Do you believe the gov. should have the right to impose seat belt laws?

[Fogdog]

If saving lives were important to the Nanny State, they wouldn't euphemize (sic) terms like "collateral damage".

If I have no right to impose my will on others (and I don't) how does a group of murderous thugs that call themselves your leader acquire this right?

no disagreement here.
1) You have no right to impose your will on others. Thank goodness.
2) Saving lives isn't important to the Nanny State. Saving money, time and resources including human capital are.

Seat belt laws are all about harm reduction that cuts cost of insurance and social cost in the medical system. Other than that, seat belts save the lives and well being of fathers, mothers and children so why argue about whether or not to use them? I don't understand why you call this law murderous.

Keep up the fight, you aren't achieving anything but I guess that nobody you know personally can stand you any more so you come here to get your jollies.

 

[Rob Roy]

no disagreement here.
1) You have no right to impose your will on others. Thank goodness.
2) Saving lives isn't important to the Nanny State. Saving money, time and resources including human capital are.

Seat belt laws are all about harm reduction that cuts cost of insurance and social cost in the medical system. Other than that, seat belts save the lives and well being of fathers, mothers and children so why argue about whether or not to use them? I don't understand why you call this law murderous.

Keep up the fight, you aren't achieving anything but I guess that nobody you know personally can stand you any more so you come here to get your jollies.

Sometimes in a room full of slow people, you might be considered a genius. Perspective, dear boy, perspective.

You are advancing a utilitarian argument, which relies on the treacherous default position of government having the right to order people around, rather than people having the right to peacefully run their own lives. It's the same flaw prohibitionists use when they attempt to justify their actions. "For your own good" is best determined by you, not by somebody else wielding a government stick.

 

[UncleBuck]

Not wearing your seat belt does not harm anyone or anything, therefore it is not a crime.

what about taxpayers like me having to pay to scrape welfare mooches like you off the concrete?

 

[Grandpapy]

When a govt. decides profits are better then an educated society, a safety switch on a microwave door is mandatory.
Passing lanes on 395 N of Victorville CA are removed due to??? making my commute 20-30 longer ??? Now that's just lazy EMT's and the states inability to educate drivers.

 

[ChesusRice]

No

 

[UncleBuck]

Millions of people out there that do nothing but consume.

how much welfare in the form of agricultural subsidies have you scooped up for leaving fields fallow or not planting a crop?

 

[Fogdog]

Sometimes in a room full of slow people, you might be considered a genius. Perspective, dear boy, perspective.

You are advancing a utilitarian argument, which relies on the treacherous default position of government having the right to order people around, rather than people having the right to peacefully run their own lives. It's the same flaw prohibitionists use when they attempt to justify their actions. "For your own good" is best determined by you, not by somebody else wielding a government stick.

Ha you are the idiot that thinks others are dumb because they don't agree with you. Your didactic speech isn't convincing anybody. Can you answer a few a direct questions with direct statements?

How is a seat belt law treacherous?
Do you hate seat belts? If so, why?

If you had read what I said rather than just sounded out the words, you would have not have read anything about how the law was for your own good. What I said was: Seat belt laws are all about harm reduction that cuts cost of insurance and social cost in the medical system. It is a law to reduce cost due a catastrophic accident. You might think it is a result of utilitarianism, but it is not -- moral worth is not required to justify the law.

I also said that seat belts save lives so you should use them but did not tie this statement into an argument to justify the law. Seat belts keep people's brains from shattering on windshields after a collision. A small risk to you but something that others want to avoid.

 

[Rob Roy]

Ha you are the idiot that thinks others are dumb because they don't agree with you. Your didactic speech isn't convincing anybody. Can you answer a few a direct questions with direct statements?

How is a seat belt law treacherous?
Do you hate seat belts? If so, why?

If you had read what I said rather than just sounded out the words, you would have not have read anything about how the law was for your own good. What I said was: Seat belt laws are all about harm reduction that cuts cost of insurance and social cost in the medical system. It is a law to reduce cost due a catastrophic accident. You might think it is a result of utilitarianism, but it is not -- moral worth is not required to justify the law.

I also said that seat belts save lives so you should use them but did not tie this statement into an argument to justify the law. Seat belts keep people's brains from shattering on windshields after a collision. A small risk to you but something that others want to avoid.

Sure I can answer your questions.

A seatbelt law is treacherous because it removes the default position of the individual owning themself and replaces it with an external authority having a higher power of decision over that same individual. It has a basis in the idea that the individual does not have the highest authority over his own body and his own property.

Prohibition, slavery, and things that negate the individuals freedom of choice spring from the same well. I have not given other people authority over my body, if they presume to have it, they are threatening force in a non defensive way (via the law), I reject that

No, I do not hate seat belts. I sometimes wear one.

If I didn't read your post properly, my apologies. If I included a barb in my reply, it was in response to the one you started with. I'm happy to be reasonable as long as you are.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Sure I can answer your questions.

A seatbelt law is treacherous because it removes the default position of the individual owning themself and replaces it with an external authority having a higher power of decision over that same individual. It has a basis in the idea that the individual does not have the highest authority over his own body and his own property.

