CXB3590 1500W

[SupraSPL]

Hey!
Sorry for the questions in your thread supra!
I have a question for you: what kind of light you have before leds? And how many gpw you use to have before switch to leds?I believe it is a good question to ask to led/cob users, the difference between now and before. Have a great day ★

..first grows were micro size, using fluoro and a pair of 70W HPS. Then with KNNAs help, switched to DIY LED 140W for starters. It was 26% efficient and that was early 2010.

Best results were .9gpw but I was watering in ferts that I thought were organic but was actually force feeding petrochem (Age Old Organics). Ironically I switched to Epsoma granular ferts which says organic across the bag, which are non-petrochemical but not from organic certified sources. In other words it could be chicken litter and feather meal from industrial farms which may have more harmful contaminants than petro chem ferts so I got the worst of both worlds. Just trying to grow the cleanest natural product so now I make my own worm castings and compost from organic certified scraps and material from the forest. Supplementing with chicken litter from certified organic layer hens.

Eventually I got an opportunity to scale up so I went with 600HPS X 4. Best results were .57gpw but average was about .4gpw (organic soil). The quality of my favorite cuttings was noticeably decreased under HPS. Started adding some LEDs back in late 2013 (XTEs and XPEs) and gpw numbers increased to .6. Then COBs came out in 2013/2014 and I started adding them in (CXA3070 3000K Z2s @ 700mA) Once I started mixing in COBs with HPS the gpw numbers jumped up immediately to .8 or .9 and once all the HPS were phased out the numbers have never been back below 1 gpw. Now I am phasing out the reds deep reds and blues. They are still working great but the efficiency is falling far behind the COBs.

 

[SupraSPL]

So is that 1500W total for the whole op, or is there one part that uses that much?

The 2 flower tents are setup on 12/12 flip flop to reduce heat
-730-750W of COB dissipation per flower 7'X6'X7' tent
-drivers consume about 50W per flower tent
-circulation fan/ceiling fan 60W per flower tent
-veg tent for the system is 80-125W
-ventilation for the system is a pair of carbon filters, 70-100W depending on the season

When outside air is shut off due to heat and/or humidity
-dehumidifier 500W (relatively inefficient 1.2L/kWh)
-AC is ~2000W central air, used during heat waves in July/August but also provides efficient dehumidification ~2L/kWh

Overall system uses about 800 kWh/mnth or ~$120

 

[SupraSPL]

These ladies were finished under higher color temps. Still testing to see if I can find any difference but so far undecided (I never did a fair side by side test). I already committed to 3500K but might as well keep experimenting

Cali Connection - 22 (Jack Herer)
CXB3590 3500K CD bin @ 23W


Cannaventure - Garlic Breath
CXB3590 4000K CD bin @ 23W

 

[littlejacob]

Bonjour
I like...no,I love what you just told me about the yield.I'm always between 400 and 480 gr with my 600hps, lumatek ballast,and a closed reflector. So with 400w of 3590(8 on 2 hlg-185-1400) I aim for 500 gr(from seed,with a selection 600gr.)we will see that in November,I will pop some beans half august,some fem to save time,than some regular while the fem flowers in my boxes.
And,do you B.A.C nutrient? Is it really organic?
Have a great day

 

[ttystikk]

The 2 flower tents are setup on 12/12 flip flop to reduce heat
-730-750W of COB dissipation per flower 7'X6'X7' tent
-drivers consume about 50W per flower tent
-circulation fan/ceiling fan 60W per flower tent
-veg tent for the system is 80-125W
-ventilation for the system is a pair of carbon filters, 70-100W depending on the season

When outside air is shut off due to heat and/or humidity
-dehumidifier 500W (relatively inefficient 1.2L/kWh)
-AC is ~2000W central air, used during heat waves in July/August but also provides efficient dehumidification ~2L/kWh

Overall system uses about 800 kWh/mnth or ~$120

I'm planning a very high intensity array using most of the same parts you are, just more of them.

