Additives for ph control

[Extacie]

What are some additives to help control ph?

Oyster shell vs dolomite lime?

I've been using powdered dolomite lime but guy at hydro store was telling me that is bad, especially for indoor grows. Was saying it could cause fermitation and lots of issues - nutrient related and otherwise.
He said oyster shell powder is better.

Any advice? I've also read earthworm castings help out quite a bit.

 

[WazzaX]

how about PH down and.... wait for it......PH up

 

[vostok]

Controlling Ph of the medium is always a tricky affair, if you need to adjust the soil...you are screwed from day one...coco and DWC guys its a breeze with many commercial preparations available ...should you be in soils ...pot up to a correct ph and quality soil and add 30% perlite and water well...check the ph of your water with you ph tool or use pool strips..$5.00 from your drugstore

 

[az2000]

I've been using powdered dolomite lime but guy at hydro store was telling me that is bad, especially for indoor grows. Was saying it could cause fermitation and lots of issues - nutrient related and otherwise.
He said oyster shell powder is better.

The only thing I can equate to "fermintation" is that carbon dioxide is produced as calcium carbonate (dolomite) breaks down to calcium. But, oyster shell is calcium carbonate too.

Oyster shell might be desirable for other reasons. For example, it's low on magnesium. (<<link). That might be desirable under some condition where magnesium comes from other sources. Looks like it has trace minerals dolomite doesn't. I can see how organic people might value that and supply Mg differently.

You should ask him for an explanation.

 

[torontoke]

Vinegar does my ph down
Baking soda does ph up.

The guy at the hydro store earns a paycheque by selling you things i always take everything they say with a grain of salt.

 

[tyson53]

I buy 50# bags of crushed oyster shells at Tractor Supply....and ammend my soil with it....I also add it to my old soil pile composting for next year...

and for PH up or down... I use citric acid for down...its used to make pickels..its food grade...same stuff that makes them soft candies sour...get at wal mart for 2.50 for 8 oz's been working good so far...

And for PH up I use potassium bicarbonate...its actually same as green cure..but way cheaper in bulk...I get a pound for 7.00 at the wine brewing shop...

I used them in my water barrel outside to PH the feed water...it stays pretty stable..my well water is 55ppm mostly calcium so its sorta a good buffer

 

[Extacie]

how about PH down and.... wait for it......PH up

I use both.... But I feel like that is not how it should be. True farmers never do that. When cannabis is legalized do you think that farmers are going to be Ph'ing water and nutrients for 2,000 acre plots? My main reason for asking is I would like to have a buffer in case say my Ph meter is off.

 

[Extacie]

Controlling Ph of the medium is always a tricky affair, if you need to adjust the soil...you are screwed from day one...coco and DWC guys its a breeze with many commercial preparations available ...should you be in soils ...pot up to a correct ph and quality soil and add 30% perlite and water well...check the ph of your water with you ph tool or use pool strips..$5.00 from your drugstore

Thanks bro!
That is something I was wondering... I should probably be Ph'ing my water to, huh? Our tap is like 7.4 on average.

The only thing I can equate to "fermintation" is that carbon dioxide is produced as calcium carbonate (dolomite) breaks down to calcium. But, oyster shell is calcium carbonate too.

Oyster shell might be desirable for other reasons. For example, it's low on magnesium. (<<link). That might be desirable under some condition where magnesium comes from other sources. Looks like it has trace minerals dolomite doesn't. I can see how organic people might value that and supply Mg differently.

You should ask him for an explanation.

Thank you, I will ask him next time I see him. I was hoping to find some info online as far as what he was saying, but wasn't having much luck. He was saying his first grow went terrible because of adding lime and it locked out a bunch of nutrients because of fermitation. Said that his Ph was on and everything else was right but the plants were showing all kinds of deficiencies and yield was low.
I talked to another grower who I know well and trust. She said that if you want to go from start to finish without PH'ing water/nutes, use dolomite lime for the immediate effects and oyster shell for the long term effects, so ultimately she suggested to amend both in the soil mix.

Vinegar does my ph down
Baking soda does ph up.

The guy at the hydro store earns a paycheque by selling you things i always take everything they say with a grain of salt.

Lol true that I couldn't agree more!
This dude actually seems to try to help out though and doesnt seem to try to push products too much. He was telling me I would be better off mixing my own soil instead of buying the expensive ass soil at the store. He was giving my his recipie where he buys majority of the stuff at home depot. Overall he has been one of the less pushy people, but I agree that majority of them try to shove products down your throat and I take most of what they say with a grain of salt as you say. I always research what they say to come to my own conclusion first before acting on it.

