Affordable?

[ttystikk]

I'm not understanding this. Are you saying Bill Gates making money takes it from us?

Do you feel you deserve money from another person because they have more? I hope I'm just reading this wrong.

No. What I'm trying to say is that the notion that capital gains should be taxed at drastically lower rates than hourly wages or salaries is itself bankrupt.

Why should real estate or capital gains be taxed less? Why should a millionaire pay a lower tax rate, just because they earn more?

Here's the problem with low taxes; their money/wealth/power accumulates without effort and without merit, other than that of already having a pile of money. It's exactly the same economic situation our forebears by the millions left merry old England and founded this country- and why millions since have followed that same dream here.

It wasn't always thus, in the recent past the country taxed everyone equally and at relatively high rates. What happened? The fifties and the American golden age of the middle class.

Today by contrast, our economy is mired in inefficiency and lack of public capital with which to lead.

Subsidizing corporations just leads to more subsidies, not more prosperity. Has corporate America delivered on their promises of prosperity for all and jobs for everyone? Sure- for China!

Meanwhile, it's somehow everyone else's fault they're falling behind ever fewer getting ever richer- by obviously and transparently gaming the system for their own benefit at our expense?

Don't just read what I write to find holes in it and brag about them; we have real problems in this country that need real solutions. The fact that no one in Washington is listening isn't news- nor is it an excuse to be lazy or merely fight amongst ourselves.

Part of the Richie Rich right wing mythology is that entrepreneurs do it alone, with no help from and usually some interference from government. BULLSHIT. Public services and infrastructure are the foundation our business strength is built on.

The idea that some guy hawking a bit of schlock doesn't owe a debt to the society that makes his living possible is just greed and selfishness talking.

You want a justification for taxation, there you are.

I plan to be one of these rich people and I intend to pay my fair share in taxes and then some. Just like Mr Gates, Mr Buffett, Mr Soros and many others of serious means, I believe firmly in the need for everyone to contribute to their countrymen, the rich have more to do it with- and have certainly benefited the most.

 

[ttystikk]

Yes, this I agree with. They should be paying the same rate as everyone else. Glad to see you come around.

Also, 250K a year is not a rich person, please don't put them in the same category as Al Gore. (not that I've seen you do this, just in general people do)

No way, us poor bastards in that bracket are right in the fucking crosshairs; we make enough money to tax the shit out of but we don't have enough to shelter it- and the REAL rich don't want competition!

 

[ginwilly]

No. What I'm trying to say is that the notion that capital gains should be taxed at drastically lower rates than hourly wages or salaries is itself bankrupt.

Why should real estate or capital gains be taxed less? Why should a millionaire pay a lower tax rate, just because they earn more?

Here's the problem with low taxes; their money/wealth/power accumulates without effort and without merit, other than that of already having a pile of money. It's exactly the same economic situation our forebears by the millions left merry old England and founded this country- and why millions since have followed that same dream here.

It wasn't always thus, in the recent past the country taxed everyone equally and at relatively high rates. What happened? The fifties and the American golden age of the middle class.

Today by contrast, our economy is mired in inefficiency and lack of public capital with which to lead.

Subsidizing corporations just leads to more subsidies, not more prosperity. Has corporate America delivered on their pr omises of prosperity for all and jobs for everyone? Sure- for China!

Meanwhile, it's everyone else's fault they're falling behind ever fewer getting ever richer- by obviously and transparently gaming the system?

Don't just read what I write to find holes in it and brag about them; we have real problems in this country that need real solutions. The fact that no one in Washington it's listening isn't news- more is it an excuse to be lazy or merely fight amongst ourselves.

Part of the Richie Rich right wing mythology it's that entrepreneurs do it alone, with no help from and usually some interference from government. BULLSHIT. Public devices and infrastructure are the foundation our business strength is built on.

The idea that some guy hawking a bit of schlock doesn't owe a debt to the society that makes his living possible is just greed and selfishness talking.

You want a justification for taxation, there you are.

I plan to be one of these rich people and I intend to pay my fair share in taxes and then some. Just like Mr Gates, Mr Buffett, Mr Soros and many others of serious means, I believe firmly in the need for everyone to contribute to their countrymen, the rich have more to do it with- and have certainly benefited the most.

Yes, lot's of things wrong with our tax code.

I don't mind capital gains being taxed lower if they are not your main income source. Why should you be penalized for saving money? Why should I pay interest income from a bank savings account but not from government bonds?

Raising capital gains hurts the little people like me who make a little extra on smart investments. Investments that I made because of the tax laws. I also shouldn't be penalized for selling my house and making a profit, but if selling houses is my income, then it should be taxed as such.

What I'm trying to say but not doing well at all is, capital gains are a different animal unless that's your sole source of income. If that's the case then tax it as income. People like Buffet and Romney don't have an income other than capital gains, that's where the system is rigged for these guys.

