Two cops got shot in Ferguson last night

[ginwilly]

Police have broad discretion in their jobs, for many very good reasons. Had I refused to let them in the first night, they would have (reasonably or not) expected that I HAD something to hide and they would have treated me accordingly.

After all, I have several pounds of product in jars just sitting on my desk. They COULD easily have deduced I was preparing to distribute it illegally and charged me with same. A charge is not guilt- but I would then have been in the position of having to explain in court why I had so much. That's expensive and time consuming and fraught with its own risks.

Instead, I told them I had nothing to hide and let them look around. That kind of trust paid benefits.

If you were the guy behind the badge, there's no way you'd treat those two situations the same. Why not? Because (McCarthyist as it might sound) people with nothing to hide don't act like they have something to hide. Becoming antagonistic would have invited them to do the same, and they have ALL the power in this situation.

If that's not explanation enough, then I wish you luck in your next traffic stop... cuz you're gonna need it.

It would be awesome for the rest of us if you had set up cameras and politely refused on constitutional grounds, not so awesome for you I'd guess.

What you did was show those cops that we are just people, and because of your actions, they are likely to treat the next person they have to inspect a little better. If we all acted that way(easier said then done when in that situation) I would hope the cops would think, pot heads are the nicest people, let's leave them alone.

Still would have been more entertaining for all of us if you had been all militant and filmed it, but imo you did it the right way.

Still, 3 inspections in a week? Sucks for you man, that's brutal. I hate this damn war on drugs.

 

[UncleBuck]

If we all acted that way(easier said then done when in that situation) I would hope the cops would think, pot heads are the nicest people, let's leave them alone.

if we all acted like that, they'd just resort to worse measures. they'd manufacture evidence or stick you to the wall for the slightest infraction before too long.

it's stupid to invite the police in without a warrant even if you have nothing to hide. i've refused searches and they never came back and never gave me shit.

 

[ttystikk]

It would be awesome for the rest of us if you had set up cameras and politely refused on constitutional grounds, not so awesome for you I'd guess.

What you did was show those cops that we are just people, and because of your actions, they are likely to treat the next person they have to inspect a little better. If we all acted that way(easier said then done when in that situation) I would hope the cops would think, pot heads are the nicest people, let's leave them alone.

Still would have been more entertaining for all of us if you had been all militant and filmed it, but imo you did it the right way.

Still, 3 inspections in a week? Sucks for you man, that's brutal. I hate this damn war on drugs.

It was three in a month and to be clear, I wasn't in full compliance the second time- which made the third visit necessary. Not their fault, that was on me.

This is a new situation and everyone is still trying to find their way through it.

I did think about the scenario you suggest- and thought better of it. Don't the police have better things to do than deal with someone testing their constitutional boundaries and seeing just how far they'll go?

And since I WAS so cooperative, if they'd acted like Jack booted fascist thugs anyway, wouldn't have have a much stronger case?

I LIKE being a friendly ambassador for us good guys who just want to grow our weed in peace. It leaves a better taste in everyone's mouth.

Don't you agree?

 

[NoDrama]

Police have broad discretion in their jobs, for many very good reasons. Had I refused to let them in the first night, they would have (reasonably or not) expected that I HAD something to hide and they would have treated me accordingly.

After all, I have several pounds of product in jars just sitting on my desk. They COULD easily have deduced I was preparing to distribute it illegally and charged me with same. A charge is not guilt- but I would then have been in the position of having to explain in court why I had so much. That's expensive and time consuming and fraught with its own risks.

Instead, I told them I had nothing to hide and let them look around. That kind of trust paid benefits.

If you were the guy behind the badge, there's no way you'd treat those two situations the same. Why not? Because (McCarthyist as it might sound) people with nothing to hide don't act like they have something to hide. Becoming antagonistic would have invited them to do the same, and they have ALL the power in this situation.

If that's not explanation enough, then I wish you luck in your next traffic stop... cuz you're gonna need it.

Refusing a search cannot be used as reasonable suspicion that there is something you wish to hide. Any LEO who feels you have antagonized them by standing up for your rights does not deserve a single ounce of respect.

 

[NoDrama]

The police have absolutely no duty or responsibility to stop crime. The supreme court has already ruled on the matter.
police investigate crimes and arrest criminals, they don't stop shit other than what their presence might do to assuage such actions.