If a given growing spot is 6'x4'=24 ft², how would you go about lighting it with similar efficiency to what you've already done? I was thinking of 4 COBs on a panel, and six panels to light the spot. My working estimate was 600W for the whole 24 ft² area. Am I off base anywhere in here so far?

 

[SupraSPL]

@littlejacob You do very well with your HPS, what variety beans do you run?

As far as the BAC goes, their site says "BAC Organic Growth Nutrition comprises of ingredients approved by the Soil Association." The Soil Association site says it has to be more than 95% organic in order to use the word organic. However, I woiuld have to see the ingredients listed and understand the product better before I would recommend it.

My controversial opinion, we should pot up into a strong organic EWC/compost based soil mix and use quality compost tea from time to time. If the plant is still hungry then we can try to salvage the situation with liquid nutes. Some liquid nute approaches might be to water in organic certified fish hydrolysate or fish emulsion. Another option, if you have very high quality concentrated earth worm castings you can soak them and water that in to get a nitrogen fix. I have tried soaking chicken litter for a bit and watering that in as well. Some growers make nutrient teas with FPEs etc. But when it comes down to it, my goal is to create soils that have sufficient nutrients already cooked in and then water-only during flower.

 

[SupraSPL]

I'm planning a very high intensity array using most of the same parts you are, just more of them.

If a given growing spot is 6'x4'=24 ft², how would you go about lighting it with similar efficiency to what you've already done? I was thinking of 4 COBs on a panel, and six panels to light the spot. My working estimate was 600W for the whole 24 ft² area. Am I off base anywhere in here so far?

If you are building a very large system and you are not directly space or heat limited, I would recommend running them at 50W ea or higher. But if you have very expensive electricity or growing in a hot climate, paying for the extra efficiency could be worth it if it can increase your yield.

In my 7'6' tents I only have about 5X5 of canopy because of walkways. Will your 6X4 be all canopy or does it have access on both sides?

 

[ttystikk]

If you are building a very large system and you are not directly space or heat limited, I would recommend running them at 50W ea or higher. But if you have very expensive electricity or growing in a hot climate, paying for the extra efficiency could be worth it if it can increase your yield.

In my 7'6' tents I only have about 5X5 of canopy because of walkways. Will your 6X4 be all canopy or does it have access on both sides?

That's all canopy. It's fully accessible.

I guess I'm curious about the initial cost of say 45% vs. 50 vs. 60 plus. The efficiency gains always pay for themselves eventually...

 

[testiclees]

@littlejacob You do very well with your HPS, what variety beans do you run?

As far as the BAC goes, their site says "BAC Organic Growth Nutrition comprises of ingredients approved by the Soil Association." The Soil Association site says it has to be more than 95% organic in order to use the word organic. However, I woiuld have to see the ingredients listed and understand the product better before I would recommend it.

My controversial opinion, we should pot up into a strong organic EWC/compost based soil mix and use quality compost tea from time to time. If the plant is still hungry then we can try to salvage the situation with liquid nutes. Some liquid nute approaches might be to water in organic certified fish hydrolysate or fish emulsion. Another option, if you have very high quality concentrated earth worm castings you can soak them and water that in to get a nitrogen fix. I have tried soaking chicken litter for a bit and watering that in as well. Some growers make nutrient teas with FPEs etc. But when it comes down to it, my goal is to create soils that have sufficient nutrients already cooked in and then water-only during flower.

Hey S,

Have you tested your mix for nutrient balance? I recently sent in a sample to IAG..My results shocked me. K and P at 4-5x desired levels, super low on manganese and low on magnesium.

Everyone bets the farm on good old compost but it is well known that repeated compost additions often push K out of bounds. Those high K soils deliver yields but sacrifice quality. (at least that is the high brix theory).

I had been feeding my worms coconuts. I stopped because i believe it was blowing up my K content.

Sorry if i already mentioned this but results from doc buds high brix kit are pretty amazing. Its not 100% organic but pretty close and the flowers can be remarkable.

