What colors do fruits prefer?

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Usually we're all talking about yielding more mass in flowers, but what if we were using LEDs to grow berries or fruits?

What is the best spectrum for tomatoes? Strawberries? Citrus?

My guess for strawberries is more blue and red, less yellow, and no far-red would work well. Would 5000k 70cri LEDs work well for strawberries? Maybe with 660nm supplementation for high Pfr levels?

What about hot peppers? I have very little experience with indoor fruits.

Has anyone tried using R+B for fruits rather than flowers?
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I have never grown tomatoes before, but the main difference is that you don't grow tomatoes for their flowers and their resin content, but instead for their sugar, vitamin C, and potassium ,etc. What might make tomatoes good (sugar) might make weed bad.

Scotch089 said:
I love this topic, it'd be awesome to find some solid articles about this. I'm assuming tomatoes are going to be very close to cannabis
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AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
I'm actually growing some tomatoes and peppers (both hot and sweet) under my Vero 18s (a few 3Ks, 3.5Ks, and 4Ks).

So far so good, although I believe the direct force of 140W @2ft. above canopy levels may be drying out the little pockets of soil set in place for the seedlings.

Anyhow, I believe the tomatoes will be easy to satisfy in terms of maintenance. The peppers, maybe not. It's my first time growing these fruits and vegetables so I'm clueless myself, Churchhaze, on what things work best.

I'll be happy if I can produce a single tomato and pepper!
 
mc130p

mc130p

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
I'm actually growing some tomatoes and peppers (both hot and sweet) under my Vero 18s (a few 3Ks, 3.5Ks, and 4Ks).

So far so good, although I believe the direct force of 140W @2ft. above canopy levels may be drying out the little pockets of soil set in place for the seedlings.

Anyhow, I believe the tomatoes will be easy to satisfy in terms of maintenance. The peppers, maybe not. It's my first time growing these fruits and vegetables so I'm clueless myself, Churchhaze, on what things work best.

I'll be happy if I can produce a single tomato and pepper!
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I've been thinking about growing my own peppers, tomatoes, and some lettuce indoors....I hope you guys post some pics in a thread somewhere!
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
I would think strawberries can go without hardcore 660nm supplementation. They are cool season, so they bloom very early, one of the earliest of fruits in a cold locale anyways....so you maybe onto something with 5k, but even that is a little extreme, maybe 4k would hit the sweet spot a bit better.

I like the Vero 3500k so far. for greens especially, although my tomatoes dug it.....still working on what spectrums work best.... but so far 16-18 hours on.......I have a single serrano doing quite well along with ...Green wave [j. mustard], heirloom chives, dill..

Kale doesn't seem to like the spectrum, but it is a early bloomer too, and it might not like the 18hrs first, then the spectrum.....BUT onions and aliums in general [chives, onions, garlic etc] seem to thrive a bit, which is weird in that they thrive in similar conditions as the kale when young....

Spinach hates the 3.5K.....I have magnesium loss BAD in my spinach starts....
 
_MrBelvedere_

_MrBelvedere_

Well-Known Member
If you call this company, they specialize in commercial LED for huge grows. They can customize the spectrum to your plant, and probably advise what plant loves which spectrum:

http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/

Also, their bigger professional lights spydr 600 and spydr 1000 can be customized based on their analysis of what you are growing. Made in Texas! http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/ Check them out and give em a call :)
 
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deadgro

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
I would think strawberries can go without hardcore 660nm supplementation. They are cool season, so they bloom very early, one of the earliest of fruits in a cold locale anyways....so you maybe onto something with 5k, but even that is a little extreme, maybe 4k would hit the sweet spot a bit better.

I like the Vero 3500k so far. for greens especially, although my tomatoes dug it.....still working on what spectrums work best.... but so far 16-18 hours on.......I have a single serrano doing quite well along with ...Green wave [j. mustard], heirloom chives, dill..

Kale doesn't seem to like the spectrum, but it is a early bloomer too, and it might not like the 18hrs first, then the spectrum.....BUT onions and aliums in general [chives, onions, garlic etc] seem to thrive a bit, which is weird in that they thrive in similar conditions as the kale when young....

Spinach hates the 3.5K.....I have magnesium loss BAD in my spinach starts....
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Plants uptake all available nutrients no matter what kind of light they're getting. They might need a different mix of nutes or there's a pH problem.
 
_MrBelvedere_

_MrBelvedere_

Well-Known Member
deadgro said:
Plants uptake all available nutrients no matter what kind of light they're getting. They might need a different mix of nutes or there's a pH problem.
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That is true, I think he was talking about absolutely optimizing the plant growth so it shows its best traits.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Jalapenos grown under a HPS are ridiculously big, this grow store near my house has a couple jalapeno plants under a 1000w hps and they are like small football sized peppers, biggest ive ever seen from indoors.
 
Meinolf

Meinolf

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Jalapenos grown under a HPS are ridiculously big, this grow store near my house has a couple jalapeno plants under a 1000w hps and they are like small football sized peppers, biggest ive ever seen from indoors.
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:shock: Are you sure those are Jalapenos? I'm interested in that. Would you provide a picture?
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I've read somewhere that HPS produces greater yield of wheat crops, but that MH produces more chlorophyll content per plant mass. If fruits are larger with HPS, does it imply they have less nutritional value?

