reason i can think of for why you'd default to that assumption, is that you've never experienced the parts of reality involving being unable to control other people's decisions. In other words: privileged, and unaware that quite a lot of people get fucked over by the system (which is made of other people), through no fault of their own, due to those people in those systems making choices i can't control, creating conditions i can't escape, and removing choices that would/may otherwise be available.

No one else determines what i choose, but neither do i determine what others choose, and lots of those others do indeed make choices which take away the potential for me to choose what i would, if not for interference and intervention from others.

You seem to think everyone can just "make life whatever they want it to be" without any obstruction at all.

How ridiculous.
You made a lot of assumptions. None of them are true. 1966 is an ADDRESS, not a date. " you old enough to have a head full of lies and misconceptions about the world of today". Yes, I died a century ago and never experienced today. (That would be sarcasm) You assume that "the only reason i can think of for why you'd default to that assumption," says anything more than "I know nothing else, so my assumptions must be correct". You seem to think I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. You are wrong. You wish to believe that your status in life is determined by others. Because you wish to believe this, it will become true. Others do not choose to believe this. They will determine what their status will be. And they will determine what YOUR status will be.
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
You made a lot of assumptions. None of them are true. 1966 is an ADDRESS, not a date. " you old enough to have a head full of lies and misconceptions about the world of today". Yes, I died a century ago and never experienced today. (That would be sarcasm) You assume that "the only reason i can think of for why you'd default to that assumption," says anything more than "I know nothing else, so my assumptions must be correct". You seem to think I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. You are wrong. You wish to believe that your status in life is determined by others. Because you wish to believe this, it will become true. Others do not choose to believe this. They will determine what their status will be. And they will determine what YOUR status will be.
No... i know what an assumption is, and i know what a wild guess is, and when i knowingly make either, based on limited and abstract information, i don't expect to be "right."

And there's no need for the hyperbole of "silver spoon." Not all privilege is equal. Just because from my perspective you are most likely "privileged," that doesn't mean i think you were "born rich." Not being overwhelmingly negatively impacted by other people's decisions, is something i define as "privilege," which should more appropriately be described as a right. But too many people apparently believe their "rights" (actually privileges) extend beyond the point where mine begin, and so they act accordingly, thereby subsequently impinging my rights, and impacting my environment, of which i and everyone else, are products.

You're just lucky, that's all. Lucky is a privilege, not a right. You apparently haven't been imposed upon by other people's choices, like i have, which means you didn't encounter the opportunity to learn that in the real world, you can't just "wish it will be" and magically manifest your preferred reality. In the real world, you kinda just have to work with the hand you're dealt, and unless you get a workable hand, you either bluff like a boss, or you fold, or you lose it all. Not everyone is allowed the opportunity to control their environment sufficiently, to make it conducive to the progress they desire. When i see people who DO and Have had that opportunity, belittling those who have had that opportunity prevented by others, i feel disgusted by it.

I didn't choose to be what and where i am... but i did my best to choose not to be something and somewhere worse.

Some people are not allowed "the best choices," and can only work with "least evils."

I've done the best i could with the conditions both existing prior to my birth, and created by others' choices... but it wasn't nearly enough.

If you're lucky, you'll never know how it feels to not be good enough to overcome problems you didn't choose, and did your best to avoid, and did your best to resolve, when you couldn't avoid them.

Either way, i know what it means to suffer and to be deprived. If you don't, i wouldn't expect you to understand my position, even if i could give the perfect explanation of it.

"Not all ideas are operating on the same footing."
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
You wish to believe that your status in life is determined by others. Because you wish to believe this, it will become true. Others do not choose to believe this. They will determine what their status will be. And they will determine what YOUR status will be.
This is reality. This is also why reasonevangelist is correct, It's his reality. He just doesn't take ownership of it. It's the other guys fault.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Once again, you assume I had privileges you did not. "Just because from my perspective you are most likely privileged,". If that makes you feel better about your life, fine. I don't really care if you are content to wallow in self pity. No one is belittling you, but yourself.
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
This is reality. This is also why reasonevangelist is correct, It's his reality. He just doesn't take ownership of it. It's the other guys fault.
I don't make other people's choices, and as far as i can tell, no one lives in an isolated microcosm. Maybe privileged people live in an isolated microcosm, or can "simply choose" to do so when it's convenient for them.