 

[littlejacob]

Bonjour
I tryed almost all Dinafem beans.I have a cheese "black" pheno who is very, very productive, 2 critical jack , a very good and productive cheese from Greenhouse (there is only 3 or 4 good strain in GHS, in my opinion. ..) 1 kingkong (dr underground) IceXKush (advanced seed)
I have 9 plants in 11L (about 3 gls) in scrog (4 week vegging and generally 10 week flowering)
But I have a new box split in two part so i am going to (re) use regular, and give a try to U.S breeders.
Have a great day ★

 

[littlejacob]

The Dnf cheese with B.A.C nutes and Funky Fungy gave me 67gr and the other 58gr
It is the third Criticaljack who only produce 24gr.
Total for 9 plants 468gr (+ 10 of small buds)
My best score so far with the 600w (but never under 420gr when i do not change anything)
It is 4 am i have to go to bed
Night'

 

[SupraSPL]

That's all canopy. It's fully accessible.
I guess I'm curious about the initial cost of say 45% vs. 50 vs. 60 plus. The efficiency gains always pay for themselves eventually...

Here are some units you could scale up to fit your space. To some extent, you can adjust the coverage by adjusting the distance to canopy.

@45.7%
(2) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 2.5A (91.65W ea) $95
(2) HLN-80H-36A $90
183 dissipation W -> 99.37W heat
(2) Arctic 64 Plus CPU coolers $26
(2) lenses $8
83.63 PAR W covering 5 ft² = 749 PPFD
$219 = 2.62/PAR W

@49.7%
(2) CXB3590 3500K CD 72V @ 1.05A (75.5W ea) $95
(1) HLG-185H-C1400 (running at ~1050mA) $65
151 dissipation W -> 76W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 9120cm² -> (2) 10"X10" heatsink $75
or
active cooled heatsink 3040 cm² min -> 3.5" X 30" heatsink (for spread) $40 + 80mm fan+psu $10
or
(2) Arctic 64 Plus CPU coolers $26
(2) lenses $8
75 PAR W covering 4ft² = 840 PPFD
75 PAR W covering 5ft² = 672 PPFD
$243 = $3.24/PAR W passive cooled
$218 = $2.91/PAR W active cooled on bar heatsink
$194 = $2.59/PAR W active cooled on CPU coolers (uniform spread, best value?)

@ 56.3%
(4) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 1.4A (49W ea) $190
(1) HLG-185H-C1400 $65
196 dissipation W -> 85.7W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 10284cm² -> 5.88" X 38" heatsink $72 (could split in 2 to improve uniformity/spread)
or
active cooled heatsink 3428cm² min -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 +80mm fan +psu $10
(4) lenses $16
110.3 PAR W covering 6ft² = 824 PPFD
$311 = $3.07/PAR W passive cooled (great value point IMO, very efficient use of driver)
$326 = 2.96/PAR W active cooled

@61.2%
(5) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 1.05A (35.5W ea) $237.50
(1) HLG-185H-C1050 $65
177.5 dissipation W -> 68.9W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 8268cm² -> 4.9"X36" $70
or
active cooled heatsink 2756cm² -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 + 80mm fan + psu $10
(5) lenses $20
108.63 PAR W covering 6ft² =
$392.50 = $3.61/PAR W passive cooled
$377.50 = $3.48/PAR W active cooled

@64%
(8 ) CXB3590 3500K CD @ 700mA (23W ea) $380
(1) HLG-185H-C700 $65
184 dissipation W ->66W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 7920cm² -> 4.23"X44" $68 (could split these into 2 or 4 units)
or
active cooled heatsink 2640cm² -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 + 80mm fan + psu $10
active cooled heatsink 2640cm² -> 1.8"X44" heatsink $34 + 80mm fan + psu $10
(8 ) lenses $32
117.8 PAR W covering 6ft² = 879 PPFD
117.8 PAR w covering 7ft² = 754 PPFD
$545 = $4.63/PAR W passive cooled (great option if your area is high electrical cost, Hawaii, NYC, SoCal etc or if your grow is already heat limited and you want to increase yield without running more AC, ducting and fans)
$532 = $4.52/PAR W active cooled 3.5"
$521 = $4.43/PAR W active cooled 1.8"


So in summary, the higher the efficiency goes, the more appealing passive cooling is. Less wires, less moving parts, less points of failure for about the same cost.