I buy 50# bags of crushed oyster shells at Tractor Supply....and ammend my soil with it....I also add it to my old soil pile composting for next year...

and for PH up or down... I use citric acid for down...its used to make pickels..its food grade...same stuff that makes them soft candies sour...get at wal mart for 2.50 for 8 oz's been working good so far...

And for PH up I use potassium bicarbonate...its actually same as green cure..but way cheaper in bulk...I get a pound for 7.00 at the wine brewing shop...

I used them in my water barrel outside to PH the feed water...it stays pretty stable..my well water is 55ppm mostly calcium so its sorta a good buffer

That's whats up thanks homie. That sounds like the way to go for sure. Potassium bicarbonate and potassium silicate is the main ingredient in the PH up from the store to. I will def. have to start doing that.. I assume the 50# bags at the tractor supply store is no different than what is sold at the hydro store other than the price?

 

[mr.schroederific]

I use both.... But I feel like that is not how it should be. True farmers never do that. When cannabis is legalized do you think that farmers are going to be Ph'ing water and nutrients for 2,000 acre plots? My main reason for asking is I would like to have a buffer in case say my Ph meter is off.

If farmers could grow indoors, they would.

 

[torontoke]

Yes u definately need to ph your water.
Even if u just buy the $5 ph kit from an aquarium store.
Couple drops of vinegar per liter usually drops the ph by 1

Good luck man

 

[Extacie]

If farmers could grow indoors, they would.

Why? That would drive the price up so high it would be unbelievable.
I mean in the future when cannabis is legalized do you really think indoor will be the primary thing going on? It is so expensive and uneconomical.
In my opinion, in the future, people growing indoors will be shut out of business by the people who grow outdoors and do a good job of it.

I live in Colorado and I have seen better outdoor in California than I have ever seen or smoked indoors in this state, & I have been a patient here for 3 years now.

And even if indoor is better quality on average, who do you think the majority would prefer to buy in the future.. An ounce of decent to good quality of outdoor for 25-50 bucks, or an ounce of good quality indoor for 150-200? With indoor you have so much overhead you can only drop the price so much. Idk, I personally think outdoor & greenhouses are the way of the future, not indoor. I am sure many will disagree with me.

It just doesn't make sense to me why farmers would want to grow indoors. I mean controlling the environment and having less pest to deal with is nice, but because of overhead is just dumb & uneconomical in my opinion. If farmers grew indoors I think a lot of people would either start growing their own vegetables or quit consuming them all together. Who wants to pay $5-10 a tomato or something ridiculous like that just because it was grown indoors? All of the experienced 10-20 year growers I have ever met have told me outdoor is the way to go hands down if you are in the right area/position to do so. You just can not replicate the sun indoors.

 

[Extacie]

Yes u definately need to ph your water.
Even if u just buy the $5 ph kit from an aquarium store.
Couple drops of vinegar per liter usually drops the ph by 1

Good luck man

Thank you! I have a pretty good bluelab PH meter I use regularly, I just was not for sure although common sense tells me probably so. Wanted to confirm with someone with more experience, so thank you.

 

[mr.schroederific]

Why? That would drive the price up so high it would be unbelievable.
I mean in the future when cannabis is legalized do you really think indoor will be the primary thing going on? It is so expensive and uneconomical.
In my opinion, in the future, people growing indoors will be shut out of business by the people who grow outdoors and do a good job of it.

I live in Colorado and I have seen better outdoor in California than I have ever seen or smoked indoors in this state, & I have been a patient here for 3 years now.

And even if indoor is better quality on average, who do you think the majority would prefer to buy in the future.. An ounce of decent to good quality of outdoor for 25-50 bucks, or an ounce of good quality indoor for 150-200? With indoor you have so much overhead you can only drop the price so much. Idk, I personally think outdoor & greenhouses is the way of the future, not indoor. I am sure many will disagree with me.

One word: Control

Indoors, we can control everything. Outside, youre at the mercy of mother nature. Now, Im not saying its economial because of the cost.

Quality over Quantity ? Isn't that one an age old dilimea

 

[mr.schroederific]

If there was a God and he were to design a place to grow, it would be northern cali and afghan. But we all don't live in those places, now do we?

 

[Extacie]

One word: Control

Indoors, we can control everything. Outside, youre at the mercy of mother nature. Now, Im not saying its economial because of the cost.