Our tax code is used for social engineering. Reading every debate about taxes here will let you know real quick people aren't ready to give up that aspect of it yet.

Fix corporate laws, call income income if that's what it is, make sure everyone has skin in the game.

 

[ginwilly]

No way, us poor bastards in that bracket are right in the fucking crosshairs; we make enough money to tax the shit out of but we don't have enough to shelter it- and the REAL rich don't want competition!

That's the shitty part of central planning. Somebody making 250K a year living in Pascagoula Mississippi is doing great. Living in Long Island you are paycheck to paycheck.

Imagine if our federal government was limited in size and scope like intended. A flat 5% would most likely cover expenses. If federal income tax was that low, imagine what a state like California could do. High speed rails would be a reality there. They could charge 50% and people would pay it to live there. It really wouldn't be any different than the cut they pay now.

 

[NoDrama]

No way, us poor bastards in that bracket are right in the fucking crosshairs; we make enough money to tax the shit out of but we don't have enough to shelter it- and the REAL rich don't want competition!

Bullshit, there are hundreds of ways to avoid taxes, you just need to do some excruciating reading of the tax laws.
Put all your money in a trust, then go on food stamps and welfare. You can qualify even if you own a mansion and drive a Ferrari. Put all your income in a Tax deferred retirement account, a self directed IRA is the best. Live off the money of other people who don't want to put the effort into avoiding taxes. Millionaires can be on welfare too.

 

[NoDrama]

Our tax code is used for social engineering.

And very effective it is, being able to deduct a mortgage payment made the price of a new home double, super good for people who own houses.

 

[ginwilly]

And very effective it is, being able to deduct a mortgage payment made the price of a new home double, super good for people who own houses.

You can see the 50's mentality all over it too. Buy a house makes you stable and locked into a place a job, rent a house and you might be more mobile and less stable. Get married because it's the right thing to do, shack up and live together and you don't get the bennies. Have kids, here's your prize, we need the middle class to keep growing so we have more tax income.

A married person with 4 kids will pay a fraction what a single person with no kids pay yet receive a crazy amount of more societal benefits. If that's not a from each... to each.. mentality I don't know what is. Sorry ma'am, I know you don't have kids or can afford to buy a house, but we are going to charge you more than your married coworker with a houseful of kids that are using the school you pay for because.. well.. because, that's why.

There will be no change in our future because of the mouthbreathers that yell "that's regressive" to any change that isn't eat the rich more.

 

[NoDrama]

You can see the 50's mentality all over it too. Buy a house makes you stable and locked into a place a job, rent a house and you might be more mobile and less stable. Get married because it's the right thing to do, shack up and live together and you don't get the bennies. Have kids, here's your prize, we need the middle class to keep growing so we have more tax income.

A married person with 4 kids will pay a fraction what a single person with no kids pay yet receive a crazy amount of more societal benefits. If that's not a from each... to each.. mentality I don't know what is. Sorry ma'am, I know you don't have kids or can afford to buy a house, but we are going to charge you more than your married coworker with a houseful of kids that are using the school you pay for because.. well.. because, that's why.

There will be no change in our future because of the mouthbreathers that yell "that's regressive" to any change that isn't eat the rich more.

Yes!
A single mom with 4 kids is better off making a gross of $29,000 and using all of the welfare she can qualify for will bring that number to a cool $69,900 when you add in the benefits and welfare value.

A single mom with 4 kids making $70,000 a year at a job, will only see $57,000 of that.
What incentive is there to work?

 

[schuylaar]

Yes, this I agree with. They should be paying the same rate as everyone else. Glad to see you come around.

Also, 250K a year is not a rich person, please don't put them in the same category as Al Gore. (not that I've seen you do this, just in general people do)

someone who makes 250k is not in the top 1%..they are in the bottom 99%.

 

[schuylaar]

Yes!
A single mom with 4 kids is better off making a gross of $29,000 and using all of the welfare she can qualify for will bring that number to a cool $69,900 when you add in the benefits and welfare value.

A single mom with 4 kids making $70,000 a year at a job, will only see $57,000 of that.
What incentive is there to work?

the single mom should be receiving child support in some form from the baby daddy.

 

[UncleBuck]

The design of it is for our healthy youth to pay for everyone.

"Hey dumbass, you are stupid enough to vote for this party, pay for this shitty bill too OK? thanks".

What our government failed to realize at the time was the lack of work we have for our youth so they are trying to get on the teet too.

The blank stares you get when you ask them why do you think Greece was rioting, do you think they had a legitimate beef, are we doing anything differently is fun. Here watch,

Hey Pad, do you support the reasoning behind Greece's rioting? Do you support a system that robs from future generations?

Greece spam again?

