who's in construction? need some advice on ice dams and damage..

WeedFreak78

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I got bad ice dams on my house,i know it's because of poor sealing/insulation, going to fix that next year. Last night, before i went to bed i heard a loud, house shaking crack. My mother says she heard the same thing the other day. i just went into the attic and can see a 3-4ft section of my eves are full of ice, like full joist to joists, 6-8" deep of ice. I have water running through the walls to the basement. I think the ice froze in the eves /walls and through freezing and expansion is starting to break/separate the structure, but i don't see any evidence of it.

So, here's the dilemma..i don't want to be bringing insurance/construction people in the house, for what should be obvious reasons, for about another 4 months. Mainly worried about insurance appraisers coming and seeing a not permitted room with elec/plumbing in my basement, even though it won't be in operation when i do have them come, it'll still be fairly obvious whats going on, tear down isn't an option, I can probably pass it off as a climate controlled storage. I need to mitigate damage until then. First thing is I'm going out to do some ice breaking/melting, going to see if i can find some shingle safe ice melt, and deal with the dams. How do i thaw out inside the walls/eves after that? Oh and because of the pitch of the roof i can just barely access the eaves from inside, laying on my belly arms fully outstretched. F'ing sucks because the roof is only 2 yrs old.

anyone in FLA/NV/AZ/CA/southern CO or any other warm(er) southern state who wants to trade property for property?? lol.
 
well if you can, consider drilling a 2+ inch diameter hole toward the bottom of your wall(s) for air circulation to pass through, this will help evaporate liquid water. to handle ice buildup within the walls, try pointing a portable heater at the wall. as for your grow room, one option would be to, once your grow is done, throw down some tomato and cucumber plants in there.. takes about 3 weeks for them to blow up big time.. that way, if appraisers need to go in there, you have veggies going.

if you plan on trying to fix the problem yourself, one suggestion would be to somehow vent the heat from your grow lights up to the attic to prevent ice damns from forming.. you also need to better prepare yourself for the winter.. ice buildup comes from poorly irrigated roofing.
 
insidagain said:
Torpedo heater is what you need. Abit pricey around 3-4 bills, unless you know someone to borrow from.
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I got one,35K btu. I guess ill throw that up there and warm the attic up to start melting from the inside as i'm outside chipping ice.

see4 said:
well if you can, consider drilling a 2+ inch diameter hole toward the bottom of your wall(s) for air circulation to pass through, this will help evaporate liquid water. to handle ice buildup within the walls, try pointing a portable heater at the wall. as for your grow room, one option would be to, once your grow is done, throw down some tomato and cucumber plants in there.. takes about 3 weeks for them to blow up big time.. that way, if appraisers need to go in there, you have veggies going.
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I like the veggie idea, i wasn't sure if i was going to grow over the summer because of heat, but this isn't a bad idea, not that i would want to fail, but if i lost a crop of tomatoes..lol..no big deal, plus it'll give me an idea on summer conditions..you so smart! Still doesn't address whether they would have an issue with a room that's not supposed to be there..

see4 said:
if you plan on trying to fix the problem yourself, one suggestion would be to somehow vent the heat from your grow lights up to the attic to prevent ice damns from forming.. you also need to better prepare yourself for the winter.. ice buildup comes from poorly irrigated roofing.
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The problem is actually being caused by poor interior sealing/insulation allowing heat into the attic, it warms the roof, the snow melts, runs to the eaves, which are at outside temps, then the water freezes . After a few cycles it builds into a dam. This year i will be cleaning out the attic( 50+ yrs of crap going back to my great grandparents - some of it in boxes that were taped up 30 yrs ago and haven't been opened since..), tearing up the floors, sealing all wall connections/light boxes/elec boxes/vents/etc., blowing in insulation, and putting in the rafter baffles. The roof needs to stay cold, not warm, to stop it.
 
I still can't picture how THAT much water is getting into your attic. I can understand some condensation, but rafters and joist gaps filling up 6-8 inches and causing structural damage, I'm not picturing it. You say the roof is new? Did you hire someone to do it? I would call them up and have them come take a looks. It could be a flaw in the roof installation, or a leak, and such may be under warranty. Good luck.
 
