Controlling through-the-roof medical costs

[Rob Roy]

UNIVERSAL MEDICAL CARE AND COVERAGE. Then there will be no 'uninsured' patient who 'can't afford' to pay.

And before the haters pile in with pronouncements about how the wealthiest nation in human history would be bankrupted by such a scheme, might I suggest looking at the defense budget.

So rather than use force to make people fund bombs, you'd rather use force to make people fund a limited set of government / cronies?


We do agree that forcing people to fund bombs is a bad idea....forcing people to fund other things is bad too though.

I'm curious why you think force in any realm is necessary?

 

[FauxRoux]

So rather than use force to make people fund bombs, you'd rather use force to make people fund a limited set of government / cronies?


We do agree that forcing people to fund bombs is a bad idea....forcing people to fund other things is bad too though.

I'm curious why you think force in any realm is necessary?

I'm curious as to what you think would be a step in the right direction? Its quite easy to shoot down our governments hypocrisy/actions...but if the goal is to have something better it has to start somewhere...

So I'm genuinely curious as to what you think would be the best first step towards that "something better".

 

[The_Herban_Legend]

I'm curious as to what you think would be a step in the right direction? Its quite easy to shoot down our governments hypocrisy/actions...but if the goal is to have something better it has to start somewhere...

So I'm genuinely curious as to what you think would be the best first step towards that "something better".

Anarchy, it seems.

 

[NLXSK1]

So I went to the eye doctor last month. Routine 2 year check up. He is a good eye doctor and tries to provide the most recent up to date diagnostic tests...

His office got 3 new diagnostic testing machines since I was there 2 years ago. Each one cost as much as a Mercedes, and replaced older machines that cost as much as a Mercedes a few years ago...

I got retinal scans, peripheral vision scan test, retinal photos that are retained for future comparisons, special photos of inner eye blood vessels to check for macular degeneration, glaucoma checks, etc.

My insurance receipt came back with these procedures...over $900 they paid out...

This was good quality medical care... The office is compassionate to those who don't have insurance. They charge an uninsured patient $75 and they get the same tests I did. Those new diagnostic testing machines are sitting there...and the office uses them to check everyone, insurance or not, as they should...

So there's your rising medical costs...over $900 on med insurance payout for me...driving up the costs...for a simple eye check up

So, the question is...how can you improve the system/lower costs...?

Eliminate some of the diagnostic equipment?
Make the uninsured pay more (that they don't have) or refuse them service?
Tell the Dr. to charge me less...after he spent $100K on new equipment to better serve me and others?

Obviously, my medical insurance is paying for others who don't have it for whatever reason...
And doctors want the best medical equipment they can get...which is pricey
Somebody has to pay for it...what's the solution to this scenario that repeats itself in every medical field?

We stop treating medical care like fantasyland and start treating it like any other good or service. Yes, your eye exam will be expensive but another doctor will buy those used machines that now cost as much as a used mercedes and charge used car rates for his service. There will be tiers of service just like for automobiles, housing, etc.

It is the government and insurance companies that are not allowing free market competition to drive prices lower.

 

[Flaming Pie]

I don't think so. When you're 65 you can sign up. But you still need supplemental insurance to cover the 20% that it doesn't cover.
I asked a Dr. once what people would have to pay if they didn't have insurance. He said we would try to be compassionate and charge them the 'Medicare rate', so it must be lower? Or maybe Dr's. charge more because they know insurance companies will pay...That sucks too

They definitely charge more when you have insurance. 84 dollars without insurance and 170 dollars with insurance.
Da fuck?

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm curious as to what you think would be a step in the right direction? Its quite easy to shoot down our governments hypocrisy/actions...but if the goal is to have something better it has to start somewhere...
So I'm genuinely curious as to what you think would be the best first step towards that "something better".

