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Decreasing Yields - What is going on?

Medicanman

Active Member
I can't explain it but my yields have been decreasing with each grow for the last 3 grows.

I've been using the same strains and same nutrient regiment. I grow two strains, a sativa and an indica. The same strains I have been growing since the beginning. I don't keep mothers. I've been taking clones from my plants just before I flip. I veg them while the others are flowering and top them twice. When the flower cycle is done I put them into the big pots, veg them for a month, then flip. This is always how I have done it. It works perfectly with my plant count and keeps everything legal. I don't have the space to keep a mother room.

I was growing under 3x1000 watt HPS. Three cycles ago I switched to cool tubes and added another 1000 hps. Despite the extra light, my yield decreased by a small margin. The last two cycles were worse. I was getting an average of 100 grams per plant under 3 lights. It dropped to 90 with the cool tubes, then to 75. Now I am down to 50. I keep the tubes clean/dirt free and fresh lamps every second cycle. This last cycle was with fresh lamps and its worse than ever. The reason I switched to cool tubes was obviously temperature control. With 3 lights it was taxing my heat pump unit in the summer and temperatures were getting higher than I liked. I actually use less power with 4 lights than I did with 3 because the heat pump does not work nearly as hard and doesn't have to run at all in the winter months.

I have two theories and it may be a combination of both. I think the cool tubes are partially killing my yields. The glass is blocking some of the light and the reflectors are not as efficient. Is it that simple?

The other theory is that my plants are cloned out. I've been taking clones of clones for better part of two years now. I've been reading on the subject... some say its possible but others say its not.

The plants are just as healthy looking as they always were but the buds are just not as fat. The quality of high is the same, as is the taste. No other factors have changed except the yield.

Anyone have any ideas?
 

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
If you have magnetic ballasts, replace the caps in them. They fade with time.
What brand bulbs? And how old are they?
 

Medicanman

Active Member
Could just be the genetics degrading with each clone cycle. Maybe get some new stock?
That is what I'm trying to figure out. If its true it sucks because these strains were very nice.

Its too late for this cycle. The clones have been planted and started. I'd have to get some stock and get this going for the next cycle. From seed to a healthy, clonable mom is like 3 months.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
I've cloned clones for 7 years with no change. Even if clones 'degrade,' you wouldn't see changes like that, it would happen gradually.
Different dtrains might behave differently. So unless you were cloning a bunch of different strains over that time period, I don't think that your experience precludes the possibility. I imagine some strains don't even clone well at all for just one generation. It would make for an interesting scientific study.
 

Medicanman

Active Member
I'd been cloning these for 2 years or so. Everything was fine until the last 3 cycles.

The major change was the addition of the cool tubes and an extra light. Before that it was good. The other thing that occurred is my night time temps were very low this time because its very cold out. I got down as low as 55 on some nights even running a small heater. It was too cold outside to run the heatpump. Only runs until -15C
 

*BUDS

Well-Known Member
Its not the lights that's for sure. Clones should always be the same as the original mother plant but genetic drift can happen especially with what you are doing ,a clone from a clone from a clone and so on. Had you have taken clones from an original mother the clones would always be an exact copy .

By Ed Rosenthal - Thursday, May 30 2002

Do clones lose potency after a few generations or after stress?

The potential of a plant is determined by its genetics. Unlike seeds, clones are virtually exact genetic duplicates of the plants from which they are taken.

Although there is a slight genetic drift over many generations of cloning, this phenomenon occurs very slowly.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
I can't explain it but my yields have been decreasing with each grow for the last 3 grows.

I've been using the same strains and same nutrient regiment. I grow two strains, a sativa and an indica. The same strains I have been growing since the beginning. I don't keep mothers. I've been taking clones from my plants just before I flip. I veg them while the others are flowering and top them twice. When the flower cycle is done I put them into the big pots, veg them for a month, then flip. This is always how I have done it. It works perfectly with my plant count and keeps everything legal. I don't have the space to keep a mother room.

I was growing under 3x1000 watt HPS. Three cycles ago I switched to cool tubes and added another 1000 hps. Despite the extra light, my yield decreased by a small margin. The last two cycles were worse. I was getting an average of 100 grams per plant under 3 lights. It dropped to 90 with the cool tubes, then to 75. Now I am down to 50. I keep the tubes clean/dirt free and fresh lamps every second cycle. This last cycle was with fresh lamps and its worse than ever. The reason I switched to cool tubes was obviously temperature control. With 3 lights it was taxing my heat pump unit in the summer and temperatures were getting higher than I liked. I actually use less power with 4 lights than I did with 3 because the heat pump does not work nearly as hard and doesn't have to run at all in the winter months.

I have two theories and it may be a combination of both. I think the cool tubes are partially killing my yields. The glass is blocking some of the light and the reflectors are not as efficient. Is it that simple?

The other theory is that my plants are cloned out. I've been taking clones of clones for better part of two years now. I've been reading on the subject... some say its possible but others say its not.

