Deficiency help

[CanadianONE]

I know there is a ton of information out there and I have looked at lots, But at this point I can't seem to nail down what it is by looking at pictures alone. Looking for some advice from others. Plants are unknown strain outdoors, grown in promix BX with added perlite and roughly 30-40% coco. Using GH Hydro (Lucas Formula) in week three flower at the moment. PH has been steady 5.9-6.0 and nutrients hover around 950-1100ppm (Both tested on cheap meters) well water between 275-400ppm (Very hard) Not sure if there is anything else I can give you that would help out.

 

[nizmo]

Your first mistake was buying a soil that is no good for growing weed. The second mistake was to take it upon yourself and add extra shit to a pre-made soil mix. I don't blame you for any of these mistakes - i've made plenty of similar ones along the way. It is very difficult as a novice grower to weed out the good advice from the clueless morons spouting their ideas as if they were facts. You probably took the advice of some idiot who thinks adding 50% perlite to a soil mix is way better because you get mad drainage and o2 in the rootzone bro. In reality, there is a reason why soil producers do not add a shit ton of perIite into their mixes - BECAUSE YOU DONT NEED IT.

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Soil-Guide

Have a good read of that page and take some advice from some legitimate professionals. Here is an excerpt;

Do not buy products which state info such as “It is essential to begin fertilization within 7 days after planting and maintain fertilizer applications throughout the course of crop production.” This tells you that the soil has very low levels of nutrients and won’t support your plants beyond the early seedling stage. Pro-Mix BX (not to be confused with other Pro-Mix products) is one such brand that should be avoided. This soil mix has only 70-130 mg/l of nitrogen and 25-80 mg/l of phosphate. These are levels even below standard soil mixes for seedlings.

It's definitely a deficiency. All you can do is fertilize (i would recommend not going overboard - you can always add more fertilizer next watering but you can't take it back if you overdo it) and next time use a good soil and don't fuck with it.

The other thing to be aware of is that if you are constantly pH adjusting your water before you water, then you can end up ruining the pH balance of your soil which results in nutrient lockout at which point you are kinda fucked especially if you are in the middle of flowering. With a good soil that has pH stabilizers in it (which is most soils), you can just give your plant water straight from the tap for most of its life.

 

[CanadianONE]

I get everything your saying lol Pro mix BX was all that was available to me at the time and things were already drastically late being as I wasn't planning this to start with, As far as the perlite I didn't add all that much and the coco was just a bit of an experiment. Actually this whole grow was kinda a last minute experiment with some free clones. I have been fertilizing with every watering without any flush other then the natural rain they get. My PH from the tap is rather high (7.4-7.6) so I didn't want to take a chance not buffering it before. I do have plans to mix my own soil for next outdoor grow. Also I have been hand watering them cause they are in pots as well. Do you think I should just continue with my fertilizer schedule or can we identify what the deficiency is and target it.

 

[vostok]

Niz, got it, but on further observation, coco will absorb water (like wood does) holding water it will hold your nutes too, hence the imbalance, avoid trying to read the hydrogen content of your soil ...is just plain dumb and in years to come you will kick yaself, (I promise) better to read the leaves?
as you say you are in the 3rd week of flower using hard water...? time for some calmag, as often hard water will lock out any roots savaging for Magnesium traces in the soil.

Avoid changing soils, its too late(imo) but next grow go FFOF with a lot of perlite or better hunt out your local growers source, and tip well!
and its important ..No Nutes until you see an improvement

HERE: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/12-week-grow-sceneario-by-jorge-cervantas.30164/

 

[CanadianONE]

Can I use some epsom salts to supplement the Magnesium? So you think its mag def?

 

[nizmo]

I highly recommend you don't experiment with soil additives and i recommend even more strongly that you don't attempt to create your own. There are plenty of excellent brands that do a fantastic job. Best case scenario is that you will come close to matching the quality of a good pre mix, at worst you will fuck up your grow completely and get rubbish results. Seriously, unless you are an expert on soil makeup then you have nothing to gain by going well above your pay grade and attempting to create your own soil mix and everything to lose.