Yes, it is quite easy to shoot down governments hypocrisy. It's a target rich environment and by its nature it ALWAYS will be. You can polish a turd, but a coercion based institution will still be a turd when your arm gets tired of polishing it.... or voting in the least stinky turd etc. a process designed to serve as a major distraction to any challenges to the institution of government itself.

In any kind of arrangement between peaceful human beings it's best to have the voluntary individual consent of the parties involved before taking any kinds of actions that affect those individuals. So if a person or a group of persons deviate from that policy we'd likely not like their behavior. Yet, that kind of coercion based behavior forms the foundation of most governments.

One thing is to advance the idea that if something is wrong for you or I to do it, it's also wrong for a group of people calling themselves government to do it. Sounds obvious, yet the capacity of people to ignore this is legendary.

So, a step in the right direction is to get people to stop dwelling in their dissonance. That's not easy, since it is reinforced in many ways.

 

[Moldy]

If you understood the history of the back and forth between myself and Mr. London Fog perhaps your judgement of me wouldn't be quite so harsh.

Also, it's generally considered impolite when addressing somebody the first time to go a little slower than you have on the insults.
I'll forgive you. Have a great day.

Thanks.

 

[Flaming Pie]

Yes, it is quite easy to shoot down governments hypocrisy. It's a target rich environment and by its nature it ALWAYS will be. You can polish a turd, but a coercion based institution will still be a turd when your arm gets tired of polishing it.... or voting in the least stinky turd etc. a process designed to serve as a major distraction to any challenges to the institution of government itself.

In any kind of arrangement between peaceful human beings it's best to have the voluntary individual consent of the parties involved before taking any kinds of actions that affect those individuals. So if a person or a group of persons deviate from that policy we'd likely not like their behavior. Yet, that kind of coercion based behavior forms the foundation of most governments.

One thing is to advance the idea that if something is wrong for you or I to do it, it's also wrong for a group of people calling themselves government to do it. Sounds obvious, yet the capacity of people to ignore this is legendary.

So, a step in the right direction is to get people to stop dwelling in their dissonance. That's not easy, since it is reinforced in many ways.

What is your endgame tho?

I don't understand what you hope to accomplish.

Is there an example of what you want somewhere on this planet?

 

[potroastV2]

That's exactly it!

He is not from this planet.

HIS planet uses Earth as a mental hospital.

 

[NLXSK1]

They definitely charge more when you have insurance. 84 dollars without insurance and 170 dollars with insurance.
Da fuck?

The reason is they get paid immediately and do not have to file a phonebooks worth of paperwork to the insurance companies and hope they get paid eventually.

You would find that medical costs are 30-60% less if you offer to pay cash and they accept.

 

[see4]

Looked and didn't find the article about beeps and smartphones. Can you send me a link?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/11/beware-of-ads-that-use-inaudible-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/

 

[see4]

Your second paragraph is full of unicorns when you get to the part about the purpose of government. You laughably want your false champion, government, to solve the problem its edicts created when it acted forcefully to limit the number of service providers in a given market. Hint -Dousing your fire with gasoline will not put it out.

Thru existing government protectionism, the number of service providers in a given market are artificially limited, to the benefit of government and cronies and to the detriment of the consumers (you and me) . Scarcity is a word you haven't contemplated in this discussion. False scarcity (government induced) is something you haven't considered either.

When the number of service providers are limited to a set of favored cronies all the possible solutions aren't available and consumers won't benefit to the level they could.

Regulations, licensure, prohibitions, etc. RESTRICT the number of competitors in a given market, which results in higher prices and inferior products.

It's too bad you don't really understand the root causes, because until you do you won't be able to understand the solutions a free market provides.

Anyway I'm just beginning....Viva la free market!

We are all quite happy that your opinion is the minority and your ideas are based on hypotheses and not actual fact. We are all also very grateful that your decisions and opinions affect absolutely no one.

So for that I thank you.

 

[Glaucoma]

Yes, it is quite easy to shoot down governments hypocrisy. It's a target rich environment and by its nature it ALWAYS will be. You can polish a turd, but a coercion based institution will still be a turd when your arm gets tired of polishing it.... or voting in the least stinky turd etc. a process designed to serve as a major distraction to any challenges to the institution of government itself.

