Good bulbs vs cheap bulbs (hid lighting)

[Krash382]

Hey all i thought i would share this. I recently swapped out my 600w plantmax hps bulb for a hortilux eye, and i cannot stress enough how much of a difference it made. Im not trying to start a war on which is the best bulb, just sharing my personal experience. Flower density/ weight has came really close to doubling with the bulb swap, along with crystal production. So for all the inexperienced growers like myself, USE GOOD BULBS lol that is all

 

[Figgy]

There's usually a reason things are more expensive. "Usually" being key. I would almost always pay more for quality than pay less and roll the dice.

I haven't tried the Hortilux yet. My Ushios have done well for me.

Grats on the new light and results. I guess Hortilux just got another repeat customer.

 

[piecemasta]

Happy to hear your grow is going well! But, I'm rather skeptical to believe that the yield doubled simply by swapping out the lightbulb. Was your previous lightbulb even working properly? How did you calculate/quantify bud density, weight, and trichome production? Most inexperienced growers likely have some difficulty monitoring such variables due to their inexperience. I'm hard-pressed to believe most individuals claims on these types of forums especially if they lack reasonable documentation. I believe most newbies read threads without much skepticism because they haven't been around the block enough and form unreasonable expectations especially when it comes to yields. Yield and trichome production varies greatly between genetics. Temperature can also play a significant factor. I might buy one just to run a side by side comparison with my setup to see if it justifies paying over double the price for a single bulb. $30 more really isn't that much money but if your running several lights costs such as these can quickly raise a growers operating expenses. I'm always ready to learn something new but I do not expect to double my yield simply by swapping my bulb that is for sure.

 

[howsitgrowin420]

Were the plantmax you were replacing new and were you switching to a higher lumen bulb? I think that lumen output goes along with price a lot of the time though. It would be interesting to see the measures mentioned by @piecemasta compared with new bulbs in different tents keeping as much as possible constant between the tents. I just ordered new bulbs and went with the Ushio 600s over my usual digilux. If I can save $25 per bulb (Amazon Digilux $80 vs Ushio $54) and I'm swapping 4 ideally every 3 months or so, then I'd like to do so. The yield difference (if any) will be easy to quantify over time and strain and $100 per order will likely prove inconsequential in the long run if digilux yields more, but right now, as in as I sit and look in my wallet, I'd rather spend $100 less.

We'll see if I can remember to check in 9 weeks from now when the first batch under the new bulbs comes through. With the age of my current bulbs though, I'd see results regardless.

Attached are the pdfs I used when making my decision . Digilux looked like it provided a broader spectrum and I have undoubtedly been happy with the bulbs, but what I really used was this http://growershouse.com/blog/hid-bulb-test-comparison-review-hortilux-ushio-digilux-baddass-solistek-lumatek-maxlume-growlite-ultra-sun/ I'd like to see if the PAR readings at the edges hold true with different hoods, but since I use the edges as much as possible, I like the idea of having more power in places other than directly under the bulb. There is a video that makes the graphs easier to compare (I'm not sure why they don't have better labels on them) Here's a link to that

 

[howsitgrowin420]

and I assumed that the 1000 and 600 would perform similarly for each brand - that could be a ridiculous assumption.

 

[70's natureboy]

That's good you can justify the price. I tried Hortilux a couple times and didn't notice any difference so I went back to the cheapies.

 

[howsitgrowin420]

That's good you can justify the price. I tried Hortilux a couple times and didn't notice any difference so I went back to the cheapies.

"didn't notice any difference" well, if you didn't notice a difference then we'd better take your word for it, I hear you have very acute powers of observation. Instead of "cheapies" how about telling us the brand so we can do some research....I mean justify not using junk fire hazards.

Let's point out that in a perpetual harvest you only need a difference of about an eighth of an ounce to make up the price difference between low price bulbs and something with a higher initial output rating.

 

[piecemasta]

"didn't notice any difference" well, if you didn't notice a difference then we'd better take your word for it, I hear you have very acute powers of observation. Instead of "cheapies" how about telling us the brand so we can do some research....I mean justify not using junk fire hazards.

Let's point out that in a perpetual harvest you only need a difference of about an eighth of an ounce to make up the price difference between low price bulbs and something with a higher initial output rating.

