Refining Opium??

[Dr.Nick]

Just do it like the growers do, disolve the raw opium in water and boil. Filter out plant material and reduce to a (really) sticky syrup. Spread on a non absorbant surface and let dry. Scrape and roll into balls and age. Classic opium. It's that simple. Nothing wrong with the raw form though.

 

[Big P]

I heard boiling destroys the morphine in the opium

 

[Dr.Nick]

According to the sources I've read morphine is heat stable below its combustion point, and has been historically (and currently) processed in this manner. Cooked opium may be smoked as is or refined to morphine or heroin. Lower quality heroin producers may forgo this process yielding the brown/black tar types. Cooking and filtering it may reduce the mass by up to 25%. The opium that the East India company flooded China with was of the "cooked" variety.

*As a side note, there is nothing wrong with smoking raw opium. I actually prefer it raw. However, if you're dealing with large quantities or have problems dosing, I'd combine and homogenize it through cooking or powdering to ensure consistency from one smoke to the next.

 

[Don Gin and Ton]

Dr in the house! you know your onions man. so its literally as easy as putting it raw scraped off the pod in some simmering water? any idea how long for? also how long does it need to be aged for optimum use? is there some reference i can read up on?

cheers man

 

[Big P]

here some info about how morphine degrades at boiling temps, wouldnt want you guys to be wasting morphine now



You have the correct info. In alkaline medium with exposure to the oxygen in the air, morphine will degrade into pseudo-morphine at about 90C. (this roughly corresponds to your 200F).
The only way around this is to use an inert atmosphere(i.e. Nitrogen), which is beyond the scope of the kitchen chemist.
In acidic media you have a similiar problem, while it is not as severe, this still will become a problem. Morphine is marked by the ease with which it is oxidized, and many of the qualitative tests for morphine depend on this very property.
Anyone who has boiled their pods knows this from experience. A relatively weak tea will be produced. Jim Hogshire knew this well, and as I remember discusses this in his "Opium for the Masses", advising steeping the ground in boiling water rather than boiling. (Yes folks, Jim knew his stuff, even though it was very basic information, it was accurate )
Obviously, polar organic solvents alone will not solve this problem.

Remember people, it is the little things that matter. Details are everything, every time you accept a process that results in a loss of product, then another, and another, you find that your yield has gone to hell, whilst you scratch your head and wonder what happenned, wit hno nods to reward your efforts.
I don't know exactly what the guy at Pharmwatch is advocating, as your description is rather vague. Morphine HCl is not what is extracted from pod grounds. Ther you are getting freebase and the meconate compounds.
Caveat Emptur. The only thing boiling pods for hours will do is to waste good M, turning much of it into the rather useless pseudo-morphine and p.m. meconates.

For more info see ;
Chemistry of the Opium Alkaloids 1913, Part II, The phenanthrene alkaloids. See also Merck's Patent where he advocates keeping the temperature down during the exraction process.

 

[Dr.Nick]

First, this wasn't intended as a tech. Rather a simple illustration of of traditional opium processing, as this is practical only when dealing with large quantities of opium. Mostly it was to get people thinking in the right direction so that they may formulate their own processing procedures. Second, morphine HCl is stable up to 121 deg (c) in an inert atmosphere for 180 minutes with an adjusted pH of 2.3. This translates to 249 deg (f). If this method were to be used, conversion to a hydrochloride salt is very simple. Also, with the use of an oxygen scavenger in solution, I believe that this process could be performed successfully in one's home kitchen, even without an inert atmosphere. Would it yield USP grade opium extract? Probably not, but it would certainly be usable and free from major impurities. In the study where these figures were sourced, one batch was tested with a solution of H2O2 added to facilitate breakdown. Even in this instance, losses did not exceed 20% of the original morphine content. I'm not sure what you consider acceptable, but 80% is at the very least respectable. I have not tried this, but I would expect, given these figures, that the aforementioned process is in fact a viable one. Even, if you are using freebase materials without any chemical modification.

Now, if dealing with small quantities of opium (under say, 500g), all this would seem unnecessary as high proof ethanol or isopropanol would facilitate filtration with much less hassle, less loss, and faster drying times. Also, whenever I post anything regarding opium, unless I stated otherwise, I am referring to latex only, not straw. If you must use dried pods or other byproducts of poppy production, there are additional porcedures to be followed.

 

[Big P]

true this my only expiriance is very limited useing only dried pods,


i did an extration with everclear once for ease of evaporation. i was left with a lot of impurities that the alc stripped off the dried pods that water would not have so i took the resulting sludge and added a little bit of water mixed wll then strained then evaporated the rest of the water yielding a smokable cooked flake opium,

im gonna try this again with a large batch of pods so my friend with pancreas probalem can enjoy the opium too as he cant drink the tea with harming his already damaged pancreus due to very careless use of alcahol during his past.

 

[Dr.Nick]

Yeah, organic solvents do have a tendency to pull a lot of crap in adition to whatever you're trying to get. I guess if you have a lot of material to work with you could do a warm water extract, defat, and then an acid-base to precipitate the goodies. If I remember correctly, you use Ca(OH)2 (aq.) to disolve the morphine, decant to separate the liquor, progressively filter, then precipitate with HCl or H2SO4. Don't quote me on that... I'm going off of memory here.