Quality over Quantity ? Isn't that one an age old dilimea

Yes I agree with you 100%.
By the way I hope what I am posting does not offend you, I am just trying to have an open discussion regarding this with an open mind. I am curious, as this is something that I have always wondered.

BUT, with that in mind, wouldn't greenhouses be the way of the future, the best of both worlds?
And the BEST QUALITY I have ever seen was grown outdoors.

Although on average I see better quality indoors than out.

I just don't really see indoors being a thing of the future, 10-20 years down the road, but I could be way off on that.

 

[Extacie]

If there was a God and he were to design a place to grow, it would be northern cali and afghan. But we all don't live in those places, now do we?

No, but God did give us the ability to create things such as greenhouses which allows us to control the environment AND use the natural sun. Idk man, I just think when it is industrialized people will look back at all of the indoor gardeners, and laugh at them for all the money they waisted. (I am one those people who will be laughed at by them as well)

I think a lot of the reason people grow indoors is due to prohibition.
I think once prohibition is lifted people who try to continue to grow indoors will be shut out of business. I have seen VERY good quality outdoor here in CO as well that was right up there with the top indoor in the state.. You just have to know how to work with and manipulate mother nature I suppose.

A TON of people grow good quality corn, tomatoes, and other normal farming items in other parts of the world, not just in northern cali and afghan. If we were limited to just growing vegetable & herbs there, that would be a bad scenario for the rest of the world.

 

[mr.schroederific]

Yes I agree with you 100%.
By the way I hope what I am posting does not offend you, I am just trying to have an open discussion regarding this with an open mind. I am curious, as this is something that I have always wondered.

BUT, with that in mind, wouldn't greenhouses be the way of the future, the best of both worlds?
And the BEST QUALITY I have ever seen was grown outdoors.

Although on average I see better quality indoors than out.

I just don't really see indoors being a thing of the future, 10-20 years down the road, but I could be way off on that.

No offense taken, this is actually a good discussion. I think with the emergence of green energy (solar,turbines, etc.) and the technology of lighting systems. We are very close to seeing a indoor operation with a very small carbon footprint. When that happens, we will see "indoor farms" with no power consumption.

I already have solar on my house, i run 2000 watts 12-12, flowering room, clone room. Ac's, dehumidifiers, fans, blah blah blah. About 2,500 kWh a month, don't know if i got the letters right. My power bill is less than 50 a month and in winter. It credits towards summer.

Now mind you, I have 150 month solar payment but when its paid off. I will be growing for less than 50 month... Indoor

 

[mr.schroederific]

No, but God did give us the ability to create things such as greenhouses which allows us to control the environment AND use the natural sun. Idk man, I just think when it is industrialized people will look back at all of the indoor gardeners, and laugh at them for all the money they waisted. (I am one those people who will be laughed at by them as well)

I think a lot of the reason people grow indoors is due to prohibition.
I think once prohibition is lifted people who try to continue to grow indoors will be shut out of business. I have seen VERY good quality outdoor here in CO as well that was right up there with the top indoor in the state.. You just have to know how to work with and manipulate mother nature I suppose.

A TON of people grow good quality corn, tomatoes, and other normal farming items in other parts of the world, not just in northern cali and afghan. If we were limited to just growing vegetable & herbs there, that would be a bad scenario for the rest of the world.

Its okay old timer, change is immenaite

 

[Extacie]

No offense taken, this is actually a good discussion. I think with the emergence of green energy (solar,turbines, etc.) and the technology of lighting systems. We are very close to seeing a indoor operation with a very small carbon footprint. When that happens, we will see "indoor farms" with no power consumption.

I already have solar on my house, i run 2000 watts 12-12, flowering room, clone room. Ac's, dehumidifiers, fans, blah blah blah. About 2,500 kWh a month, don't know if i got the letters right. My power bill is less than 50 a month and in winter. It credits towards summer.

Now mind you, I have 150 month solar payment but when its paid off. I will be growing for less than 50 month... Indoor

That's a great point, I had not thought of that, thank you for pointing it out.
Do you think it would be realistic to do this on a large enough scale in order to meet demand? Maybe later down the road when the price of solar energy and other forms of green energy are cheaper? I am sure it would pay itself off, but that would take a HUGE initial investment to get something like that going to keep up with the way demand currently is.

 

[Extacie]

Its okay old timer, change is immenaite

Immenaite? I couldn't even find that word googling it lol. I am actually in my 20's.