LEC - Light-Emitting Ceramic

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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I'm only convinced by results, not bullshit theory about the perfect spectrum.

The results show that the quantity photons between 400-700nm emitted per watt dissipated is what matters the most for growing cannabis. Prepare to waste a lot of money chasing the perfect spectrum while ignoring efficiency and umol/J. History has a tendency of repeating itself when people refuse to learn it.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The whole cost argument is so blown out of proportion. Replacing a 1000W HPS lamp with DIY will only run about 1000-1500 dollars. That is a lot, and for many, HPS is a better option financially, but I've given a bill of materials for each of my designs. Please use those BOMs instead of making up numbers.

Also keep in mind that a large percentage of my bill of materials involve reusable aluminum heat sinks. Aluminum is a commodity, and machining aluminum is labor. The prices of labor and commodities generally goes up over time, unlike technology which goes down sharply in price. From a speculators point of view, I will pay less if I buy them now rather than 5 years from now.
 
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vitamin_green_inc

vitamin_green_inc

Well-Known Member
Hmm, I shall be doing several tester strains this summer. This will be vegged under mainly Cree LED bulbs and cfl bulbs, but mostly mothers that I am going to run clones from Hempy SOG from. I will be doing LEC lighting(315w Sun SystemLEC), Onyx Bloom(175-200w actual "quality" LeDs) and a Chinese panel-90w actual, probably like 75 "quality" leds at like 12 inches lol, and several cree/cfl bulbs with that China panel. I will eventually be adding more LEC and some of the newer brand LeD after this summer. I'm hoping for good results, and a quicker finish time, with the LEC!:weed:
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I think it's a little hypocrite to pretend my reference frame is limited to what people pretend I know and have done and seen in the past decades, yet refer me to gg's grows again or this subforum at RIU... Anyway, have you seen what gorilla glue looks like under HPS? See the monthly contest at the farm... or the frostiest bud thread at riu. It's genetics... It does look attractive and gg did a great job, but, some frosty well grown GG doesn't somehow blind me when making comparisons. If it worked like that we'd all be growing T5 like @RM3.

The buds/colas look great but seem rather small (calyx count) at the top which means the bottom isn't thicker either. If he would have said those were grown under 400w hps or T5 I would have believed it too. You compare to one of the best LED growers you've seen so it seems only fair that I compare to the best hps growers. Others go as far as to think they know where my knowledge and experience ends yet flat out think the reality is limited to what they have or have never seen... too stupid.

No, plants do not just care about photons only. It (an optimal light recipe based) differs a lot per species and type of plant and even amongst cannabis strains. The possibilities of LED go far beyond trying to beat HPS efficiency, which has always been inevitable. The goal of professionals is to replace HPS while maintaining the same quality and yield, and where possible improve both (the promise of led right). That requires considering many additional factors and goes a lot further than ppf and using white cobs. Stop making me promote led.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomorphogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photobiology


Weird to see a LED user argue that LED would be a better choice because a HID reflector is so expensive. The selection of reflectors I can choose from is (or was...) perhaps a little larger than yours but that comparison seems highly biased again.

I can buy almost 2x a 315w set for that $420 and while they may not live up to your standards of a high quality reflector, that's two of them, compared to the 300watt LED unit... While many LED growers will be replacing more expensive cobs and drivers with more efficient ones to beat those 2 CMH before the bulbs are up for replacement. Or obviously just get 1x cmh and have plenty left to replace bulbs for years... I don't care about the cost 'that' much, but your argument is invalid.

As gg said, they should cost about the same. Yes... but let's not do that by going for the most expensive version of the HID.
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You need to read this article http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/hubs-energy-efficiency1

See the pretty picture
 
vitamin_green_inc

vitamin_green_inc

Well-Known Member
At 16 -18 sq foot coverage, by @churchhaze's admission, we have a 2k+ light...that would cost in LEC terms, roughly 700~$...at a technology that will last at 100% efficiency for(reported of course( 7k hours +) as far as flower value, that is the best I have , personally, seen.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I think it's a little hypocrite to pretend my reference frame is limited to what people pretend I know and have done and seen in the past decades, yet refer me to gg's grows again or this subforum at RIU... Anyway, have you seen what gorilla glue looks like under HPS? See the monthly contest at the farm... or the frostiest bud thread at riu. It's genetics... It does look attractive and gg did a great job, but, some frosty well grown GG doesn't somehow blind me when making comparisons. If it worked like that we'd all be growing T5 like @RM3.

The buds/colas look great but seem rather small (calyx count) at the top which means the bottom isn't thicker either. If he would have said those were grown under 400w hps or T5 I would have believed it too. You compare to one of the best LED growers you've seen so it seems only fair that I compare to the best hps growers. Others go as far as to think they know where my knowledge and experience ends yet flat out think the reality is limited to what they have or have never seen... too stupid.

No, plants do not just care about photons only. It (an optimal light recipe based) differs a lot per species and type of plant and even amongst cannabis strains. The possibilities of LED go far beyond trying to beat HPS efficiency, which has always been inevitable. The goal of professionals is to replace HPS while maintaining the same quality and yield, and where possible improve both (the promise of led right). That requires considering many additional factors and goes a lot further than ppf and using white cobs. Stop making me promote led.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomorphogenesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photobiology


Weird to see a LED user argue that LED would be a better choice because a HID reflector is so expensive. The selection of reflectors I can choose from is (or was...) perhaps a little larger than yours but that comparison seems highly biased again.