Get some new talking points you fucking dullard

 

[UncleBuck]

How many of those bitches supported the piece of shit we ended up with?

You guys could have passed anything you wanted, in fact you did.

BTW, this plan is NOT better than nothing. This plan ensures that doing it the right way will never happen now. That capital is spent. Neither party will allow the idiots in charge to pull another fast one like this (for at least another 4 or 5 years until we forget).

Nope, the shitty bill is all yours, every bit of the shit, even the corn and the nuts, it's all yours. The bitchy right was uniformly against it, the bitchy dishonest left was uniformly for it.

You should go back to attributing magic powers to the bill instead of blaming the right for how much it sucks.

Bla bla spam.

This shitty bill is supported by 59% of Americans. More republicans like you want to keep it rather than pass a republican alternative.

Dumbass spammer.

 

[UncleBuck]

You mean where is their overreaching power grabbing lie of a bill? That ship sailed.

So you are claiming that the shitty bill was a republican idea that was so shitty that even THEY abandoned it, yet the dems are too stupid to come up with one on their own, so they had to pass one that was rejected soundly for being a bad idea.

You need to do better.

What is wrong with letting the states come up with their own plan anyway? Wouldn't a few different idea and choices implemented in different regions be a better plan? Why do you guys have such a hard on for one sized fits all plans?

Sorry, this bill is yours, Gruber pointed out how stupid you were, and every day you prove he was right.

States rights! Gruber! One size fits all!

Reported as spam.

 

[UncleBuck]

Dude, you are seriously going to pull the "I know a doctor" card.

Reminds me of how you claim you can't be racist because you treat black people.

 

[UncleBuck]

He won't answer, he is googling 'What is the main goal of a business?' right now.

No, only plagiarists like you do that.

 

[UncleBuck]

Yes, lot's of things wrong with our tax code.

I don't mind capital gains being taxed lower if they are not your main income source. Why should you be penalized for saving money? Why should I pay interest income from a bank savings account but not from government bonds?

Raising capital gains hurts the little people like me who make a little extra on smart investments. Investments that I made because of the tax laws. I also shouldn't be penalized for selling my house and making a profit, but if selling houses is my income, then it should be taxed as such.

What I'm trying to say but not doing well at all is, capital gains are a different animal unless that's your sole source of income. If that's the case then tax it as income. People like Buffet and Romney don't have an income other than capital gains, that's where the system is rigged for these guys.

Our tax code is used for social engineering. Reading every debate about taxes here will let you know real quick people aren't ready to give up that aspect of it yet.

Fix corporate laws, call income income if that's what it is, make sure everyone has skin in the game.

Central planning! Social engineering!

Reported as spam

 

[ginwilly]

someone who makes 250k is not in the top 1%..they are in the bottom 99%.

Very true but the same tax bracket. The rookie making 500K pays the same percentage as the all star making 20 Million plus endorsements. Isn't that regressive? That's always the argument against a flat tax when discussing people who make 25K a year compared to 500K. It's the same math between the two examples.

Try to remember fairness is a subjective measure. A vast amount of people think it's most fair if we ALL pay the same percentage.

It's disgusting what we've allowed. Letting people like Buffet pay a lower effective rate than his secretary. The fairest would be if he paid the SAME percentage the she does that we ALL do.

I'm with you on the rage of crazy tax codes that allow write-offs that only the wealthiest are able to use. We should all have the same write-offs if any, the same rates.

If I pay 10K in taxes and Buffet pays 100M, I'm good with that, sounds fair to me if it's the same percentage.

(This is all said ignoring that I think income tax is immoral and should be replaced completely)

 

[londonfog]

Very true but the same tax bracket. The rookie making 500K pays the same percentage as the all star making 20 Million plus endorsements. Isn't that regressive? That's always the argument against a flat tax when discussing people who make 25K a year compared to 500K. It's the same math between the two examples.

Try to remember fairness is a subjective measure. A vast amount of people think it's most fair if we ALL pay the same percentage.

It's disgusting what we've allowed. Letting people like Buffet pay a lower effective rate than his secretary. The fairest would be if he paid the SAME percentage the she does that we ALL do.

I'm with you on the rage of crazy tax codes that allow write-offs that only the wealthiest are able to use. We should all have the same write-offs if any, the same rates.

If I pay 10K in taxes and Buffet pays 100M, I'm good with that, sounds fair to me if it's the same percentage.

(This is all said ignoring that I think income tax is immoral and should be replaced completely)

income tax should be replaced with what ??

 

[NoDrama]

should be

Lots of reason why some fathers don't, won't, or can't. But child support is not considered income so it doesn't even count.

 

[NoDrama]

income tax should be replaced with what ??

Duties, Imposts and Excises, just like the constitution says. Taxing a man's labor is akin to serfdom. In some ways it is worse, because the harder you work the more they take.