In any kind of arrangement between peaceful human beings it's best to have the voluntary individual consent of the parties involved before taking any kinds of actions that affect those individuals. So if a person or a group of persons deviate from that policy we'd likely not like their behavior. Yet, that kind of coercion based behavior forms the foundation of most governments.

One thing is to advance the idea that if something is wrong for you or I to do it, it's also wrong for a group of people calling themselves government to do it. Sounds obvious, yet the capacity of people to ignore this is legendary.

So, a step in the right direction is to get people to stop dwelling in their dissonance. That's not easy, since it is reinforced in many ways.

And yet the same questions remain:

Without Government and Taxes, who investigates and brings to justice the murderer of a homeless man?

What if the family of a victim doesn't have money to pay for an investigation?

If both parties in a dispute must agree on the same arbitrator, what makes you believe that a criminal who knows they are guilty would ever agree to go to court?

This crap holds water about as well as a fishing net.

 

[Flaming Pie]

Rob Roy manages to derail almost every thread with this No Government mantra.

Why is it so hard to stay on topic or within the area of related topics?

 

[ASCIIGHOST]

That's exactly it!

He is not from this planet.

HIS planet uses Earth as a mental hospital.

@rollitup if you ever need quality affordable treatment look no further than the free/voluntary market http://surgerycenterok.com/ the prices are listed on the webpage because smart doctors have figured out how to provide service at a lower cost to the consumer.

Welcome to planet Earth. You've been high for a few decades in space, and missed a few things. Welcome back.

 

[ASCIIGHOST]

Rob Roy manages to derail almost every thread with this No Government mantra.

Why is it so hard to stay on topic or within the area of related topics?

Because he wants to get to the root cause of the problem and you do not.

 

[ASCIIGHOST]

We are all quite happy that your opinion is the minority and your ideas are based on hypotheses and not actual fact. We are all also very grateful that your decisions and opinions affect absolutely no one.

So for that I thank you.

So you like to oppress minorities? Typical supremacy complex.

 

[ASCIIGHOST]

So I went to the eye doctor last month. Routine 2 year check up. He is a good eye doctor and tries to provide the most recent up to date diagnostic tests...

Translation: I got stoned, went to the same place I know, did not seek out competition for better rates. Now I'm an unhappy consumer of a service, and want to blame others for what is actually my fault.

I wear glasses too, and buy my frames online with a prescription I got 2 or 3 years ago. Cost me $60 shipped, and they can be had even cheaper I learned. I hate that eye puff test anyway. If I get glaucoma whatever....I already smoke weed to treat it.

 

[FauxRoux]

Translation: I got stoned, went to the same place I know, did not seek out competition for better rates. Now I'm an unhappy consumer of a service, and want to blame others for what is actually my fault.

I wear glasses too, and buy my frames online with a prescription I got 2 or 3 years ago. Cost me $60 shipped, and they can be had even cheaper I learned. I hate that eye puff test anyway. If I get glaucoma whatever....I already smoke weed to treat it.

I believe the issue people have with rob Roy is that he shoots down every response in every thread about government with anarchist viewpoints...and as I stated earlier, to a degree I not only agree with him but admire his resolve at not compromising his values. However....shooting down our government/pointing out its hypocrisies and failures is beyond easy. Coming up with a realistic system or an idea that may function better is the hard part.

People are here to discuss their views on medical costs and the system of government as it is. If he wants to talk about Utopian Anarchy start a new thread and have at it. I'll even meet you over there.

Maybe we can all pitch in and buy an island somewhere...lol

 

[Flaming Pie]

Because he wants to get to the root cause of the problem and you do not.

I will always want to live in a nation with a government.

Could I live with less government, yes. But no government means big fish eat little fish or survival of the fittest or man with the biggest stick wins.

Duck that