 

[SupraSPL]

Have you tested your mix for nutrient balance? I recently sent in a sample to IAG..My results shocked me. K and P at 4-5x desired levels, super low on manganese and low on magnesium.

I really should get it tested. I have been recycling it for many years by adding homemade EWC, compost and amendments. The worms are fed a wide variety clean organic only, canna leaves/stems/roots, forest detritus random bark/wood, maple/oak leaves, bananas, peppers, beans, carrots, kiwis, aloe, egg shells, insect frass, sand, chicken litter, local insectivorous bat guano, indonesian bat guano, kelp, crab shell meal, azomite, coco coir, organic chicken bones, greensand and many more. Trying to change it up as much as possible. I water in organic fish hydrolysate which is highest in P and also organic blackstrap molasses which is huge in K.

Very experimental and a lot of intuitive guessing, not very scientific LOL

 

[ttystikk]

Here are some units you could scale up to fit your space. To some extent, you can adjust the coverage by adjusting the distance to canopy.

@43.3%
(4)Vero 29 3500K @ 1.4A (51W ea) $112
(1) HLG-185H-C1400 $65
202 dissipation W -> 114.5W heat ->
active cooled heatsink 4590 cm² -> 3.5"X36" $45 + 80mm fan+psu $10
(4) lenses $16
87.4 PAR W covering about 5ft² = 783 PPFD
$248 = $2.84/PAR W

@45.7%
(2) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 2.5A (91.65W ea) $95
(2) HLN-80H-36A $90
183 dissipation W -> 99.37W heat
(2) Arctic 64 Plus CPU coolers $26
(2) lenses $8
83.63 PAR W covering 5 ft² = 749 PPFD
$219 = 2.62/PAR W

@49.7%
(2) CXB3590 3500K CD 72V @ 1.05A (75.5W ea) $95
(1) HLG-185H-C1400 (running at ~1050mA) $65
151 dissipation W -> 76W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 9120cm² -> (2) 10"X10" heatsink $75
or
active cooled heatsink 3040 cm² min -> 3.5" X 30" heatsink (for spread) $40 + 80mm fan+psu $10
or
(2) Arctic 64 Plus CPU coolers $26
(2) lenses $8
75 PAR W covering 4ft² = 840 PPFD
75 PAR W covering 5ft² = 672 PPFD
$243 = $3.24/PAR W passive cooled
$218 = $2.91/PAR W active cooled on bar heatsink
$194 = $2.59/PAR W active cooled on CPU coolers (uniform spread, best value?)

@ 56.3%
(4) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 1.4A (49W ea) $190
(1) HLG-185H-C1400 $65
196 dissipation W -> 85.7W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 10284cm² -> 5.88" X 38" heatsink $72 (could split in 2 to improve uniformity/spread)
or
active cooled heatsink 3428cm² min -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 +80mm fan +psu $10
(4) lenses $16
110.3 PAR W covering 6ft² = 824 PPFD
$311 = $3.07/PAR W passive cooled (great value point IMO, very efficient use of driver)
$326 = 2.96/PAR W active cooled

@61.2%
(5) CXB3590 3500K CD 36V @ 1.05A (35.5W ea) $237.50
(1) HLG-185H-C1050 $65
177.5 dissipation W -> 68.9W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 8268cm² -> 4.9"X36" $70
or
active cooled heatsink 2756cm² -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 + 80mm fan + psu $10
(5) lenses $20
108.63 PAR W covering 6ft² =
$392.50 = $3.61/PAR W passive cooled
$377.50 = $3.48/PAR W active cooled

