Cleaning Hydroton 101

[AlphaPhase]

Oh, my point of suspended net pots.. You waste virtually zero hydroton since it's just a 5" net pot full. It becomes the roots basically so just toss them at the end of the grow. Saved me so much $ on hydroton, maybe 50 cents for the net pot and 50 cents for the hydroton. You can grow 4' plants in a 5" net pot like this as well. Man, I need to convert back to it

 

[AlphaPhase]

Oh, and I would totally use Alaric design if I could, but by the time I transplant, my suspended roots are like this if they are grown in the same tray, it sucks. So if anyone has any ideas let me know, I'm still trying to figure it out. (the rooted are folded up to be thrown out in the pic)

 

[AlphaPhase]

Eureka! I've figured it out!

4" net pot

4" drainage pvc pipe.

Cut the pipe onto 7" pieces (my trays are 5.5" tall). Set the net pot in the pvc tube. This leaves the bottom of the net pot at 4" flood level. The pvc will keep the roots contained (i think) and I'll be able to just lift the net pot out when fully vegged and put in the ebb buckets. Or take the whole tube and put it into another flood tray for flower. (holes will be drilled at bottom of the pvc)

I'm giving it a shot.

 

[ttystikk]

I'd love to ditch my hydroton media. I'm getting root drowning issues when I run a top feed through hydroton... which is how it's recommended to be used. Might I be running too much water? I notice that plants where the crown is up out of the hydroton don't seem to have trouble. This thought leads me back to a no media approach... hmmmm...

 

[AlphaPhase]

You know ttystikk, I hate hydroton too. I've always grown suspended net pots and only used the hydroton to anchor the plant. Just recently I've been using tons of it for an actual medium and have issues with it. It's also not the same hydroton I used to use, I feel it does hold much more water than what I remember pre 2010. I would put money on too much water as I'm flooding every 6 hrs now or less.

I'm going to get the supplies to do suspended pots again since what I posted above is the only possibility that could work for my set up, and if it works, I'll let you know. You would need to flood with this method though, or possibly continuous drip? I've never done drip systems before so I'm not sure how suspended roots would do, but this would eliminate the need for most media, just a handful of hydroton to anchor, or even a rw block I guess could work but I don't like rw and it wouldn't block the hole good enough to block light.

Mediumless flood and drain could be the future I've run the setup for so long, it's damn close to the speed of aeroponics and less to worry about. The roots I get with no medium in flood and drain are phenomenal, and more roots, more fruits.

 

[jronnn]

I see no reason why the method Alpha suggested wouldn't work.

YES----you can veg in an aerocloner----here's the method I use:


Something else you can do without net cups----since the stems are just supported by the neoprene inserts the plants can be adjusted up/down to achieve a level canopy.

Any, my 2 cents,

A~~~

thanks for the info but what do you do for flower, ebb and flow? when do you add netcups or your medium, could you explain that process please?

 

[jronnn]

I've never vegged in an Aero cloner before, I could see issues happening once adding nutrients because the water Temps might get too warm and cause issues. Plain water is much more resistant to pathogens, but once nutrients are added, pathogens are introduced much easier.

But if you don't run into any issues vegging in the cloner, what I would do is let the clones root, then when they have some roots maybe a couple inches long, gently place the hydroton in the net pot with the clones, then put back in the cloner until you're ready to flower. This should reduce stress and also the roots will take hold of the hydroton for support prior to flower. The plant will have no transplant shock from this other than adjusting from Aero to flood and drain. Hope this helps. @jronnn

yeah i would be using a chiller if i needed too but i honestly might not even really veg them, I might just use rooted clones with little to no veg but hypothetically if you used an aerocloner would you start the clone in a net pot (no hydroton) or do you think its better to wait till roots form before adding the netcup or would it be better to just add the netcup and the hydroton at the same time once theres a couple inches of roots?

 

[AlphaPhase]

yeah i would be using a chiller if i needed too but i honestly might not even really veg them, I might just use rooted clones with little to no veg but hypothetically if you used an aerocloner would you start the clone in a net pot (no hydroton) or do you think its better to wait till roots form before adding the netcup or would it be better to just add the netcup and the hydroton at the same time once theres a couple inches of roots?

All of my cloner use a net pot with a matching neoprene collar. So yes, that's what I would do. Use a net pot size that you would want to use to flower in with the matching neoprene puck to hold them in place. Then once roots form, ditch the puck, fill net pot with hydroton and flower. If you have no veg time and go directly to flower after just rooting, expect to do 64 clones per 4x4 tray for a good yield though. I've always had a little bit of veg time but in large clone numbers it's not needed.

I use these small net pots (i cut off the bottoms so roots can dangle while cloning) with a matching collar for my cloner. I would go this route except with 3 or 4" net pots and collars to do what you'd like to do.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Also, imo, it's easier to support a plant in a little bit of hydroton, I've used pucks to support in my first and second (the only time I've done aero) runs in Aero and they can flop easily without support. I really like the hydroton to anchor to give that extra support, what ever path you choose.

 

[ttystikk]

@Alaric you don't use media in your tubes, correct? How might you suggest I support a plant that's a couple feet tall?