 

[ttystikk]

if we all acted like that, they'd just resort to worse measures. they'd manufacture evidence or stick you to the wall for the slightest infraction before too long.

it's stupid to invite the police in without a warrant even if you have nothing to hide. i've refused searches and they never came back and never gave me shit.

You and I are gonna have to disagree on this one.

This is my community too. I don't want to force the cops into getting a warrant for every busybody neighbor complaint who whines about smell.

The cops have better things to do, and for my taxpayer dollars- let alone my safety and that of the larger community- I want to let them get on with doing it.

Your attitude places the police in an adversarial position. I DON'T WANT them to feel that way about me, my profession or my home. The police aren't my enemies- the thugs and fools they chase down every night are my enemies because THEY'RE the danger to the community, not me.

In point of fact, I want them to feel like I'm the kind of citizen they went through all the hassle of becoming cops to PROTECT. Because, I am. Aren't you?

 

[ginwilly]

It was three in a month and to be clear, I wasn't in full compliance the second time- which made the third visit necessary. Not their fault, that was on me.

This is a new situation and everyone is still trying to find their way through it.

I did think about the scenario you suggest- and thought better of it. Don't the police have better things to do than deal with someone testing their constitutional boundaries and seeing just how far they'll go?

And since I WAS so cooperative, if they'd acted like Jack booted fascist thugs anyway, wouldn't have have a much stronger case?

I LIKE being a friendly ambassador for us good guys who just want to grow our weed in peace. It leaves a better taste in everyone's mouth.

Don't you agree?

3 in a month is less shitty than 3 in a week. Still shitty though.

I can't blame you for non-compliance on something we should never have to comply with to begin with but it is what it is.

I don't see being nice as a sign of weakness, I'm sure those cops didn't either.

 

[UncleBuck]

You and I are gonna have to disagree on this one.

This is my community too. I don't want to force the cops into getting a warrant for every busybody neighbor complaint who whines about smell.

The cops have better things to do, and for my taxpayer dollars- let alone my safety and that of the larger community- I want to let them get on with doing it.

Your attitude places the police in an adversarial position. I DON'T WANT them to feel that way about me, my profession or my home. The police aren't my enemies- the thugs and fools they chase down every night are my enemies because THEY'RE the danger to the community, not me.

In point of fact, I want them to feel like I'm the kind of citizen they went through all the hassle of becoming cops to PROTECT. Because, I am. Aren't you?

they do not want to protect you, they are not out to help you, they are not gonna buy you pizza and help you trim.

the only thing they will do is charge you with a crime or play hall monitor looking for an infraction to charge you with.

they are only there to collect evidence, not solve the smell problem for the neighbors or pat you on the back.

 

[ttystikk]

The police have absolutely no duty or responsibility to stop crime. The supreme court has already ruled on the matter.
police investigate crimes and arrest criminals, they don't stop shit other than what their presence might do to assuage such actions.

WOW. I'm really glad you're not a cop.

Every officer I've spoken to feels passionately about their DUTY to prevent crime even more than mop up after it.

Maybe I haven't spoken to any bad cops, and that's very possible.

I am sure I'd rather it be this way than the alternative.

 

[ginwilly]

Refusing a search cannot be used as reasonable suspicion that there is something you wish to hide. Any LEO who feels you have antagonized them by standing up for your rights does not deserve a single ounce of respect.

I've heard of people getting arrested for resisting arrest. Sure they only spent a night in jail and had the case thrown out after spending serious money. I hate jackboots as much as anyone, but I think tty's actions were more helpful to the cause in the long run.

 

[NoDrama]

If you were under suspicion because you have a LICENSED operation that needs voluntary inspections that is an ENTIRELY different thing. You make it sound like the police were just showing up at your door asking to search your home for no reason whatsoever.

BTW smell cannot be used as reasonable suspicion when it comes to outside a residence.

 

[ttystikk]

3 in a month is less shitty than 3 in a week. Still shitty though.

I can't blame you for non-compliance on something we should never have to comply with to begin with but it is what it is.

I don't see being nice as a sign of weakness, I'm sure those cops didn't either.