*The aging is only used for opium processed with chems that you wouldn't want to inhale or to bring the moisture content down to levels ideal for long-term storage. It doesn't need aging for the sake of aging (like bourbon), lots of people like to wipe poppy milk on their rolling papers and use it that way. The whole refining process is either for marketing or to prepare it for further chemical processing (e.g. opium --> morphine --> heroin). So if what you want is opium, all refining and processing is pretty unnescessary.

 

[Big P]

STocks online of dried poppy pods are low right now unit the harvest end of this month i had poppies ordered from a new place just drank the tea even though i could taste mold, needless to say im in a very good mood with a very bad stomach ache

Yuck

 

[Big P]

Damn that sounds complicated, so the acid is really imortant? People keep telling me that but i used to use lemon juice in my tea but i cant tell the diff with or without so i stopped using it

 

[Dr.Nick]

For making poppy tea, no, but it does help hide the god-awful taste. It sounds more complicated than it is, but doing extractions right takes a lot of work and can offer relatively little reward. I'll see if I can find a good tech somewhere and post it, because I just read two guides with contradictory info. One starts with sulfuric acid and the other with calcium hydroxide. I'm gonna have to look more into this one. It could be they both work, but I suspect that the calcium hydroxide extraction yields a more pure compound.

 

[Big P]

Very interesting

May i ask what degrees you have or shall i just assume you are an evil genius

 

[Dr.Nick]

I'm actually still working on my undergrad, but I should be done in two or three semesters (depending on schedule/class availability and I still have to find time to squeeze in the MCAT) with a triple major in chemistry, biology, and psychology; but, I prefer evil genius...

 

[Don Gin and Ton]

woah check out the big brain on DR Evil Nick

good work man!

 

[Alkaloid Ninja]

Don't bleed your pods. Dry them and wash out all the fat, wax, poppy oil, chlorophyll and other solvent soluble gunk.
Crush them, soak in a solvent. MEK works the best. Rubbing alcohol will do. Stain and repeat until solvent is completely clear.
Through out solvent and steep pod material in a slightly acidic bath.
Heat is optional at this point.
*with heat you only need to steep for an hour
*without heat you'll need to steep it for 4 hours
Stain out pod material and throw it away.
Take acidic water and alkaloids and evaporate out all the water.
What you're left with is Poppy Straw concentrate. It's pure alkaloids. It's 50% morphine. It's very strong!
You can smoke, snort, shoot or eat it like a pain pill. 1 gram of this will make 20 perc 15 strength doses so be EXTREMELY CAREFUL.
It takes opium to a whole new level.
I'm not even fucking around. This is how pharmaceutical companies extract the alkaloids out of plants. They don't bleed the pods. It's a waste of time, money, man power and energy.
You can use all the above ground parts of the plant. The pods themselves will give you a much stronger concentrate. Using the whole plant will give you 65% more concentrate but will weaken it.
The pods have more morphine and codine in them to where the leaves have higher concentrations of papavine and thebaine. All are still analgesic but morphine is stronger. I grind up the whole plant because I like getting a good balance of all the alkaloids. It also hits all the different kinds of pain in one shot.

 

[rob333]

Don't bleed your pods. Dry them and wash out all the fat, wax, poppy oil, chlorophyll and other solvent soluble gunk.
Crush them, soak in a solvent. MEK works the best. Rubbing alcohol will do. Stain and repeat until solvent is completely clear.
Through out solvent and steep pod material in a slightly acidic bath.
Heat is optional at this point.
*with heat you only need to steep for an hour
*without heat you'll need to steep it for 4 hours
Stain out pod material and throw it away.
Take acidic water and alkaloids and evaporate out all the water.
What you're left with is Poppy Straw concentrate. It's pure alkaloids. It's 50% morphine. It's very strong!
You can smoke, snort, shoot or eat it like a pain pill. 1 gram of this will make 20 perc 15 strength doses so be EXTREMELY CAREFUL.
It takes opium to a whole new level.
I'm not even fucking around. This is how pharmaceutical companies extract the alkaloids out of plants. They don't bleed the pods. It's a waste of time, money, man power and energy.
You can use all the above ground parts of the plant. The pods themselves will give you a much stronger concentrate. Using the whole plant will give you 65% more concentrate but will weaken it.
The pods have more morphine and codine in them to where the leaves have higher concentrations of papavine and thebaine. All are still analgesic but morphine is stronger. I grind up the whole plant because I like getting a good balance of all the alkaloids. It also hits all the different kinds of pain in one shot.

been growing poppies for years vinigar works good

 

[Alkaloid Ninja]

