Al B. FAQt

[Al B. Fuct]

My question is i have been hand watering the cubes one a day for 4-5 days now in the cubes and
i just ran the table for the first time and it seems as tho the rockwool sucked 3 gallons up just being filled 1/3 of the way up the cubes..?

is this normal ? and should i worry over watering with these cubes ? And what size resivor do you think will work?

i have a 30 gallon and its barely works

Yes, it's very easy to overwater rockwool. You SHOULD worry.

Rockwool is highly absorbent and cannot be flooded frequently. Saturating rockwool drives all the air out which is required for root formation. While you can use rockwool slabs or pots of rockwool floc as the main growing medium, depending on the volume of the rockwool used, it can only be flooded 1x/day. I used 175mm pots stuffed only with RW floc for years.

When watering rockwool used as the main growing medium, you should allow the plant to remove about half the water weight from the RW before flooding again. If the RW is saturated, it will not take in more water, so flooding RW frequently is not only not good, it's big-time bad. The water in the medium will lose its dissolved O2 before the plant can take up the water, encouraging anaerobic pathogens.

The name of the game in hydroponics productivity is oxygen to the roots. If you can flood the roots more frequently with oxygenated nute solution, you can get more O2 to the roots.

RW does not lend itself well to frequent flooding, but because it holds a lot of moisture, is very good for starting clones.

Pellets hold almost no water and have large air spaces between them. You can flood roots which have knit down into pellets several times per lights-on.

For theses reasons, many people start clones in RW cubes but then plant them in pellets in flood systems once the roots are grown out of the cube bottom.

However, roots in cubes can not tolerate being watered as often as roots in pellets. To make the transition, newly rooted RW cubes should be nested in the pellets so the cube is about 1/2" ABOVE the flood level. The roots will seek down into the damp pellets below in a few days. If it makes you feel better, you can handwater the pellets AROUND the cube (not the cube) for the first week after a cube has been nested in the pellets- but they will find the pellets on their own if they are being flooded frequently enough.

The pellets should be flooded about 5x per lights-on. If the flood level is allowed to contact the cube, it will be saturated and you may get overwatering symptoms. Once the plant has been put in the pellets, the RW is extraneous.

Once the roots are knitted into the pellets, they'll do fine with 5x floods/lights-on or even more if the plants are large and vigorous.

I'd allow about 5L of reservoir capacity for each plant.

Not sure what you're up to with that thin layer of pellets in half your tray.

Sounds like you must be doing something right, I think Al is going to tell you mixing Hydroton and rockwool is not a good idea.

It can be done, as I've just described- you just have to assure that the cube isn't saturated when making the transition into pellets.

ok a few questions. 1: i have a pitiful excuse for a plant that has been in the growng for 14 weeks total. abt 7 weeks of veg and bloom. i got a few buds, but they dont "look" like buds. I can still see through the middle of the bud! how much longer should i wait?

Since you haven't told me anything about your setup, I'm going to look into my crystal ball... you're flowering with fluoros, right? 7 weeks of veg & bloom Did you start from seed or clones? How long did you veg? How long have they been flowering?

B: If i wanted to do one outdoor grow

Sorry, I'm not an outdoor guy. Can't help you.

Hey al i was wondering if i suck in air directly from outside into my growroom would this be better? But temps outside get to about 95deg so thats way to high, but how to do outdoor plants live?

Draw in the coolest air you can get. Dump it where it can't be sucked right back into the grow.

If you can't get air at ~25C to draw into your op, you will need aircon.

Outdoor plants show heat stress if they're exposed to high temps, too. Effects include leggy growth, runny or bolting buds, etc. If it's hot enough and dry enough for long enough, cannabis plants will cark it. Cannabis is a very thirsty plant.

ive done beautiful ones with high 80s and still got great crystal gowtgh so im happy with this

Your yield and density would have been lots better at 24-26C. THC begins to break down into non-psychoactive components at 29C, so high temps can be robbing you of potency even before you harvest.

Hey Al,

What container size would you recomend to grow individual plants in, within a SOG grow,

I use 175mm dia x 175mm tall pots which are about 4L in volume.

I plan on doing a SOG hempy style grow, not the traditional F&D slabs that most people use, only because this is what I'm most comfortable with.

You're on your own with Hempys. They keep roots submerged without oxygenation. That's a recipe for root rot. I'm glad you're comfortable with them. Rotsaruck.

Hey Al. I got my HPS in without the cooltube in the mean time, but I think I may have to shut it off. My temps are shooting up to 90* Probally higher in time if I leave on.

Nope, that won't work. Gonna have to improve the ventilation and get that cooltube. If you have 25C air to draw in, when you have everything right, it'll stay at 25C or very close to it.

 

[unity]

Hi Al, I read some of your responses above, and now I'm worried...
I run a drain to waste method, my pots are 12" with the bottom 80% being hydroton and the top 20% being rockwool. (my ph is finally stable, thanks for your earlier help on that ) I did that so my feed water would not run through so fast, seems to work, I have a lot less runoff. Do you think that I am robbing my plants of oxygen or is the 80% hydroton in the bottom good? I'm working on a 'perfect' environment, and certainly don't want to f up my grow with something like that?!
Thanks mate!