I don't know how closely you read my reply but let me re-iterate a very important point;
The number one advantage of using a good quality store brought soil mix is that you do not have to worry about pH. My tap water is even more alkaline than yours. My tap water is closer to a pH of 8. When i grow pot, i get a good quality soil and i feed it straight tap water for at least a month, sometimes more. Not a single drop of pH up/down (despite my high alkaline tap water) and not a single drop of plant food and what i get is beautiful thick lush green foliage from the bottom to the top. It's only mid way through flowering that i have to start adding extra fertilizer in my water (and even then, i do not need to adjust pH because the buffers in the soil take care of that).

I made the same mistake as you did by worrying about pH and adjusting my water so it was exactly right when it went in, and what happened was that by the time i was 5 weeks into flower my plants were suffering nutrient deficiencies because all of that pH up/down i was adding had fucked up the pH buffers in my soil. The result was an acidic soil which caused lockout and my yields and quality suffered for it big time.

For the situation you are in now, i would recommend a complete plant food with a decent level of nitrogen. Do not give it just magnesium and/or calcium - given the low quality of your soil it probably needs everything.

I get the feeling that you are going to do your own thing anyway, and that's cool. But i don't mind going to all this effort because people read these threads later, sometimes years later and this is the kind of advice i wish i had taken when i was starting out.

 

[CanadianONE]

I highly recommend you don't experiment with soil additives and i recommend even more strongly that you don't attempt to create your own. There are plenty of excellent brands that do a fantastic job. Best case scenario is that you will come close to matching the quality of a good pre mix, at worst you will fuck up your grow completely and get rubbish results. Seriously, unless you are an expert on soil makeup then you have nothing to gain by going well above your pay grade and attempting to create your own soil mix and everything to lose.

I don't know how closely you read my reply but let me re-iterate a very important point;
The number one advantage of using a good quality store brought soil mix is that you do not have to worry about pH. My tap water is even more alkaline than yours. My tap water is closer to a pH of 8. When i grow pot, i get a good quality soil and i feed it straight tap water for at least a month, sometimes more. Not a single drop of pH up/down (despite my high alkaline tap water) and not a single drop of plant food and what i get is beautiful thick lush green foliage from the bottom to the top. It's only mid way through flowering that i have to start adding extra fertilizer in my water (and even then, i do not need to adjust pH because the buffers in the soil take care of that).

I made the same mistake as you did by worrying about pH and adjusting my water so it was exactly right when it went in, and what happened was that by the time i was 5 weeks into flower my plants were suffering nutrient deficiencies because all of that pH up/down i was adding had fucked up the pH buffers in my soil. The result was an acidic soil which caused lockout and my yields and quality suffered for it big time.

For the situation you are in now, i would recommend a complete plant food with a decent level of nitrogen. Do not give it just magnesium and/or calcium - given the low quality of your soil it probably needs everything.

I get the feeling that you are going to do your own thing anyway, and that's cool. But i don't mind going to all this effort because people read these threads later, sometimes years later.

If it is deficient in all nutrients then it has to be due to lock out. Because they have been getting a good fertilizer treatment with every feed. I have never over watered always let the soil dry out a bit (Not too much) before feeding. With the weather lately they have been getting a feeding every second-third day. I was planning an organic mix with my own compost etc. I don't see how that is above anyone's pay grade as there are tons of growers doing it and I won't lie to you once I seen that link of your recommending the use of Miracle Grow I didn't read a whole lot more lol I have heard of and seen so many failures due to using crappy miracle grow products that when I see anyone recommending it I don't always pay much attention to the rest lol

 

[nizmo]

If it is deficient in all nutrients then it has to be due to lock out.

Or because you haven't given it enough of what it needs? It sure wasn't getting much from the soil you used. My point is that if its showing signs of deficiency, then you are better off feeding it a complete plant food rather than just focusing on a few micronutrients like calcium and magnesium. It looks like it could do with everything. It could be lock out. You could have done what i had done and fucked up your soil with all the pH adjusters you have been adding. Its impossible for anyone here to tell you conclusively.

I was planning an organic mix with my own compost etc. I don't see how that is above anyone's pay grade as there are tons of growers doing it

If you are strictly following a set of instructions from someone who knows what they are doing then sure, go for it. On the other hand, if you are just going to mix up a soil based on what you think is good (which i assume is why you added perlite and coco to your mix) then you are likely in for a poor grow and you sure as shit are not going to beat a quality store brought potting mix.

once I seen that link of your recommending the use of Miracle Grow I didn't read a whole lot more

You do realize that companies create products for different applications right? So while one type of miracle grow soil mix may be useless for growing weed, another one might be very good. In the same way that the particular soil you are using is no good, other soils in the range might be very good.