Prohibition, slavery, and things that negate the individuals freedom of choice spring from the same well. I have not given other people authority over my body, if they presume to have it, they are threatening force in a non defensive way (via the law), I reject that

No, I do not hate seat belts. I sometimes wear one.

If I didn't read your post properly, my apologies. If I included a barb in my reply, it was in response to the one you started with. I'm happy to be reasonable as long as you are.

Do you believe adults carrying kids should make them wear seatbelts or let them decide for themselves if they want to wear it or not?

 

[Rob Roy]

Do you believe adults carrying kids should make them wear seatbelts or let them decide for themselves if they want to wear it or not?

I would not force my neighbor to make choices that I would in a similar situation.

My kids are grown, but when they were children we had all the baby and kid car seats and we used them.

 

[londonfog]

I would not force my neighbor to make choices that I would in a similar situation.

My kids are grown, but when they were children we had all the baby and kid car seats and we used them.

Man you're a walking breathing contradiction.
How do you feel about stop signs. Do you stop at those or is that "guvment" forcing you to do something, like STOPPING

 

[sheskunk]

 

[UncleBuck]

Lol, Robby compared seatbelt laws to slavery.

 

[ChesusRice]

Lol, Robby compared seatbelt laws to slavery.

Seat belt laws are rape.
However Rob Roy believes a child of 13 can consent to sex with an adult.

 

[Fogdog]

Sure I can answer your questions.

A seatbelt law is treacherous because it removes the default position of the individual owning themself and replaces it with an external authority having a higher power of decision over that same individual. It has a basis in the idea that the individual does not have the highest authority over his own body and his own property.

Prohibition, slavery, and things that negate the individuals freedom of choice spring from the same well. I have not given other people authority over my body, if they presume to have it, they are threatening force in a non defensive way (via the law), I reject that

No, I do not hate seat belts. I sometimes wear one.

If I didn't read your post properly, my apologies. If I included a barb in my reply, it was in response to the one you started with. I'm happy to be reasonable as long as you are.

"Adopting seat belt laws is a step towards absolute tyranny" or perhaps, "the US government is absolutely tyrannical therefore seat belt laws". Is that what you are saying? Jeez man, get a grip. There are other possible reasons for a seat belt law that does not include totalitarian government. Such as, seat belt laws are all about harm reduction that cuts cost of insurance and social cost in the medical system. It is a law to reduce cost due a catastrophic accident.

You are comparing seat belt laws to slavery too? Don't you find this a bit of an exaggeration?

Oh and your barbs add spice to the conversation. I toss back a few verbal dope slaps. Its all fun to me but if you don't like it, I'll stop. Probably not.

 

[bu$hleaguer]

I ride my motorcycle without a helmet and I don't wear a seatbelt when I drive my car. I also drink beer while I drive. I haven't had an accident or even gotten a speeding ticket since around 1999. Someday I'll probably get one but I'll worry about it then. Gotta enjoy freedom somehow.

 

[Rob Roy]

Man you're a walking breathing contradiction.
How do you feel about stop signs. Do you stop at those or is that "guvment" forcing you to do something, like STOPPING

That's interesting. I think I'm pretty consistent. Please support your claim with a list of contradictions orange thief.

 

[see4]

My point is the same thinking should apply to all travel. A person travelling on a road all face the same statistics. Regardless of mode of transport. Buses are in a lot more accidents than are reported.

Not true. Motorcycles are far more likely to be in an accident than a pickup truck, and far more deadly. Minivans and sports cars see the most accidents overall. Women drivers aren't as awesome as the televisions claim.

"Buses are in a lot more accidents than are reported." -- And you know this because you witnessed them all I suppose?

 

[OddBall1st]

Do you believe the gov. should have the legal authority to enact and enforce seatbelt laws against American citizens by threat of fine? Why/why not?

State to State, not on a Federal level, Driving is an earned privilege that can harm non driving citizens. Initial Stop for Seat belt infraction,..no, but a check in that box, on the ticket for rolling a Stop sign or speeding, ..... Why of course......

If you are stupid enough to drive without the straps, your dumb enough to think you can drive from the back seat or passenger`s window.

 

[torontoke]

Not true. Motorcycles are far more likely to be in an accident than a pickup truck, and far more deadly. Minivans and sports cars see the most accidents overall. Women drivers aren't as awesome as the televisions claim.

"Buses are in a lot more accidents than are reported." -- And you know this because you witnessed them all I suppose?

So if it's ok for motorcycle rider to travel without a seat belt because it's safer for them to be able to jump or be thrown off than does that mean that if you were to sit on the roof of your car it's safer than inside. Both modes of travel happen on the same roads doing the same speeds.
And about the bus accidents
I know this because I have a family member that drives a bus and 3/4 of the accidents are suicide related and they aren't reported on to keep copy cats down.

Either make everyone wear a seatbelt or no one. Obviously this day and age I agree not wearing one is stupid but choice is touchy when it comes to laws versus certain freedoms.