I'm only making guesses, I have never tried any of this and don't know if there's any scientific grounds for larger, but less nutritious fruits using HPS. I only read about that for wheat.

I did read, however(from scienceinhydroponics.com), that feeding hydroponic tomatoes with a higher EC nutrient solution causes smaller fruit with greater nutritional value and flavor. If i'm going to be growing fruits indoors with LEDs, I would obviously prefer flavor and nutritional value over size and market appeal.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
This is all very good info. So some crops did well under 3500k while others did poorly.

It seems like magnesium deficiency (or at least what people call magnesium deficiency) is a common issue when using "LEDs", so maybe some particular condition that stimulates the usage of magnesium to build chlorophyll I'm guessing. I'm thinking this could be a good thing if you can compensate for the deficiencies, then technically your fruit, leaves, stems, would have more of whatever that nutrient was.

What I'm thinking is that if a particular wavelength or spectrum is causing more magnesium and iron to be taken up, it's also likely that the spinach will also contain more magnesium and iron to be present in your salad. It would be great if someone already cracked the code and it's already obvious to farmers that specialize in those crops.

Abiqua said:
I would think strawberries can go without hardcore 660nm supplementation. They are cool season, so they bloom very early, one of the earliest of fruits in a cold locale anyways....so you maybe onto something with 5k, but even that is a little extreme, maybe 4k would hit the sweet spot a bit better.

I like the Vero 3500k so far. for greens especially, although my tomatoes dug it.....still working on what spectrums work best.... but so far 16-18 hours on.......I have a single serrano doing quite well along with ...Green wave [j. mustard], heirloom chives, dill..

Kale doesn't seem to like the spectrum, but it is a early bloomer too, and it might not like the 18hrs first, then the spectrum.....BUT onions and aliums in general [chives, onions, garlic etc] seem to thrive a bit, which is weird in that they thrive in similar conditions as the kale when young....

Spinach hates the 3.5K.....I have magnesium loss BAD in my spinach starts....
Click to expand...
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
This is great, and exactly the type of journal or reference to journal I'm curious about.

This point in particular was very encouraging:

".. with petunia cuttings...They found that a key floral volatile called 2-phenylethanol increased when the plant was exposed to red and far-red treatments. They conducted similar tests on tomato, strawberry, and blueberry, finding that flavor volatiles in each of those fruits could be manipulated with light. Blueberry volatiles changed the least, but the changes were still statistically significant"




deadgro said:
Found this, interesting read.

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/2013/07/study-finds-that-light-wavelength-impacts-flavor-scent-of-plants-and-fruits.html
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CellarDweller

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
This is great, and exactly the type of journal or reference to journal I'm curious about.

This point in particular was very encouraging:

".. with petunia cuttings...They found that a key floral volatile called 2-phenylethanol increased when the plant was exposed to red and far-red treatments. They conducted similar tests on tomato, strawberry, and blueberry, finding that flavor volatiles in each of those fruits could be manipulated with light. Blueberry volatiles changed the least, but the changes were still statistically significant"
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So whilst the targeting of light is good and the specific spectra is I am sure relevant to specific processes within the specific crop, if there was a way of diffusing the wide-band light of a COB (or multiple COBs in one reflector at different angles to spread the light better) - would this not be a better option?

Say 1 x 3000k and 1 x 5000k light?

Also, having studied the PPF figures over a year for Spain and Italy at various locations and correlating that against the "natural" farming methodologies, this approach would seem to stack up: high intensity light drinking consumable veg is grown in direct sun, leafy is often times protected with a diffusing layer of film/glass.

@Abiqua ....I have read that high Nitrogen and Potassium levels can interfere with Magnesium uptake.....also are you sure it's a deficiency and not a a disease like Spinach Blight? Apologies in advance if this vexes you (sometimes people butting in can be annoying!).....just wanting to help.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
maybe 4000k-5000k. I've seen the guys at inda gro grow tomatoes under their lights. They did do hydro flood n drain. They also have a green house with the Inda gros growing all kinds of veggies.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
I've been using two, 42W 4000k vero 18's for my little vegi/herb/nursery garden. For a while I had a 97cri 2700k vero 18 in there as well, but it caused the herbs to want to bolt. Not always desirable, so I removed it. Thus far I'm very happy with the general growth I get from the 4000k vero's alone. Strawberry's and tomatoes will both grow vigorously and flower. Purple basil will actually be purple. The aloe, well I don't think it really cares.... These two leds beat the pants off the 125w cfl I had previously.

churchhaze said:
I have never grown tomatoes before, but the main difference is that you don't grow tomatoes for their flowers
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That isn't strictly true. Can't have fruit without flowers after all. :P I imagine most flowering/fruiting plants will grow well under lamps designed for flowering cannabis. More flowers=more fruit.

Plants like lettuce, where flowering is undesirable, would probably be fine under lamps for vegetative growth.

3000/3500k for tomatoes, 5000k for lettuce and basil. Maybe.
 
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