It's sad that you come here asking for advice because your grow isn't going so well, and when you are given a link containing excellent advice from a highly professional company who's entire business is growing and breeding high quality marijuana you suddenly become more qualified than them and disregard all of it because you saw they recommend a miracle grow product. Well, that is your loss my friend. Please continue growing sub standard buds, and i hope one day you can recognize good advice when you see it.

 

[CanadianONE]

Or because you haven't given it enough of what it needs? It sure wasn't getting much from the soil you used. My point is that if its showing signs of deficiency, then you are better off feeding it a complete plant food rather than just focusing on a few micronutrients like calcium and magnesium. Give it everything because . It could be lock out. You could have done what i had done and fucked up your soil with all the pH adjusters you have been adding. Its impossible for anyone here to tell you conclusively.


If you are strictly following a set of instructions from someone who knows what they are doing then sure, go for it. On the other hand, if you are just going to mix up a soil based on what you think is good (which i assume is why you added perlite and coco to your mix) then you are likely in for a poor grow and you sure as shit are not going to beat a quality store brought potting mix.


You do realize that companies create products for different applications right? So while one type of miracle grow soil mix may be useless for growing weed, another one might be very good. In the same way that the particular soil you are using is no good, other soils in the range might be very good.

It's sad that you come here asking for advice because your grow isn't going so well, and when you are given a link containing excellent advice from a highly professional company who's entire business is growing and breeding high quality marijuana you suddenly become more qualified than them and disregard all of it because you saw they recommend a miracle grow product. Well, that is your loss my friend. Please continue growing sub standard buds, and i hope one day you can recognize good advice when you see it.

Sorry if I acted as if I was brushing your advice off as that is not the case. I will have a better look at that site with an open mind. I just don't understand how they can recommend miracle grow regardless of which products as I have seen many fail but yet talk bad about Promix BX when I have seen many great grows with it. It just seems that everything there saying is completely against everything else I have read in the forum and seen with my own two eyes. I will try the next feed without adjusting PH. Do you think I should check runoff for the hell of it just too see whats going on in the soil? As far as the organic mix of course I was planning on following someone else tried and true recipe as I do not have enough experience in that field to just completely wing it. On a side note with all the deceiving and lying going on in this industry its hard to just take a company/manufacturers word for something. either way I do apologize if I came across the wrong way.

 

[70sdiver]

if it was me I'd flush then ph after at 1/4 strength of nutes.not sure why you added coco which holds water and perelite that doesn't. I ph soil at 6.5 but some one here that has more experience with coco can tell you if your ph is right for your mix.

 

[CanadianONE]

if it was me I'd flush then ph after at 1/4 strength of nutes.not sure why you added coco which holds water and perelite that doesn't. I ph soil at 6.5 but some one here that has more experience with coco can tell you if your ph is right for your mix.

TBH as I stated earlier this was a late start grow and wasn't planned so I just used what I had at my disposal. In all honestly I won't be disappointing with a smaller then normal yield because nothing was done to its full potential and anything is better then nothing. I just want to make sure there healthy enough to finish and not die off on me lol

 

[nizmo]

Its all good man. I don't take anything personally, im just offering you the same advice i wish had been offered to me.

On a side note with all the deceiving and lying going on in this industry its hard to just take a company/manufacturers word for something

If you doubt the credibility of that site, then look at their gallery. The quality and health of the plants right up until late flower is nothing short of outstanding. These people clearly know what they are doing, you don't even have to take their word for it, just look at their results. Granted they are growing with high quality genetics - but at the end of the day its the same species of plant and requires the same growing conditions. They have no reason to be deceptive about any advice on their site. If someone buys their seeds and follows their grow guide and the grow is shit, then that's bad for their business. They have a huge incentive to ensure that their customers grow top quality buds. So even if you think all they care about is sales, then its in their best financial interest to ensure their customers grow the best weed they can.

I really can't offer you any conclusive advice on your current grow. You may have upset the pH buffering qualities of the soil by adding the extra perlite and coco and all that pH adjuster. If it were me, based on what i know - i would stop adding pH adjusters and would give it a feed with a complete plant food with a relatively high N content. I realize you are in flower, but flowering plants still need N. Hopefully it comes right after a few days. I would then do my next grow with a quality potting mix and water with nothing but plain tap water until the plants start to show signs of requiring food.