 

[adower]

I hear ya. Have you tried suspended net pots? It's actually been the best way I've utilized my ebb buckets and eventually I'd like to get back to growing that way. You can either get a 2-3 gallon net pot bucket lid or make a lid like I do which use 5" net pots. It leaves the roots suspended and you can then flood every hour since there is no medium being flooded. The growth is so much faster, more yield, no salt build up, the positive factors are great. The only thing I couldn't figure out is how to veg like this separately. I've used dwc to veg and get some nice roots then transfer the net pot into the bucket lid but this was just a pain to do and took up too much room. Give it try sometime if you veg and flower in the same system, you'll love it.

I've actually thought about that. You've got a great idea. I could not figure out how to veg them and Xfer them over either. What Alaric posted up looks sweet.

 

[adower]

Alpha I've seen people use just perlite in a hempy bag in a ebb and flow. I might try that out. Perlite is dirt cheap.

 

[Alaric]

@Alaric you don't use media in your tubes, correct? How might you suggest I support a plant that's a couple feet tall?

Hey tty,

Correct----no medium used in tubes. As for support----depends on the type of system you're running. For the hanging tubes I just added a 1/2" emt pipe attached from chain to chain----used double sided velcro tape to anchor the plant/s to the 1/2" emt (if that makes any sense ).


Like this. Those white things on the pipe are called "flip clips"------was experimenting (as usual)-----cheap $30 for a 1000----available in different sizes too.

For something like a tote I suggest adding a pvc trellis for plant support.


Example of system without plants. I made a mistake using white panels instead of black (algae).

A~~~

 

[Alaric]

thanks for the info but what do you do for flower, ebb and flow? when do you add netcups or your medium, could you explain that process please?

jronnn----I tried to explain in my journal (link in my sig, toward the end). Holler back if you still have questions.

A~~~

 

[jronnn]

jronnn----I tried to explain in my journal (link in my sig, toward the end). Holler back if you still have questions.

A~~~

i was looking through it and i saw the tubes you use and i was trying to find it in the last 3 or 4 pages but couldn't find anything that answers those questions. I've actually seen your thread before and i get what you do with the tubes and the binder clips but that does really pertain to what I'm trying to do... all that was on the last few pages was you and the other growers talking about was court issues and that contraption you made with the 27 gallon tote and the pvc but maybe i did a bad job trying to explain what I'm trying to do? sorry about the confusion

 

[jronnn]

All of my cloner use a net pot with a matching neoprene collar. So yes, that's what I would do. Use a net pot size that you would want to use to flower in with the matching neoprene puck to hold them in place. Then once roots form, ditch the puck, fill net pot with hydroton and flower. If you have no veg time and go directly to flower after just rooting, expect to do 64 clones per 4x4 tray for a good yield though. I've always had a little bit of veg time but in large clone numbers it's not needed.

I use these small net pots (i cut off the bottoms so roots can dangle while cloning) with a matching collar for my cloner. I would go this route except with 3 or 4" net pots and collars to do what you'd like to do.

ahh that makes sense, i was going to either do 36 in a 3x6 (2 600w cooled hps) or 50 in a 8x4 (3 600w cooled hps) in 5"net pots, you think thats too much space for plants that are rooted 1 or 2 weeks total then put in flower? i was going to use clones with atleast 5 or 6 bud sites.

 

[AlphaPhase]

Alpha I've seen people use just perlite in a hempy bag in a ebb and flow. I might try that out. Perlite is dirt cheap.

I've thought about perlite before, super cheap but really messy and the dust from a new bag makes hydroton dust look like a cake walk lol. It also shifts quite aa bit more than I'd like during floods and can float a bit too much in the beginning. The chunky perlite on the other hand is much more suitable for us in ebb systems. I've not used it before though so not sure how it would do. I just really want to eliminate the need for so much medium, 4" net pot full I could totally handle, maybe I'd even use polished rocks from the dollar store, they would make great anchors and would be so easy to clean

 

[adower]

I've thought about perlite before, super cheap but really messy and the dust from a new bag makes hydroton dust look like a cake walk lol. It also shifts quite aa bit more than I'd like during floods and can float a bit too much in the beginning. The chunky perlite on the other hand is much more suitable for us in ebb systems. I've not used it before though so not sure how it would do. I just really want to eliminate the need for so much medium, 4" net pot full I could totally handle, maybe I'd even use polished rocks from the dollar store, they would make great anchors and would be so easy to clean

Yeah I am going to try the chunky perlite this next run I think

 

[AlphaPhase]

ahh that makes sense, i was going to either do 36 in a 3x6 (2 600w cooled hps) or 50 in a 8x4 (3 600w cooled hps) in 5"net pots, you think thats too much space for plants that are rooted 1 or 2 weeks total then put in flower? i was going to use clones with atleast 5 or 6 bud sites.

I think 50 in a 4x8 with 10-14 days veg after rooting would be perfect

 

[jronnn]

I think 50 in a 4x8 with 10-14 days veg after rooting would be perfect

thanks dude!!! you the man!!