...All Things Vero...

[churchhaze]

It's just that vero 18 could be a few bucks cheaper... you know?

I probably would have went with vero 18 again had it been 9.50 a cob, but at it's current price, it will have a hard time competing with cxb2530 even in $/PAR W. You may even be paying more to get lower efficiency pretty soon unless prices seriously fall.

Quit you belly-aching ...



You know you liked it (the Vero treatment).

 

[Mechmike]

Oh ok cool seems simple enough to do, I don't think they make the 500 in that series but I'll get the 700 and dim it down. Thanks again guys!

OOOPS! You're absolutely right about the 80H. That's what I get for posting while baked. I was thinking 700ma and writing 500ma.

 

[nvhak49]

OOOPS! You're absolutely right about the 80H. That's what I get for posting while baked. I was thinking 700ma and writing 500ma.

Ha no worries man, I was pretty sure you met to say 700ma, I make mistakes a lot when I'm high lol I won't be making this veg light high tho I want it to be made good and safe!

 

[churchhaze]

It would be very nice if 80H had a 500mA version.

 

[AquariusPanta]

It's just that vero 18 could be a few bucks cheaper... you know?

I probably would have went with vero 18 again had it been 9.50 a cob, but at it's current price, it will have a hard time competing with cxb2530 even in $/PAR W. You may even be paying more to get lower efficiency pretty soon unless prices seriously fall.

You don't think it's properly priced as it is ($13)? I think they were priced a little higher when I first bought a pair of 4000K's last fall. With any new product, I expect the price to rise; anything new gives the provider a reason to jack with prices. Vero version 2 shouldn't be an exception.

I trekked a few of the links you've shared over the past couple days regarding the CXB2530 and it undoubtedly competes with the Vero 18. Of course you're paying for efficiency with Cree and instant-functionality with Vero. I noticed the Ideal Holders for the 2530 are around $2, so not a terrible cost to add on but it does add up.

You could buy two Vero 18's for the price of one CXB2530 w/ holder. I suppose if money isn't a huge concern, then Cree products are the way to go.

 

[churchhaze]

You don't think it's properly priced as it is ($13)? I think they were priced a little higher when I first bought a pair of 4000K's last fall. With any new product, I expect the price to rise; anything new gives the provider a reason to jack with prices. Vero version 2 shouldn't be an exception.

I trekked a few of the links you've shared over the past couple days regarding the CXB2530 and it undoubtedly competes with the Vero 18. Of course you're paying for efficiency with Cree and instant-functionality with Vero. I noticed the Ideal Holders for the 2530 are around $2, so not a terrible cost to add on but it does add up.

You could buy two Vero 18's for the price of one CXB2530 w/ holder. I suppose if money isn't a huge concern, then Cree products are the way to go.

So the second part of that private conversation, another quote from @SupraSPL from private message:

Oh, I was going by the price for 1 CBX2530. If you bought all 100, not including shipping, the price would change from this:

CXB2350 3K U2 @ .5A = 17.42W -> 49.1% -> $2.82/PAR W
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .8A = 28.8W -> 44.2% -> $1.90/PAR W (test current)

to this

CXB2350 3K U2 @ .5A = 17.42W -> 49.1% -> $1.96/PAR W
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .8A = 28.8W -> 44.2% -> $1.32/PAR W (test current)

That price per PAR W if you get 100 is a crushing blow. This is why I say vero 18 needs to significantly reduce the price of their vero 18 ver 1.2 if they still want to boast cheaper PAR W price up front.

From a few posts ago, supra wrote:

Vero18 3K V1.2 ->700mA (20W) -> 39.6% -> $1.60/PAR W
Vero18 3K V2.0 -> 700mA (20W) -> 42.2% -> $1.51/PAR W, assuming the price is the same as Vero 1.2.

 

[AquariusPanta]

So the second part of that private conversation, another quote from @SupraSPL from private message:



That price per PAR W if you get 100 is a crushing blow. This is why I say vero 18 needs to significantly reduce the price of their vero 18 ver 1.2 if they still want to boast cheaper PAR W price up front.

From a few posts ago, supra wrote:

Well if Digikey offered the same kind of break for the Vero 18s then it would be fair game but they don't and I've emailed Bridgelux about this, only to find out the Bridgelux's emailing system sucks (the only time I've ever received an email, after sending an email days prior, telling me what I sent failed to 'land', from their automatic email system).

Also consider that Cree products are in high-demand (my impression) and one won't always be able to buy 100x because the provider may not have 100x in stock. This brings up a good question: could you order 50x of say 4000K and 50x of 3000K? Would that count towards the bulk discount? Just wondering.

Besides money, you really can't go wrong with Cree; they boast the best numbers, thanks in part to @SupraSPL.

BTW, Supra, does Cree know about the charity work you've been putting in?

 

[churchhaze]

100 is hardly considered bulk. You could get 1000 of them for $13,125.00 ($13.125 each) and sell them back for slightly less than what digikey is selling for 1 ($24.15000)

Think about this as a short term business opportunity. If any of digikeys competitors do this, the price per 1 will drop slightly, unless they are are a cartel... Any joe schmoe could get 100 for 1,680.0 (16.80 each) and sell them back for 24.15. Those prices should close fast.

Well if Digikey offered the same kind of break for the Vero 18s then it would be fair game but they don't and I've emailed Bridgelux about this, only to find out the Bridgelux's emailing system sucks (the only time I've ever received an email, after sending an email days prior, telling me what I sent failed to 'land', from their automatic email system).

Also consider that Cree products are in high-demand (my impression) and one won't always be able to buy 100x because the provider may not have 100x in stock. This brings up a good question: could you order 50x of say 4000K and 50x of 3000K? Would that count towards the bulk discount? Just wondering.