I've noticed that some people who've been lucky, tend to give themselves absolute credit, while refusing to acknowledge that anyone else helped or had anything to do with it. I simply didn't receive the opportunities that those who did, often take for granted.

If you've attained what you wanted, chances are, it's either because other people allowed you, or couldn't stop you from doing so. I've met very few people in my life, who would allow me to encounter the chance to make the choices i wanted, and far too many who chose, for whatever reasons, to impede my intended path.

I could oversimplify it as "people didn't want me to succeed, so they sabotaged me to ensure i couldn't," but i honestly don't think everyone who interfered was doing so intentionally. I think the problem is more that too many people are completely inconsiderate of how their actions impact the lives of others... but some people deliberately cause problems for those they dislike, and lots of people's judgment is based on completely irrational and fallacious criteria.

"Wish in one hand, shit in the other; tell me which fills up first."

It has nothing to do with the absurd notion that everything is a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that "if you think it, it will become true."

I've thought and wished endlessly for countless things, and did anything i thought i could do, to physically manifest them, and none of them ever became true. Apparently, "life is what you make it" is a false absolutism. Life is a combination of many factors, and more of them are beyond control, than within it. There are 7 billion other people in the world competing for resources. There are people who already "have money to make money," and many of them use that money to disrupt and stifle the competition, so that they can take as much of "the pie" for themselves, as possible, regardless of who has to go without, because of it.

For people like me, "life is what you make it" is actually more appropriately stated as "life is what you make of it..." in that your only real option is to modify your own perception in such a way that makes it seem better than it actually is, because you can't actually change what prevents it from being the better you can imagine it could be.

Too many people expect others like me to be content with a life of onerous servitude, with no possibility for prosperity... but i can't. So i'll be glad when it's over.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I don't make other people's choices, and as far as i can tell, no one lives in an isolated microcosm. Maybe privileged people live in an isolated microcosm, or can "simply choose" to do so when it's convenient for them.

I've noticed that some people who've been lucky, tend to give themselves absolute credit, while refusing to acknowledge that anyone else helped or had anything to do with it. I simply didn't receive the opportunities that those who did, often take for granted.

If you've attained what you wanted, chances are, it's either because other people allowed you, or couldn't stop you from doing so. I've met very few people in my life, who would allow me to encounter the chance to make the choices i wanted, and far too many who chose, for whatever reasons, to impede my intended path.

I could oversimplify it as "people didn't want me to succeed, so they sabotaged me to ensure i couldn't," but i honestly don't think everyone who interfered was doing so intentionally. I think the problem is more that too many people are completely inconsiderate of how their actions impact the lives of others... but some people deliberately cause problems for those they dislike, and lots of people's judgment is based on completely irrational and fallacious criteria.

"Wish in one hand, shit in the other; tell me which fills up first."

It has nothing to do with the absurd notion that everything is a self-fulfilling prophecy, in that "if you think it, it will become true."

I've thought and wished endlessly for countless things, and did anything i thought i could do, to physically manifest them, and none of them ever became true. Apparently, "life is what you make it" is a false absolutism. Life is a combination of many factors, and more of them are beyond control, than within it. There are 7 billion other people in the world competing for resources. There are people who already "have money to make money," and many of them use that money to disrupt and stifle the competition, so that they can take as much of "the pie" for themselves, as possible, regardless of who has to go without, because of it.

For people like me, "life is what you make it" is actually more appropriately stated as "life is what you make of it..." in that your only real option is to modify your own perception in such a way that makes it seem better than it actually is, because you can't actually change what prevents it from being the better you can imagine it could be.