The plants are just as healthy looking as they always were but the buds are just not as fat. The quality of high is the same, as is the taste. No other factors have changed except the yield.

Anyone have any ideas?
Are the cool tubes penetrating inside your canopy like the previous reflectors did? Doubt it has anything to do with cloning from clones.
 

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
How old are your bulbs?


Itsme.
If you have magnetic ballasts, replace the caps in them. They fade with time.
What brand bulbs? And how old are they?
For some reason, the OP hasn't answered my original question. Whatevur! Lol
I'd been cloning these for 2 years or so. Everything was fine until the last 3 cycles.

The major change was the addition of the cool tubes and an extra light. Before that it was good. The other thing that occurred is my night time temps were very low this time because its very cold out. I got down as low as 55 on some nights even running a small heater. It was too cold outside to run the heatpump. Only runs until -15C
Colder temps absolutely can decrease yeilds.
 

torontoke

Well-Known Member
The cool tubes had the same effect on my buddies room. He tried everything even running clear hose instead of ducting between the tubes.
It seems like an unfortunate compromise to the temp regulating.

Simplest way to test if thats the cause is to switch the tubes back out and see if your yield goes back up.
Im sure it would.

Perhaps add an exhaust fan or upgrade what you currently have and get rid of the tubes.
 

941mick

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna say old bulbs.

I Did a grow with a 5 month old hortilux and a brand new sunmaster and the sunmaster killed the hortilux in flower size. Glass can also drop yields but it wouldn't be dramatic.
 

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
I can't explain it but my yields have been decreasing with each grow for the last 3 grows.

I've been using the same strains and same nutrient regiment. I grow two strains, a sativa and an indica. The same strains I have been growing since the beginning. I don't keep mothers. I've been taking clones from my plants just before I flip. I veg them while the others are flowering and top them twice. When the flower cycle is done I put them into the big pots, veg them for a month, then flip. This is always how I have done it. It works perfectly with my plant count and keeps everything legal. I don't have the space to keep a mother room.

I was growing under 3x1000 watt HPS. Three cycles ago I switched to cool tubes and added another 1000 hps. Despite the extra light, my yield decreased by a small margin. The last two cycles were worse. I was getting an average of 100 grams per plant under 3 lights. It dropped to 90 with the cool tubes, then to 75. Now I am down to 50. I keep the tubes clean/dirt free and fresh lamps every second cycle. This last cycle was with fresh lamps and its worse than ever. The reason I switched to cool tubes was obviously temperature control. With 3 lights it was taxing my heat pump unit in the summer and temperatures were getting higher than I liked. I actually use less power with 4 lights than I did with 3 because the heat pump does not work nearly as hard and doesn't have to run at all in the winter months.

I have two theories and it may be a combination of both. I think the cool tubes are partially killing my yields. The glass is blocking some of the light and the reflectors are not as efficient. Is it that simple?

The other theory is that my plants are cloned out. I've been taking clones of clones for better part of two years now. I've been reading on the subject... some say its possible but others say its not.

The plants are just as healthy looking as they always were but the buds are just not as fat. The quality of high is the same, as is the taste. No other factors have changed except the yield.

Anyone have any ideas?
Using a vented hood with glass takes about 7% of your lumens away from your canopy (if its clean)

(I get about 20% more yield with open hoods) But I have to run an A.C. and fresh air intake at night when lights are on.

Also run an environmental controller to pull hot air from too of room through mybcarbon to the attic space.

Little more equipment, but I dont think ill ever put the glass back in my mMagnus xxl hoods



My guesses-

Nutrients are old/got too warm for a period of time

Temp swings got ya on development


Grow one plant with your old reflectors and use your cool tube on another and see if your losing lumens
 

bigsteve

Well-Known Member
Theory 1 -- The only major variable you have tweaked is the lights, so my vote goes here.
Theory 2 -- I have experienced the exact same phenomen with my perpetual grow in 2014. I was around the 12th generation of Blueberry Gum from G13 Labs and my clones started to get smaller and scrawnier. Problem was I hadn't tweaked any of the variables on my commercial grow. Why mess with a good thing, eh? So, I'd suggest trying some plants from seedlings and grow them alongside some of your clones. See for yourself if the clones thrive as well as the seedlings.

Finally, I discovered that a good flush 2 weeks before harvest seems to up the bud size a bit.

Good luck, BigSteve.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Theory 1 -- The only major variable you have tweaked is the lights, so my vote goes here.
Theory 2 -- I have experienced the exact same phenomen with my perpetual grow in 2014. I was around the 12th generation of Blueberry Gum from G13 Labs and my clones started to get smaller and scrawnier. Problem was I hadn't tweaked any of the variables on my commercial grow. Why mess with a good thing, eh? So, I'd suggest trying some plants from seedlings and grow them alongside some of your clones. See for yourself if the clones thrive as well as the seedlings.

Finally, I discovered that a good flush 2 weeks before harvest seems to up the bud size a bit.

Good luck, BigSteve.
lol.:dunce:
 
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