Besides money, you really can't go wrong with Cree; they boast the best numbers, thanks in part to @SupraSPL.

BTW, Supra, does Cree know about the charity work you've been putting in?

 

[AquariusPanta]

100 is hardly considered bulk. You could get 1000 of them for $13,125.00 ($13.125 each) and sell them back for slightly less than what digikey is selling for 1 ($24.15000)

Think about this as a short term business opportunity. If any of digikeys competitors do this, the price per 1 will drop slightly, unless they are are a cartel... Any joe schmoe could get 100 for 1,680.0 (16.80 each) and sell them back for 24.15. Those prices should close fast.

You bring up a brilliant point/possibility, Churchhaze; Anything's possible.

But don't overlook my point on availability. As of now, Digikey only carries two types of the 2530, with a total of ~230 in all. This means sooner or later, you, as the consumer, won't have the ability to get the huge break from buying 100x or 1000x COBs. I'm not business owner (one day, maybe so) but it would be a BIG bonehead mistake on DK's part to actually allow that possibility. In other words, I HIGHLY doubt DK is going to stock up on 1000x of any select model of that series. It just doesn't make any sense and if they do stock up on it, as a business it would be in their best interest to prevent any big money schemers to take advantage of the price break system that they offer.

I'm still pissed off (before we entered this topic, Church) that DK doesn't offer price breaks on the Vero 18 (ok, if you buy like 1000x you get ~$0.10 off each COB, WOOHOO).

 

[churchhaze]

The reason you don't get price breaks off 100x with vero 18 is because that market has already reached equilibrium. Too many people already bought at the 100x rate to sell at the 1x rate, so the 1x rate got nearly as low as the 100x rate. Good trading opportunities where you can flip instantly for a large profit like that close themselves naturally. The arbitrage opportunity outright defines how the options market works. (and the bond market's yield curve too for that matter)

Everyone's looking for riskless profit.

 

[AquariusPanta]

The reason you don't get price breaks off 100x with vero 18 is because that market has already reached equilibrium. Too many people already bought at the 100x rate to sell at the 1x rate, so the 1x rate got nearly as low as the 100x rate. Good trading opportunities where you can flip instantly for a large profit like that close themselves naturally. The arbitrage opportunity outright defines how the options market works. (and the bond market's yield curve too for that matter)

Everyone's looking for riskless profit.

You make a good teacher.

That's twice now this week that I've learned something very important from you.

 

[AquariusPanta]

So Newark is offering a voucher code that knocks off 15% of all items, including Vero products.

Voucher Code FEBNEW15

 

[churchhaze]

Maybe they will pickup the cxb2530 3000k U2 bin and you can get that 15% off.. lol

So Newark is offering a voucher code that knocks off 15% of all items, including Vero products.

Voucher Code FEBNEW15

 

[tightpockt]

.

My veg light has 10 Vero 18 all driven by a single Meanwell HLG-120H-C500B. I use it for clones all the way up to when I transfer them into the flowering area. With the dimmable driver I can run at very low currents when they're real small and slowly increase the current to 500ma in the final phase of veg.View attachment 3359323View attachment 3359324

Real professional looking job on that light. I'm loving the plate on top of the fins to direct air flow and the reflector panels on the side are sweet too.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Maybe they will pickup the cxb2530 3000k U2 bin and you can get that 15% off.. lol

The Ideal holders don't support Pico EZ-mate connections do they? If they did, I'd consider picking up a few.


U2 bin? What does that even mean lol? I know grade A eggs are supposedly the better of the bunch but have no clue on what to make of U2.

 

[churchhaze]

The Ideal holders don't support Pico EZ-mate connections do they? If they did, I'd consider picking up a few.


U2 bin? What does that even mean lol? I know grade A eggs are supposedly the better of the bunch but have no clue on what to make of U2.

I'm not exactly sure how the wires connect to the ideal holder. I think you just clamp them in or something.

U2 bin is the top bin for the cxb2530 3000k 80cri.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds CXB2530.pdf

On the 7th page, there's a table called "performance groups - Brightness" that shows what each flux bin means. In short, they are absolute luminous flux values. U2 is 3680-3955 lumens at test current. There is no U4 bin for the 3000k, but if there was, it would be 3955-4230 lumens at test current.

All of the 70cri versions seem to have a V2 bin listed, which is 4230-4545 lumens at test current.

 

[AquariusPanta]

I'm not exactly sure how the wires connect to the ideal holder. I think you just clamp them in or something.

U2 bin is the top bin for the cxb2530 3000k 80cri.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds CXB2530.pdf

On the 7th page, there's a table called "performance groups - Brightness" that shows what each flux bin means. In short, they are absolute luminous flux values. U2 is 3680-3955 lumens at test current. There is no U4 bin for the 3000k, but if there was, it would be 3955-4230 lumens at test current.

All of the 70cri versions seem to have a V2 bin listed, which is 4230-4545 lumens at test current.

Looks like V4 is the cat's meow for the CXB2530. Those numbers for the U2 are phenomenal and yet the V2-4 will boast even higher efficiency.

 

[churchhaze]

Digikey shipping with priority mail wins. These cxb2530 are so tiny! (but in reality, the LES is a few tenths of a millimeter wider in diameter than the vero 18. I'll probably get some pictures up when the ideal holders and sinks are here. Maybe I'll make a non-general thread on the build! lol

 

[AquariusPanta]

Digikey shipping with priority mail wins. These cxb2530 are so tiny! (but in reality, the LES is a few tenths of a millimeter wider in diameter than the vero 18. I'll probably get some pictures up when the ideal holders and sinks are here. Maybe I'll make a non-general thread on the build! lol

Please do!

 

[nvhak49]

Kinda a dumb question but what size of screws and tap are you guys using to mount vero 18s and what thermal paste?