Too many people expect others like me to be content with a life of onerous servitude, with no possibility for prosperity... but i can't. So i'll be glad when it's over.
I'm really sorry you feel that way.

We all have close to 20/20 hindsight, are you saying there has been no choices you could have made differently that would have given you a different outcome?

I do understand your gist. If I dropped out of highschool because I needed to help support my siblings, it's different than dropping out because "school sucks".

I do believe our environment that we grow in has more to do with anything else as far as our success and happiness is concerned, but it's not shackles and to treat it as so will make it so.

Unrelated; I've worked with people who barely scrape by but are loving life and I've met some miserable silver spooners. Change how you think, change who you are.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
I've noticed that some people who've been unsuccessful, tend to blame others. "I've thought and wished endlessly for countless things, and did anything i thought i could do, to physically manifest them, and none of them ever became true." It seems unlikely you have been totally unable to anything in your entire life. Billions of others have. How is it that you are such a hopeless failure? Could it be that you don't take responsibility for your own life?
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
I've noticed that some people who've been unsuccessful, tend to blame others. "I've thought and wished endlessly for countless things, and did anything i thought i could do, to physically manifest them, and none of them ever became true." It seems unlikely you have been totally unable to anything in your entire life. Billions of others have. How is it that you are such a hopeless failure? Could it be that you don't take responsibility for your own life?
Like i said, due to countless different factors, i simply wasn't good enough (or privileged enough) to overcome my unfavorable circumstances.

What's bigger: me, or the rest of the world?

I should never have been conceived. I'm like a plant that could have been awesome, but was grown wrong by fantastically idealistic people who had never grown a plant before. At some point, they realized it was a mistake, but i already existed, so we all tried to make the best of it. They tried to learn how to cultivate a person, and i tried to grow as well as i could, in my unfavorable environments, but i was never free from obstruction, and never given what i needed, so i never became healthy enough to survive without help. I was close a few times, but i could never manage to manifest more energy than was required to spend. Plus, too many other people created arbitrary problems for me, despite my lifelong non-aggression principle adherence. I tried to live by the golden rule, but constantly encountered people who took advantage of my lack of aggression. I always hoped i'd find at least a small group of people with mindsets and outlooks compatible with my own, but it never happened. "We" are apparently quite a rare breed; a dying breed. Eventually, the energy deficit and wear and tear i had accumulated, but without being able to acquire enough resources to correct it, became too much. I have a completely different understanding of what "life" is, than most people. Most people are living in a perpetual delusion; i have discarded mine, in favor of allowing myself to perceive actual realities. I'm suspicious of anything that seems to go my way, because no matter what i do, someone else always manages to ruin it for me, any time i try to build anything worth building. "You only get what you can take; you only keep what you can protect." I can't protect anything i might build, so i should never build anything. If i try, it will inevitably be ruined by someone else, because i can't protect it. I know it must seem hard to believe, but it's possible to be great at avoiding bad decisions and bad situations, and still get fucked over. "That's life."

People don't want peace and love and cooperative prosperity; they want to kill each other and take the whole pie for themselves.

Having figured out so much of what's wrong with the world, and the people in it, and having spent so much energy to try to express to others (because i'd need their help, can't fix the world by myself), the ideas that need to be embraced, in order for all that's wrong to actually begin changing... i don't consider myself a "failure" at all, though superficial materialists love to paint me that way.

I didn't fail the world; the world failed me. And i'm not the only one.

Either way, i believe that when my life expires, there will be nothing else, and no more "me," and hence, i will no longer be a part of this world, so from here on out, i only half care what happens to it, because i realized that none of the important stuff will change in my lifetime. If those who think they'll live forever, want to kill each other and everyone else... fine. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, i intend to spend most of the remainder of my life energy in pursuit of cannabis, because that is the only thing other than my dog, that makes me want to remain alive. And quite often, i consider that both of those factors combined, are still insufficient. I just don't want to leave my dog hangin' like that.
 