Try using Amazon for affordable bulbs. They have name brand bulbs by the same manufactures who make the digital ballasts. I think $26 for a light bulb is expensive compared to others you might buy for your house. I have never had a issue with any light bulb posing a fire hazard. Odds are no else has either if they are handling the bulbs properly and using them with the correct digital ballast. Maybe if your inexperienced and believe it is okay to mismatch bulbs and ballast then you might be more mind full but if someone is doing that they are still a novice. Some individuals think that since they have a dimmable ballast they can use lower wattage bulbs. This assumption is partly true as it might cause your bulbs to fail prematurely. But even then the odds of it somehow creating a fire are slim to none. Claims that cheap bulbs are more likely to catch fire etc are tactics used by expensive bulb manufacturers to get inexperienced growers to fork over double or even triple the amount of money just to provide a false piece of mind. And they likely do because they do not know any better!

 

[piecemasta]

"didn't notice any difference" well, if you didn't notice a difference then we'd better take your word for it, I hear you have very acute powers of observation. Instead of "cheapies" how about telling us the brand so we can do some research....I mean justify not using junk fire hazards.

Let's point out that in a perpetual harvest you only need a difference of about an eighth of an ounce to make up the price difference between low price bulbs and something with a higher initial output rating.

Do you measure the output rating of your bulbs or do you just take the manufactures word for it? I'm always skeptical of what manufactures claim especially if they are trying to sell me something that I can easily buy for half the cost. If my harvest had only an eighth of a difference from pervious harvests I would usually attribute that to improved training techniques such as lollipopping/ topping etc. Maybe if you replaced a worn out bulb a grower might see some noticeable difference in yield but most home growers reuse their bulbs for at least 2-3.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Do you measure the output rating of your bulbs or do you just take the manufactures word for it? I'm always skeptical of what manufactures claim especially if they are trying to sell me something that I can easily buy for half the cost. If my harvest had only an eighth of a difference from pervious harvests I would usually attribute that to improved training techniques such as lollipopping/ topping etc. Maybe if you replaced a worn out bulb a grower might see some noticeable difference in yield but most home growers reuse their bulbs for at least 2-3.

I believe ALL hid growers should have either a camera that reads light intensity or a light meter.
Old bulbs suck badly, the spectrum changes, the lumens change, it all goes downhill quite fast.
Every three harvests I change the bulb, I may even be going longer than I should.

 

[lilroach]

Last June I noticed that my plants just stopped growing. I mean they didn't even bend towards the lights anymore (I didn't have to turn them all-of-a-sudden). It took two weeks for me to notice that nothing was going on in the flower room. I never considered it was the lights because I just replaced the bulbs several months before.

After eliminating all the other probable causes I opted to replace the bulbs again. Within a day the plants took off again.

The bulbs I bought the first go-around were what I would call mid-priced (I can't remember the brand right now), and I replaced 'em with Hortilux that are working fine.

The lesson learned is that some new bulbs work for awhile and then lose their potency pretty quickly. I can't say that paying more for a bulb will necessarily give you a better bulb, but a shitty bulb at any cost will certainly hurt your yield.

 

[howsitgrowin420]

Do you measure the output rating of your bulbs or do you just take the manufactures word for it? I'm always skeptical of what manufactures claim especially if they are trying to sell me something that I can easily buy for half the cost. If my harvest had only an eighth of a difference from pervious harvests I would usually attribute that to improved training techniques such as lollipopping/ topping etc. Maybe if you replaced a worn out bulb a grower might see some noticeable difference in yield but most home growers reuse their bulbs for at least 2-3.

I would repost the link to the PAR comparisons, but if you didn't read it the first time, why would you now? Long story short, I chose to pay $54 each for my bulbs because they outperformed the others at the edges. I don't know too many serious caregivers using cheap bulbs. you know how playstation sells their systems with cheapo 5400RPM hard drives? Some people will be happy with the experience from that 5400RPM drive, but others will forgo that crappy hard drive, buy the 12GB model, and upgrade to a performance drive first thing.

Oh, the dim-able CFLs for my living room are $16 each so yes, I would expect to pay more for bulbs that sustain life, does that answer your question? I do not generally purchase the cheapest thing unless it is functionally equivalent. I found performance differences grounded in actual numbers and made a choice based on that.