EXACTLY. How much faster would we as a pot loving group of people get to that promised land of unlimited growing freedom if we challenged their every move? I'm thinking not at all, in fact it would move us in the opposite direction.

 

[DogKnot]

I listened to some interviews on TV last night of folks from Ferguson. The speculation from them seems to be that this is all a set up by white folks. Yea, thats what they were saying.

 

[ttystikk]

I've heard of people getting arrested for resisting arrest. Sure they only spent a night in jail and had the case thrown out after spending serious money. I hate jackboots as much as anyone, but I think tty's actions were more helpful to the cause in the long run.

Ferguson, MO police made a habit of doing exactly this. They're being held to account NOW, but only after how long and how many people abused?

I did say I took a calculated risk by cooperating first and letting them see for themselves that I'm not a danger to them or society. I'm relieved it worked out in my favor, no doubt.

I'm well aware that I'm an ambassador for everyone who wants to grow and be left alone, and I daresay I got a lot more respect for that cause by cooperating than by trying to stand my constitutional ground and telling them off.

 

[ginwilly]

If you were under suspicion because you have a LICENSED operation that needs voluntary inspections that is an ENTIRELY different thing. You make it sound like the police were just showing up at your door asking to search your home for no reason whatsoever.

BTW smell cannot be used as reasonable suspicion when it comes to outside a residence.

In principle it absolutely sucks that we are so beaten down by this idiotic war on drugs that it's progress that we can pay to apply for license and must voluntarily let strangers come into our house and look around.

In reality it's a step. That sucks too. Man I hate the attitude towards pot in this pill popping country we live in. The state I live in, if my grow was seen, I would lose everything.

 

[NoDrama]

I've heard of people getting arrested for resisting arrest.

I have heard of people getting killed for it.

Perhaps we should always do everything the police ask us to do? After all, what do you have to hide?

The average person commits 2 felonies a day. There are so many vague laws that the police can just "find" things to arrest you on once they have permission to search.

 

[ginwilly]

Ferguson, MO police made a habit of doing exactly this. They're being held to account NOW, but only after how long and how many people abused?

I did say I took a calculated risk by cooperating first and letting them see for themselves that I'm not a danger to them or society. I'm relieved it worked out in my favor, no doubt.

I'm well aware that I'm an ambassador for everyone who wants to grow and be left alone, and I daresay I got a lot more respect for that cause by cooperating than by trying to stand my constitutional ground and telling them off.

When I lived in Ga, the cops used to do what they called jump outs. 3 or 4 squad cars would come flying up to a group of people, jump out of their cars and chase whoever ran. Someone always runs, seems like they would learn after a few.

 

[ttystikk]

If you were under suspicion because you have a LICENSED operation that needs voluntary inspections that is an ENTIRELY different thing. You make it sound like the police were just showing up at your door asking to search your home for no reason whatsoever.

BTW smell cannot be used as reasonable suspicion when it comes to outside a residence.

They showed up at my door because of smell complaints from neighbors... according to them, many complaints. That's a violation of duly enacted city ordinance- and that too is legitimate; I don't want to reek out my neighbors if they don't like it; they are perfectly within their rights to enjoy smell free air in their home.

My carbon filter is old, And my trim room window was wide open, AND my friends and I smoked a lot of weed. I fixed these issues and things should be good going forward.

We all gotta get along, right?

 

[NoDrama]

WOW. I'm really glad you're not a cop.

Every officer I've spoken to feels passionately about their DUTY to prevent crime even more than mop up after it.

Maybe I haven't spoken to any bad cops, and that's very possible.

I am sure I'd rather it be this way than the alternative.

So when the cops run a sting operation they are trying to stop a crime from being committed or are they trying to get people to commit crimes so that they can arrest them? If EVERY police officer feels it is his passion to prevent crime, why do they do these stings? Drug Stings, Prostitute stings, fraud etc etc etc

 

[ttystikk]

When I lived in Ga, the cops used to do what they called jump outs. 3 or 4 squad cars would come flying up to a group of people, jump out of their cars and chase whoever ran. Someone always runs, seems like they would learn after a few.

That's just shitty police 'work.' I'm sorry to hear they get away with it.

In Ft Collins, the police chief would get his ass fired for pulling that kind of crap. FAST. Strong community involvement with the police department has its benefits, and this is one of them.