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT

Well-Known Member
Like i said, due to countless different factors, i simply wasn't good enough (or privileged enough) to overcome my unfavorable circumstances.

What's bigger: me, or the rest of the world?

I should never have been conceived. I'm like a plant that could have been awesome, but was grown wrong by fantastically idealistic people who had never grown a plant before. At some point, they realized it was a mistake, but i already existed, so we all tried to make the best of it. They tried to learn how to cultivate a person, and i tried to grow as well as i could, in my unfavorable environments, but i was never free from obstruction, and never given what i needed, so i never became healthy enough to survive without help. I was close a few times, but i could never manage to manifest more energy than was required to spend. Plus, too many other people created arbitrary problems for me, despite my lifelong non-aggression principle adherence. I tried to live by the golden rule, but constantly encountered people who took advantage of my lack of aggression. I always hoped i'd find at least a small group of people with mindsets and outlooks compatible with my own, but it never happened. "We" are apparently quite a rare breed; a dying breed. Eventually, the energy deficit and wear and tear i had accumulated, but without being able to acquire enough resources to correct it, became too much. I have a completely different understanding of what "life" is, than most people. Most people are living in a perpetual delusion; i have discarded mine, in favor of allowing myself to perceive actual realities. I'm suspicious of anything that seems to go my way, because no matter what i do, someone else always manages to ruin it for me, any time i try to build anything worth building. "You only get what you can take; you only keep what you can protect." I can't protect anything i might build, so i should never build anything. If i try, it will inevitably be ruined by someone else, because i can't protect it. I know it must seem hard to believe, but it's possible to be great at avoiding bad decisions and bad situations, and still get fucked over. "That's life."

People don't want peace and love and cooperative prosperity; they want to kill each other and take the whole pie for themselves.

Having figured out so much of what's wrong with the world, and the people in it, and having spent so much energy to try to express to others (because i'd need their help, can't fix the world by myself), the ideas that need to be embraced, in order for all that's wrong to actually begin changing... i don't consider myself a "failure" at all, though superficial materialists love to paint me that way.

I didn't fail the world; the world failed me. And i'm not the only one.

Either way, i believe that when my life expires, there will be nothing else, and no more "me," and hence, i will no longer be a part of this world, so from here on out, i only half care what happens to it, because i realized that none of the important stuff will change in my lifetime. If those who think they'll live forever, want to kill each other and everyone else... fine. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, i intend to spend most of the remainder of my life energy in pursuit of cannabis, because that is the only thing other than my dog, that makes me want to remain alive. And quite often, i consider that both of those factors combined, are still insufficient. I just don't want to leave my dog hangin' like that.
The worst thing you can give any nigga or bitch is rejection
You know hoes love attention
You ain't got to have a pussy to be a ho
A ho is somebody that just want attention from another man
They got a lot of hoes with dicks, outchea
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
I'm really sorry you feel that way.

We all have close to 20/20 hindsight, are you saying there has been no choices you could have made differently that would have given you a different outcome?

I do understand your gist. If I dropped out of highschool because I needed to help support my siblings, it's different than dropping out because "school sucks".

I do believe our environment that we grow in has more to do with anything else as far as our success and happiness is concerned, but it's not shackles and to treat it as so will make it so.

Unrelated; I've worked with people who barely scrape by but are loving life and I've met some miserable silver spooners. Change how you think, change who you are.
The part that makes me bitter is that most of the time, i saw problems coming "miles away," and still couldn't avoid them, due to my lack of control of my circumstances. So i started avoiding any situation that required me to accept someone else controlling it. I learned not to hope, but to expect negative outcomes, unless i can control the relevant factors myself (which means protecting processes from outside interference, which i haven't really been able to do...)