Hazydat620 said:
I still can't picture how THAT much water is getting into your attic. I can understand some condensation, but rafters and joist gaps filling up 6-8 inches and causing structural damage, I'm not picturing it. You say the roof is new? Did you hire someone to do it? I would call them up and have them come take a looks. It could be a flaw in the roof installation, or a leak, and such may be under warranty. Good luck.
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Yeah hired a well known local company, it's warranted, I'll be giving him a call at some point. New shingles, striped to the boards, some boards were replaced. I had siding/gutters done after the roof, and they had to replace some fascia boards and repair some other hidden rot behind the gutters and I'm wondering if those guys compromised something. That will be great if i get into a "its their fault, no its their fault" situation. I had to use some, um persuasive actions, to get the siding guys to stick to the agreed upon contract, they weren't going to reproduce the period correct trim on the house, which was agreed to and written in the contract, because they said they under quoted me and they weren't going to make "AS MUCH as they originally thought"..their exact words... I'm pretty sure they will do anything possible to avoid coming back here..and honestly if i don't have to deal with another contractor, it'll be fine by me.
 
WeedFreak78 said:
I like the veggie idea, i wasn't sure if i was going to grow over the summer because of heat, but this isn't a bad idea, not that i would want to fail, but if i lost a crop of tomatoes..lol..no big deal, plus it'll give me an idea on summer conditions..you so smart! Still doesn't address whether they would have an issue with a room that's not supposed to be there..
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they will only have an issue with a room that's not supposed to be there is you plan on selling the house. and depending on the state you live, they would likely not pull permits. what exactly did you do to this "unauthorized" room? is it simply 4 walls and some 240v wiring? if it's the wiring you are concerned about, just pay an electrician to do a quick rewiring, should be longer than 3 hours, at $85/hr ... you are looking at less than $300. if it's the permits you are worried about.. don't.
 
WeedFreak78 said:
Yeah hired a well known local company, it's warranted, I'll be giving him a call at some point. New shingles, striped to the boards, some boards were replaced. I had siding/gutters done after the roof, and they had to replace some fascia boards and repair some other hidden rot behind the gutters and I'm wondering if those guys compromised something. That will be great if i get into a "its their fault, no its their fault" situation. I had to use some, um persuasive actions, to get the siding guys to stick to the agreed upon contract, they weren't going to reproduce the period correct trim on the house, which was agreed to and written in the contract, because they said they under quoted me and they weren't going to make "AS MUCH as they originally thought"..their exact words... I'm pretty sure they will do anything possible to avoid coming back here..and honestly if i don't have to deal with another contractor, it'll be fine by me.
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I bet your gutters were clogged and made the gutters overflow, causing water to get under the shingles, or ultimately under the roof sheathing, flooding the attic. Probably happened in the fall then the quick onset of winter compounded the situation by freezing quickly. If I am picturing your situation right. I'm guessing your eaves are closed attic space all the way to the gutters, no open eve before you get to the side of the house and attic? The Flashing was probably poorly done at the drip edge at the gutter to make up for the money they lost on the extra work.
 
Hazydat620 said:
I bet your gutters were clogged and made the gutters overflow, causing water to get under the shingles, or ultimately under the roof sheathing, flooding the attic. Probably happened in the fall then the quick onset of winter compounded the situation by freezing quickly. If I am picturing your situation right. I'm guessing your eaves are closed attic space all the way to the gutters, no open eve before you get to the side of the house and attic? The Flashing was probably poorly done at the drip edge at the gutter to make up for the money they lost on the extra work.
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new gutters that i cleaned out end of nov. I had them move the downspout to the end of a 6' overhang..so it instantly freezes up, when it was against the house there was enough residual heat to keep it flowing.The roofers put in eave and ridge vents, but the siding guys covered the eaves with some perforated venting, so idk if the airflow is right now. I've realized another part of my problem is due to a bathroom vent fan exhaust and the plumbing vent being within about 2ft of each other warming up and melting that small section of roof which is 4-6' up from the gutter, then it freezing again at the edge, the rest of the roof wasn't nearly as bad as that one section, and thats the only area where water is getting in. I also saw that the one section of ceiling joist directly under the area has no insulation in it ..there was a strip of roof melted down 4-6" more than the rest of the roof.
I cut about 4 1' wide channels through and filled up some pantyhose with ice melt in other areas. I'm gonna take care of the heat loss into the attic today..we got 40's and rain coming tomorrow..gotta do something.
 