@64%
(8 ) CXB3590 3500K CD @ 700mA (23W ea) $380
(1) HLG-185H-C700 $65
184 dissipation W ->66W heat ->
passive cooled heatsink 7920cm² -> 4.23"X44" $68 (could split these into 2 or 4 units)
or
active cooled heatsink 2640cm² -> 3.5"X36" heatsink (for spread) $45 + 80mm fan + psu $10
active cooled heatsink 2640cm² -> 1.8"X44" heatsink $34 + 80mm fan + psu $10
(8 ) lenses $32
117.8 PAR W covering 6ft² = 879 PPFD
117.8 PAR w covering 7ft² = 754 PPFD
$545 = $4.63/PAR W passive cooled (great option if your area is high electrical cost, Hawaii, NYC, SoCal etc or if your grow is already heat limited and you want to increase yield without running more AC, ducting and fans)
$532 = $4.52/PAR W active cooled 3.5"
$521 = $4.43/PAR W active cooled 1.8"


So in summary, the higher the efficiency goes, the more appealing passive cooling is. Less wires, less moving parts, less points of failure for about the same cost.

Wow, thank you! I'm really still in the learning the parts and digesting how they go together phase. I'm still trying to understand what I'm reading in the post above; would I need multiples of the above combinations to cover the whole trellis? How many?

Also, I'm planning a novel cooling scheme, so warm running COBs isn't a problem. Yet I noticed a trend in your post above; the more efficient the configuration, the less it seems to need active cooling!

 

[SupraSPL]

Right so those examples are sized based on how the COBs would fit with each driver. So you could select any one of those examples and scale it up by doubling, tripling etc, until you reach your desired PPFD. I run at 750-900 PPFD lately and have been very happy with that. So I would recommend something in the 600-1000 average PPFD range. The lower the PPFD the more efficient photosynthesis is but the less efficient use of space, so it is a trade off based on your preference.

For example, if you selected the 56% efficient option and you wanted to cover a 4'X6 canopy, you could install 4 of those units and you would get 824 PPFD average. It would dissipate 784W and cost $1244 in parts (plus a lot of misc costs like thermal paste, wiring, connectors etc)

 

[testiclees]

I really should get it tested. I have been recycling it for many years by adding homemade EWC, compost and amendments. The worms are fed a wide variety clean organic only, canna leaves/stems/roots, forest detritus random bark/wood, maple/oak leaves, bananas, peppers, beans, carrots, kiwis, aloe, egg shells, insect frass, sand, chicken litter, local insectivorous bat guano, indonesian bat guano, kelp, crab shell meal, azomite, coco coir, organic chicken bones, greensand and many more. Trying to change it up as much as possible. I water in organic fish hydrolysate which is highest in P and also organic blackstrap molasses which is huge in K.

Very experimental and a lot of intuitive guessing, not very scientific LOL

I found there is as much to learn about lighting as tbere is about container soil optimization.
Its been amazingly rewarding learning the basic diy stuff. Thanks again ...it all began with that coincidental recommendation at TLG.

 

[bicit]

I really should get it tested. I have been recycling it for many years by adding homemade EWC, compost and amendments. The worms are fed a wide variety clean organic only, canna leaves/stems/roots, forest detritus random bark/wood, maple/oak leaves, bananas, peppers, beans, carrots, kiwis, aloe, egg shells, insect frass, sand, chicken litter, local insectivorous bat guano, indonesian bat guano, kelp, crab shell meal, azomite, coco coir, organic chicken bones, greensand and many more. Trying to change it up as much as possible. I water in organic fish hydrolysate which is highest in P and also organic blackstrap molasses which is huge in K.

Very experimental and a lot of intuitive guessing, not very scientific LOL

You feed all that to your worms 0_o. I just lost a huge batch of worms from over feeding....

 

[salmonetin]

...i saw add red worms on the earth container to help fight with problems on roots caused for other larvae insect with good results... the worms eat the dead roots too... for mother plants... principally...



Saludos

 

[vintagedvd]

Hello Supra,
How close do you keep your leds from the canopy?

I also want to know that please

 

[ttystikk]

...i saw add red worms on the earth container to help fight with problems on roots caused for other larvae insect with good results... the worms eat the dead roots too... for mother plants... principally...



Saludos

That's fascinating stuff! Whoda thunk I'd learn that in an LED thread?