Of course, different choices would most likely have "different" outcomes, but different how? Who can say? Maybe this is as good as it was ever going to be? Who knows what would or might have happened, if i'd done anything differently. I might have already died, due to different choices. In fact, for the last several years, i could have "made a different choice" at any moment, and would not be here now (to give trolls a prompt and an outlet for their hostility...). I often regret not making that other choice. There was never any "missed opportunity" or "big break" that i simply failed to seize... there was never any of that. There was just me doing the best i could to survive, hoping i'd be able to stay afloat long enough to encounter a real opportunity... but it never happened. There was nothing to seize. I'm convinced just not existing at all, must be far better than the one i'm stuck with. But i'm also convinced that if i had control of my own life, environment and circumstances, i would most likely be content... because i've learned not to need or want much.

As they say, "the loser absorbs the loss."

Absorbed losses accumulate until whatever remained is depleted. I lost too much of myself along the way, have not much left to give, and have been essentially empty, for a long time.

I try to remember stuff like what Bill Hicks said: "it's just a ride..."
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Like i said, due to countless different factors, i simply wasn't good enough (or privileged enough) to overcome my unfavorable circumstances.

What's bigger: me, or the rest of the world?

I should never have been conceived. I'm like a plant that could have been awesome, but was grown wrong by fantastically idealistic people who had never grown a plant before. At some point, they realized it was a mistake, but i already existed, so we all tried to make the best of it. They tried to learn how to cultivate a person, and i tried to grow as well as i could, in my unfavorable environments, but i was never free from obstruction, and never given what i needed, so i never became healthy enough to survive without help. I was close a few times, but i could never manage to manifest more energy than was required to spend. Plus, too many other people created arbitrary problems for me, despite my lifelong non-aggression principle adherence. I tried to live by the golden rule, but constantly encountered people who took advantage of my lack of aggression. I always hoped i'd find at least a small group of people with mindsets and outlooks compatible with my own, but it never happened. "We" are apparently quite a rare breed; a dying breed. Eventually, the energy deficit and wear and tear i had accumulated, but without being able to acquire enough resources to correct it, became too much. I have a completely different understanding of what "life" is, than most people. Most people are living in a perpetual delusion; i have discarded mine, in favor of allowing myself to perceive actual realities. I'm suspicious of anything that seems to go my way, because no matter what i do, someone else always manages to ruin it for me, any time i try to build anything worth building. "You only get what you can take; you only keep what you can protect." I can't protect anything i might build, so i should never build anything. If i try, it will inevitably be ruined by someone else, because i can't protect it. I know it must seem hard to believe, but it's possible to be great at avoiding bad decisions and bad situations, and still get fucked over. "That's life."

People don't want peace and love and cooperative prosperity; they want to kill each other and take the whole pie for themselves.

Having figured out so much of what's wrong with the world, and the people in it, and having spent so much energy to try to express to others (because i'd need their help, can't fix the world by myself), the ideas that need to be embraced, in order for all that's wrong to actually begin changing... i don't consider myself a "failure" at all, though superficial materialists love to paint me that way.

I didn't fail the world; the world failed me. And i'm not the only one.

Either way, i believe that when my life expires, there will be nothing else, and no more "me," and hence, i will no longer be a part of this world, so from here on out, i only half care what happens to it, because i realized that none of the important stuff will change in my lifetime. If those who think they'll live forever, want to kill each other and everyone else... fine. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, i intend to spend most of the remainder of my life energy in pursuit of cannabis, because that is the only thing other than my dog, that makes me want to remain alive. And quite often, i consider that both of those factors combined, are still insufficient. I just don't want to leave my dog hangin' like that.
Wow, you really feel sorry for yourself. Millions of children starve to death every year, but I guess that just pales in comparison to the trials you've had. "i was never free from obstruction, and never given what i needed, so i never became healthy enough to survive without help. I was close a few times, but i could never manage to manifest more energy than was required to spend." In other words, you gave up. Even non "superficial materialists" can see you're a failure. And, clearly, even you see it.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
***"hoping i'd be able to stay afloat long enough to encounter a real opportunity"^^^ I see. You did the least you could get away with, waiting for "the great opportunity" to fall out of the sky. At least you realize what a loser you are, but fool yourself into believing everyone else had some "privilege" you didn't have.
 
Top