Keep it simple. Thats the key. You don't need to do anything fancy to grow big and quality buds, you really don't. This is my current grow. Its 6 weeks into flower and no signs of deficiencies despite the fact that i water with pH 8 tap water. The soil takes care of pH and thats one of the biggest advantages of a quality soil. I have only needed to give these plants plant food a few times. Most times its just plain tap water.

 

[CanadianONE]

Its all good man. I don't take anything personally, im just offering you the same advice i wish had been offered to me.


If you doubt the credibility of that site, then look at their gallery. The quality and health of the plants right up until late flower is nothing short of outstanding. These people clearly know what they are doing, you don't even have to take their word for it, just look at their results. Granted they are growing with high quality genetics - but at the end of the day its the same species of plant and requires the same growing conditions. They have no reason to be deceptive about any advice on their site. If someone buys their seeds and follows their grow guide and the grow is shit, then that's bad for their business. They have a huge incentive to ensure that their customers grow top quality buds. So even if you think all they care about is sales, then its in their best financial interest to ensure their customers grow the best weed they can.

I really can't offer you any conclusive advice on your current grow. You may have upset the pH buffering qualities of the soil by adding the extra perlite and coco and all that pH adjuster. If it were me, based on what i know - i would stop adding pH adjusters and would give it a feed with a complete plant food with a relatively high N content. I realize you are in flower, but flowering plants still need N. Hopefully it comes right after a few days. I would then do my next grow with a quality potting mix and water with nothing but plain tap water until the plants start to show signs of requiring food.

Keep it simple. Thats the key. You don't need to do anything fancy to grow big and quality buds, you really don't. This is my current grow. Its 6 weeks into flower and no signs of deficiencies despite the fact that i water with pH 8 tap water. The soil takes care of pH and thats one of the biggest advantage of a quality soil. I have only needed to give these plants plant food a few times. Most times its just plain tap water.

Very nice may I ask what Plant food you do use when needed? I have some organic fish emulsion 5-1-1 would this work ok to try and get something back into the soil?

 

[nizmo]

Very nice may I ask what Plant food you do use when needed? I have some organic fish emulsion 5-1-1 would this work ok to try and get something back into the soil?

Just some nondescript plant food i got from a local plant store. You don't need anything fancy. Any generic complete plant food will do. I use an npk of 8-3-6 in veg (although i barely used it) and 4-2-8 for flower.

That stuff your talking about sounds whack. NPK is all wrong. Just use a complete plant food. I would give them my veg fertilizer (one where N is higher than P & K) because those plants look low on nitrogen.

 

[Tim Fox]

I know there is a ton of information out there and I have looked at lots, But at this point I can't seem to nail down what it is by looking at pictures alone. Looking for some advice from others. Plants are unknown strain outdoors, grown in promix BX with added perlite and roughly 30-40% coco. Using GH Hydro (Lucas Formula) in week three flower at the moment. PH has been steady 5.9-6.0 and nutrients hover around 950-1100ppm (Both tested on cheap meters) well water between 275-400ppm (Very hard) Not sure if there is anything else I can give you that would help out.

Hope your getting it fixed up brother, keep on growin, I went thru a bad patch of nitrogen tox about a week ago, went back to straight water in FFOF , and things are coming back around, some leaf damage , but light
any ways hope it gets fixed and your grow comes out well
edit : oh forget to say it was because I started adding nutes to an already hot soil probably could have gone water only this whole grow and it would have come out well

 

[CanadianONE]

Hope your getting it fixed up brother, keep on growin, I went thru a bad patch of nitrogen tox about a week ago, went back to straight water in FFOF , and things are coming back around, some leaf damage , but light
any ways hope it gets fixed and your grow comes out well
edit : oh forget to say it was because I started adding nutes to an already hot soil probably could have gone water only this whole grow and it would have come out well

We will see tomorrow how there looking. Gave them some nutes this morning and before dark they were already looking like they were loving it lol See if we have a little color back tomorrow.

 

[Tim Fox]

We will see tomorrow how there looking. Gave them some nutes this morning and before dark they were already looking like they were loving it lol See if we have a little color back tomorrow.

Hope you got it , they will turn around