By all means though, when my operation has shriveled and died under the crushing weight of the price of quality bulbs, you'll still be slangin. But, like I said, my choice was dictated by performance, yours is dictated by assumptions about manufacturers teaming together to make stories of fire hazards and generally dupe the growing public with their false ratings.....Paranoia, maybe start smoking a different strain? You are right though, Subway sold us 11.5 inch subs for a long time before someone actually measured.

 

[piecemasta]

But, like I said, my choice was dictated by performance, yours is dictated by assumptions about manufacturers teaming together to make stories of fire hazards and generally dupe the growing public with their false ratings.....Paranoia, maybe start smoking a different strain? You are right though, Subway sold us 11.5 inch subs for a long time before someone actually measured.

You misunderstood me. I have never had any issues with my $20-$30 bulbs posing a fire hazard. I said what I said in response to you saying "using junk fire hazards" in reference to the bulbs simply because they are more affordable. As a consumer you should always retain a level of skepticism when it comes to various competitors trying to compete for our hard earned money. Especially if the company providing the data is in the business of trying to sell you their equipment. You will be told anything to get between you and your wallet. An experienced individual wouldn't run out and throw money at a new piece of equipment without first doing their own due diligence. I would not consider that to be a form of paranoia hahaha, but yes the genetics are that good!

 

[howsitgrowin420]

You misunderstood me. I have never had any issues with my $20-$30 bulbs posing a fire hazard. I said what I said in response to you saying "using junk fire hazards" in reference to the bulbs simply because they are more affordable. As a consumer you should always retain a level of skepticism when it comes to various competitors trying to compete for our hard earned money. Especially if the company providing the data is in the business of trying to sell you their equipment. You will be told anything to get between you and your wallet. An experienced individual wouldn't run out and throw money at a new piece of equipment without first doing their own due diligence. I would not consider that to be a form of paranoia hahaha, but yes the genetics are that good! View attachment 3296716

"Claims that cheap bulbs are more likely to catch fire etc are tactics used by expensive bulb manufacturers to get inexperienced growers to fork over double or even triple the amount of money just to provide a false piece of mind"

So, now are you saying that the PAR ratings and the video of the testing were in fact altered by greenhouse to sell their bulbs? That is fairly audacious and hinges on the assumption that absolutely none of their customers will have a PAR meter. You are trying to back off of your position now that you have encountered resistance. Don't change your story. You very clearly said that calling a bulb a fire hazard is a tactic used by the manufacturers of the more costly bulbs. You even tried to call me an inexperienced grower (of course not directly, but in a passive, Low-T kind of way). Oh crap, there I go inferring logical deductions from illogical content. I like mine, but maybe that's just the lighting.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

The $$$ you save by using philips/sylvania mh/hps HID bulbs at the big hardware stores allows you to re-lamp more often. Making any slight par/lumen bumps from the expensive brands non-existent and still have money left to hit the bar............no brainer.

 

[piecemasta]

"Claims that cheap bulbs are more likely to catch fire etc are tactics used by expensive bulb manufacturers to get inexperienced growers to fork over double or even triple the amount of money just to provide a false piece of mind"

So, now are you saying that the PAR ratings and the video of the testing were in fact altered by greenhouse to sell their bulbs? That is fairly audacious and hinges on the assumption that absolutely none of their customers will have a PAR meter. You are trying to back off of your position now that you have encountered resistance. Don't change your story. You very clearly said that calling a bulb a fire hazard is a tactic used by the manufacturers of the more costly bulbs. You even tried to call me an inexperienced grower (of course not directly, but in a passive, Low-T kind of way). Oh crap, there I go inferring logical deductions from illogical content. I like mine, but maybe that's just the lighting.

I think you are confused buddy. I never brought up PAR ratings or anything about a video hahaha. What are the odds of an average hobbyist owning a PAR meter to measure something like that. Most growers don't even own a pH meter for that matter! Change my story? hahaha. I'm not familiar with this story you speak of just like everything else your claiming I said. Yes, I did say that is a possible tactic some seller may use to sway inexperienced growers into spending more. I've experienced those instances first hand. I never said "you" were inexperienced so cool your jets buddy. Your not the only person reading this thread. You sir need to smoke a bowl or two. Apologies for your misunderstanding. I was speaking in general terms. Not specifically about the manufactures. Individuals claiming to favor the more pricer bulbs because they pose less of a fire hazard is bogus. I never claimed to be any more experienced then anyone else here. Please direct your negativity else where. That's one way to ruin a good discussion!