I did a LOT of research and in multiple articals it says to NOT use vinegar. Using vinegar can turn it into poison. Also, if your making tea, vinegar tastes TERRIBLE. After you remove all the unwanted crap, a little bit of lemon or lime juice goes a long way. Also the concentrate has a lime or lemon taste. You also get that yummy opium taste as well. I'd suggest using a 10 to one ratio all the way up to a 20 to one ratio. The alkaloids dissolve very well when the PH gets down to 4 or less. It works way faster. Now if you're not using heat to extract the alkaloids then You're definetly going to want to get that ph as low as possible without overdoing it with lemon juice. I've used to much and it won't turn into a light tan powder. Also you can just use 10 to one ratio of MEK or pour some rubbing alcohol into the mix. With rubbing alcohol I'd say use 50% and you will still get the alkaloids out quickly and it will evaporate out all the moisture much faster. I like using the lime juice because the lime flavor is gangster when ya smoke it. The 50% alcohol technique tastes like the cleanest opium that you've ever smoked. Hell I like snorting it so using 50% rubbing alcohol is way better on the nose but doesn't smell as good. Mostly I eat or smoke the stuff but snorting it is quite the rush.

 

[rob333]

I did a LOT of research and in multiple articals it says to NOT use vinegar. Using vinegar can turn it into poison. Also, if your making tea, vinegar tastes TERRIBLE. After you remove all the unwanted crap, a little bit of lemon or lime juice goes a long way. Also the concentrate has a lime or lemon taste. You also get that yummy opium taste as well. I'd suggest using a 10 to one ratio all the way up to a 20 to one ratio. The alkaloids dissolve very well when the PH gets down to 4 or less. It works way faster. Now if you're not using heat to extract the alkaloids then You're definetly going to want to get that ph as low as possible without overdoing it with lemon juice. I've used to much and it won't turn into a light tan powder. Also you can just use 10 to one ratio of MEK or pour some rubbing alcohol into the mix. With rubbing alcohol I'd say use 50% and you will still get the alkaloids out quickly and it will evaporate out all the moisture much faster. I like using the lime juice because the lime flavor is gangster when ya smoke it. The 50% alcohol technique tastes like the cleanest opium that you've ever smoked. Hell I like snorting it so using 50% rubbing alcohol is way better on the nose but doesn't smell as good. Mostly I eat or smoke the stuff but snorting it is quite the rush.

we snap the heads off poppies wipe the sap on gauz we use any were between 20 - 30 poppie heads lets it dry for about an hour or micro wave for 20 secs at a time till its hard to touch or a brown hard colour drop the gauz into a pot with about half a cup of vin then we simmer the solution for about and hour never to go over 80c then we dilute with distilled water and shoot it up i have been doing this for almost 7 years now also i use a shit tone of fent so i no my shit i also lance the poppies and use the latex in the same way for larger hits that last me when made up i can use every day for about 6 months straight wile i grow more

 

[rob333]

I did a LOT of research and in multiple articals it says to NOT use vinegar. Using vinegar can turn it into poison. Also, if your making tea, vinegar tastes TERRIBLE. After you remove all the unwanted crap, a little bit of lemon or lime juice goes a long way. Also the concentrate has a lime or lemon taste. You also get that yummy opium taste as well. I'd suggest using a 10 to one ratio all the way up to a 20 to one ratio. The alkaloids dissolve very well when the PH gets down to 4 or less. It works way faster. Now if you're not using heat to extract the alkaloids then You're definetly going to want to get that ph as low as possible without overdoing it with lemon juice. I've used to much and it won't turn into a light tan powder. Also you can just use 10 to one ratio of MEK or pour some rubbing alcohol into the mix. With rubbing alcohol I'd say use 50% and you will still get the alkaloids out quickly and it will evaporate out all the moisture much faster. I like using the lime juice because the lime flavor is gangster when ya smoke it. The 50% alcohol technique tastes like the cleanest opium that you've ever smoked. Hell I like snorting it so using 50% rubbing alcohol is way better on the nose but doesn't smell as good. Mostly I eat or smoke the stuff but snorting it is quite the rush.

dont no were u research came from but take it from som1 that does it on a daily bases

 

[rob333]

I did a LOT of research and in multiple articals it says to NOT use vinegar. Using vinegar can turn it into poison. Also, if your making tea, vinegar tastes TERRIBLE. After you remove all the unwanted crap, a little bit of lemon or lime juice goes a long way. Also the concentrate has a lime or lemon taste. You also get that yummy opium taste as well. I'd suggest using a 10 to one ratio all the way up to a 20 to one ratio. The alkaloids dissolve very well when the PH gets down to 4 or less. It works way faster. Now if you're not using heat to extract the alkaloids then You're definetly going to want to get that ph as low as possible without overdoing it with lemon juice. I've used to much and it won't turn into a light tan powder. Also you can just use 10 to one ratio of MEK or pour some rubbing alcohol into the mix. With rubbing alcohol I'd say use 50% and you will still get the alkaloids out quickly and it will evaporate out all the moisture much faster. I like using the lime juice because the lime flavor is gangster when ya smoke it. The 50% alcohol technique tastes like the cleanest opium that you've ever smoked. Hell I like snorting it so using 50% rubbing alcohol is way better on the nose but doesn't smell as good. Mostly I eat or smoke the stuff but snorting it is quite the rush.

i have also done this with poppie seeds not as strong but for somthing to get u thru works a hell lot better then pulling the codein from about 60 nuro + tabs