I can buy almost 2x a 315w set for that $420 and while they may not live up to your standards of a high quality reflector, that's two of them, compared to the 300watt LED unit... While many LED growers will be replacing more expensive cobs and drivers with more efficient ones to beat those 2 CMH before the bulbs are up for replacement. Or obviously just get 1x cmh and have plenty left to replace bulbs for years... I don't care about the cost 'that' much, but your argument is invalid.

As gg said, they should cost about the same. Yes... but let's not do that by going for the most expensive version of the HID.
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You contradict the very link to 'intellectual honesty' in your sig. You talk about us 'led people' 'downplay' hid. Then turn around and downplay every perk to led. For why? Idk you keep saying you have no dog in the show. So its a mystery to all of us. You're a hypocrite at best, troll at worst.

Enjoy fucking with your cheap shit ebay lights every year. I never have to touch my lights aside from dusting with a can of air... decades of trouble free production ahead.
 
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RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
I'm only convinced by results, not bullshit theory about the perfect spectrum.

The results show that the quantity photons between 400-700nm emitted per watt dissipated is what matters the most for growing cannabis. Prepare to waste a lot of money chasing the perfect spectrum while ignoring efficiency and umol/J. History has a tendency of repeating itself when people refuse to learn it.
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Results from a dialed T5 spectrum, and nope it's not gorilla glue tis my new strain Borealiz

P.S. nothing wrong with usin LED's borpb3.jpg
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
Results from a dialed T5 spectrum, and nope it's not gorilla glue tis my new strain Thunder99

P.S. nothing wrong with usin LED's View attachment 3399474
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How many watts total is your t5ho setup and do you notice it takes longer for flowering to finish than with HPS? That's what I noticed when I used 500W of 4ft T8 with actinic included (i think in 2004). Would your results not be better if you were using HPS instead? In retrospect, 500W of those tubes were under-performing a 400W HPS greatly, both in yield and finishing time. (there may even still be pictures on weedfarmer.com)

HPS is usually what I recommend to people, especially noobs and quickly expanding warehouse grows. I boast DIY led a lot, but usually recommend people get HPS. It's other members here who insist that I somehow hate HPS. HPS is almost always what I suggest.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
How many watts total is your t5ho setup and do you notice it takes longer for flowering to finish than with HPS? That's what I noticed when I used 500W of 4ft T8 with actinic included (i think in 2004). Would your results not be better if you were using HPS instead? In retrospect, 500W of those tubes were under-performing a 400W greatly, both in yield and finishing time.

HPS is usually what I recommend to people, especially noobs and quickly expanding warehouse grows. I boast DIY led a lot, but usually recommend people get HPS. It's other members here who insist that I somehow hate HPS.
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3 fixtures rated at 336 watts each but 972 actual watts (18 bulbs X 54 watts)

and no they actually finish bout a week faster since I started usin the Gas Lantern Routine for veg, I also run a 10.5/13.5 flower schedule

My last harvest, I pulled 21 oz's from 12, 2 to 3 foot tall plants
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Doesn't 10.5/13.5 mean significantly less sugars produced per day? A lot of us are actually running 13/11 using 730nm pulses at lights out. Having to run at 10.5/13.5 to get flowering times shorter is a huge disadvantage if you ask me, not to mention you get less value out of each lamp. The spectrum of HPS gives you short flowering times even with 12/12 light cycles.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Doesn't 10.5/13.5 mean significantly less sugars produced per day? A lot of us are actually running 13/11 using 730nm pulses at lights out. Having to run at 10.5/13.5 to get flowering times shorter is a huge disadvantage if you ask me, not to mention you get less value out of each lamp. The spectrum of HPS gives you short flowering times even with 12/12 light cycles.
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not in my experience, actually what I have seen is when growing hybrids the lower light times bring out the Sativa genetics while a 13/11 will bring out the Indica genetics
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
I got the info from a DJ Short article and started doin it, I have tried many various light timings over the last 2 years and it really does work
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So shorter days and longer nights make for more indica characteristics- or am I backwards?
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
What kind of GPW does that grow pull? I don't like the standard for comparison, but it's the only one I got in terms of accessible, available numbers.
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my last weighed harvest was .6 gpw but I wasn't trying for yield (never do) I breed :)
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
That pic of the Borealiz was a closeup of the top, here is the whole top, the side of the main cola and a popcorn, week 7 of flower (click on em :) ) ,,,,
.T_SAM_0057.JPG T_SAM_0059.JPG T_SAM_0062.JPG
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Well, @RM3, you also boast that the extra blue from actinic boosts the quality of your weed, which I actually noticed too, but when LED growers make claims such as "higher quality" it usually gets shot down as unproven. Why is it that DIY vero and cxa/cxb growers are regularly pulling in over 1g/W and claiming better quality than HPS, but LED growers are forbidden from using the quality argument? I personally have no idea if using white leds has improved quality. Of course I'd like to think so, but nay sayers say no way. What I do know is I've been getting HPS like results with less watts in.
 
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