 

[piecemasta]

The $$$ you save by using philips/sylvania mh/hps HID bulbs at the big hardware stores allows you to re-lamp more often. Making any slight par/lumen bumps from the expensive brands non-existent and still have money left to hit the bar............no brainer.

I'm with PSUAGRO! ahaha

 

[kmog33]

What i would say is that you can change the cheap ones every harvest and by the third youre yielding more than the hortilux, and thats when it runs you the same cost. And im definitely not swapping a 75 dollar bulb every run.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

 

[amgprb]

I run both expensive bulbs and inexpensive. I have 4 HIDs so bulbs can get pricey and I get what I can afford at that time.

My favorite is Ushio. I can typically get 4 good harvests out of a ushio before I see any difference (ie lower yield).

As for the inexpensive, i use iPower bulbs. You can get them on Ebay/Amazon for under $15. They also come with a 1 year warrenty. When new, they will perform just like a top end bulb. I have run them side by side with very little difference in yield. The issue with the iPower lamps are that the quality definately diminishes much faster. I will replace an iPower lamp every other harvest.

*another mid priced bulb that I really like are Solis Tek. They compare to Ushio and Hortilux in quality and I will run a Solis Tek for 3-4 harvests before replacing

 

[PSUAGRO.]

you are quite amazing. No, you didn't bring up PAR ratings, I did and you still must not have seen that post. let me re-cap and then you can run out to the bar to consume alcohol with PSUAGRO, fucking drinkers are the problem with the world - they never get motivated to change anything because they can just blunt themselves with government approved retard juice. I basically said "I bought Ushios because they had a higher PAR rating at the edges compared to not only the cheap bulbs tested, but the other bulbs tested" and you basically said "cheap bulbs are every bit as good as expensive bulbs, but inexperienced growers buy expensive bulbs because manufacturers: 1) make false claims about performance and 2) create stories of fire hazards so that those inexperienced growers will buy them" Did you not imply that inexperienced growers buy expensive bulbs? You are not very familiar with deduction or logic, are you? Ah, the grammar gave that away.

You can go back and read your responses to my posts and if you still don't think that you completely ignored the available data in favor of "I didn't see a difference"..... Hobbyist, now I understand why we are not on the same page. No, I'm not a hobbyist you fucking toolbox. Go grow a 1oz plant and call it a good day, meanwhile I'll keep pulling 4 oz per plant out of a perpetual harvest at 4 plants every 2.5 weeks. The cost of bulbs is fractional for experienced growers. Better yet, go punch a clock to get someone else rich and then dull yourself at the bar - by no brainer he meant that drinkers have no brains, right?

You can spew this Low T, I wasn't trying to be a prick, bullshit all day long bud, I can read and I can comprehend.

If you want to compare bud photos, I posted what my bulbs produce and you posted what your bulbs produce - I'll keep buying my bulbs and recommend that anyone who is serious about growing not by anything but construction materials from Home Depot.

I was having a little fun..........Christ, calm down grower.

You do realize that Philips and Sylvania are the leading manufacturers of HID bulbs worldwide right? Their good quality/stable products used by countless lighting applications daily @ a affordable price. Yes horties put out the most par on mogul based systems initially, BUT suffer the same flaw like the rest ; lumen depreciation. Every time the salt/halide arc is ignited by extremely high voltage, it gets weakened.........NO matter the manufacturer, their is no way around this obviously. Re-lamping every run with QUALITY & affordable bulbs will give you overall higher yields than sticking with overpriced bulbs for a year+ IMO.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-400-Watt-ED18-High-Pressure-Sodium-HID-Light-Bulb-140987/100023589 VS http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Hortilux-Super-HPS-Lamp- 400w is a NO-brainer and you have the luxury of buying it locally for returns/bulb check before buying.

CMH is a different story due to their vastly superior spectrum and suggest people to try it for the slightly higher cost.

Did I tell people to buy crappy ipower/chinese knock off bulbs??? fuck no..............they are dangerous, and most MH bulbs are NOT open fixture rated, so use your heads brothers!

In the end it's your $$$$$, spend it how you want!!...............it was just my 2c