If you have any bathroom vent fans not properly vented to the outside but instead just ran into the attic they can allow tremendous amount of moisture into your attic area which will cause condensation and when it hits the cold air it turns into ice in the winter months and more problems such as mold in warmer times ......just something else to look for
 
oldtimer54 said:
If you have any bathroom vent fans not properly vented to the outside but instead just ran into the attic they can allow tremendous amount of moisture into your attic area which will cause condensation and when it hits the cold air it turns into ice in the winter months and more problems such as mold in warmer times ......just something else to look for
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It's properly vented and taped, but i do want to wrap it with some insulation, i noticed some condensation on the outside of the vent pipe in the attic, it's just bare metal 6" duct from where it comes out of the ceiling to the roof.

I'm fairly certain i stopped the majority of the issues, it rained all day yesterday and i didn't see and new water where it shouldn't have been, the channels and ice melt did their jobs, and the wet spots i had inside were already drying up. fingers crossed
 
Now Black mold is your problem...all the drywall must be stripped and removed...than treat the wood with heat and bleach and kilz primer...you must move out your family asap.
 
fandango said:
Now Black mold is your problem...all the drywall must be stripped and removed...than treat the wood with heat and bleach and kilz primer...you must move out your family asap.
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drywall..lol..it's all 2" thick plaster in this house...:wall:. This house had mold when we moved in 20+ years ago...between that and the lead..i should be dead..not that I'm making light of the situation, but my parents knew about the mold and never did anything about it the whole time they lived here. The leak was behind a wall along a bathroom that needs a rebuild, so i guess it's on more reason to do that this summer...Dealing with 20+ yrs of neglect is awesome...
 
Can you shop vac all that ice or melted ice with cat littler up then tarp and circulate warm air. Find where load bearing is and bypass with fulcrum and or use a come-a-long to tranfer weight. joices are made to be able to de load x y or z axis to repair. Just think you can do this
 
By your verbage and vernacular, i believe you,re a sharper tool in the shed than most. Most people cant grow. Think...you got this. I got an ozone generator for emergency smell elemanation.
 
what is the roof pitch?
any ice and water shield under the shingles?

you need insulate the ceiling joist area if the attic space is not conditioned space.

not good all around, water is THE enemy of houses
 
Commander Strax said:
what is the roof pitch?
any ice and water shield under the shingles?

you need insulate the ceiling joist area if the attic space is not conditioned space.

not good all around, water is THE enemy of houses
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Not sure of the actual pitch, i want to say somewhere around a 6/12 to 8/12, There was ice and water shield put 6' up from the edges, but like I had said previously the gutters were done after the roof and i don't know if those guys may have done something to compromise the integrity at the edge of the roof. I did deal with some of the insulation issues, I'm waiting till i can get my buddies truck so i can go grab some more rolls to finish up a couple bays in the attic that were never insulated, but just with what i did i noticed the whole attic was colder( much closer to outside temps) , and a more even temperature. I put a space heater next to the wall in the back room here i know it was leaking to hopefully help dry it out.
 
If the house is as old as I think it is and you mentioned plaster
I'm guessing there is little to no insulation in your walls.....it would be interesting to know the temps in the other rooms closest to your grow room . If there is a concentrated area of high temps and little to no insulation that would be something to address as best you could.....something I've done was to use 4inch PVC to remove heat and odor and to bring in fresh air thru the roof just as a plumbing vent pipe its a low cost method that works but I live in a rural area and not in a urban neighborhood its just something to think about .
 
oldtimer54 said:
If the house is as old as I think it is and you mentioned plaster
I'm guessing there is little to no insulation in your walls.....it would be interesting to know the temps in the other rooms closest to your grow room . If there is a concentrated area of high temps and little to no insulation that would be something to address as best you could.....something I've done was to use 4inch PVC to remove heat and odor and to bring in fresh air thru the roof just as a plumbing vent pipe its a low cost method that works but I live in a rural area and not in a urban neighborhood its just something to think about .
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House was built mid-late 40's. It didn't have any insulation in the walls until 2 yrs ago, we had blown in done in all the walls before the siding went up, i was supposed to finish insulating the attic last summer, but time/finances got in the way..paying for not prioritizing that now.
 
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