Unity

I had another question regarding something you mentioned above. Are you saying that even with co2 I should not exceed 78, or just without? I'm still dialing the co2 thing in and have been hearing different temps from different sources. Some say co2 needs higher temps in order to absorb the additional co2, others say 78, I'm lost!!!

Thanks again

 

[FLtoker]

Al,

First wanted to say thanks for your help on these forums. It has really helped me a lot. My question is how long should I wait to flower from seed for a SoG style grow like yours? I have a steady supply of clones and do not have room for mums. Just will root the clones, flower, then get a new batch of cuttings for the next run. I bought these seeds before I realized I would have clones on the regular. I have 3 Papaya and 2 Purps seedlings under 2 T5s right now on 24/0. No nutes yet, just pH'd water. Roots coming out of all but only one set leaves at about 1'' tall. When can I give them nutes and flower them for a SoG-style grow? Will be using a 600-watt cooltubed HPS for flowering over a 3x3 flood table.

 

[Kaosisglobal]

It wont hurt to leave it until then will it? The room is at 80F/26C. I am running only veg. I even wired the ballast to be out of the box. I've been dealing with temps in the low 80s, cause the temps stay high here. I can't get my room temps out of an average of 78*F. Room is the room where box is. That average is the ambient room temp. If you look at my journal it has been anywhere from 80-83*F on average in the box. The HPS brings it up 7*F. Do you think it is worth the difference. Or switch back until I have a cool tube or room temps get colder as summer fades.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Hi Al, I read some of your responses above, and now I'm worried...
I run a drain to waste method, my pots are 12" with the bottom 80% being hydroton and the top 20% being rockwool. (my ph is finally stable, thanks for your earlier help on that ) I did that so my feed water would not run through so fast, seems to work, I have a lot less runoff.

You have a layer of RW on the top and you're watering from the top? Rut roh. It's saturated every time you water. It's also catching the water and keeping it from getting to the roots down below in the pellets.

If you're using pellets, you should be flooding from the bottom. Pellets require watering frequently. I wouldn't have used them in a run to waste (RTW) system. Most of the water applied to the pellets will go straight through. For a RTW system, I'd have chosen a pot full of perlite, Fytocell or rockwool floc.

Do you think that I am robbing my plants of oxygen or is the 80% hydroton in the bottom good? I'm working on a 'perfect' environment, and certainly don't want to f up my grow with something like that?!

If your plants are in pellets, you should be watering them from the bottom with a flood system.

Sounds f'd up already. I think you should have copied a working, productive system instead of trying to invent your own.

I had another question regarding something you mentioned above. Are you saying that even with co2 I should not exceed 78, or just without? I'm still dialing the co2 thing in and have been hearing different temps from different sources. Some say co2 needs higher temps in order to absorb the additional co2, others say 78, I'm lost!!!

CO2 equipped ops can tolerate up to 29C max. Higher than that and d9-THC in the resin starts breaking down into non psychoactive components.

The plants can make use of the greater CO2 concentration at any temperature, but the plants can tolerate a higher air temp with CO2 enrichment. They will be able to grow faster at the higher room temp as the photosynthetic process is speeded up at higher temps. However, there's a limit of 29C to stop damaging potency while the buds are still on the plant.

Al,
how long should I wait to flower from seed for a SoG style grow like yours?

Plants from seed have to be grown to sexual maturity, when preflowers are showing at the nodes, about 6-8 wks under veg cycle light from sprouting beans. Once sexually mature, you then must sex the plant. This can be done by keeping the unknown sex plant in veg cycle light but covering one branch for 12h/day for about a week, or by taking a cutting, getting it to set root and then putting the clone in 12/12 light. It'll show sex in about a week.

I have a steady supply of clones and do not have room for mums.

If you have 2 sq ft, you have enough room for a mum. You're going to have to find room to veg your plants which you are growing from seed anyway.

When can I give them nutes and flower them for a SoG-style grow?

They can have nutes when they have their 2nd set of 'true' (multi-bladed) leaves.

SoG depends on a large number of small plants, started as clones so sex is known. The clones taken from a sexually mature mum are also sexually mature. You won't be SoGing your seedlings. They'll need to be grown to sexual maturity and sexed- then you can take cuttings from them and do your SoG grow.

It wont hurt to leave it until then will it? The room is at 80F/26C. I am running only veg. I even wired the ballast to be out of the box. I've been dealing with temps in the low 80s, cause the temps stay high here. I can't get my room temps out of an average of 78*F. Room is the room where box is. That average is the ambient room temp. If you look at my journal it has been anywhere from 80-83*F on average in the box. The HPS brings it up 7*F. Do you think it is worth the difference. Or switch back until I have a cool tube or room temps get colder as summer fades.

Switch back to what?

80F is not horrid but you will see stretch in veg growth.

I know a guy named Stoney McDoper who tends to start plants first and build the grow room later... it doesn't work for him, either.

 

[KidCreole]

Five 27k 6500w (is that supposed to be reversed?) cfl bulbs and its been fourteen weeks from germination, not counting the week it took for them to pop open, but rather the day i planted them. Since it's only one plant, its just a closet about three feet tall and about one and a half feet across. did i miss anything?

 

[iloveit]

Hey Al I have a simple (I think) question which has been bothering me since I read your "Get a harvest every 2 weeks" which is (in regards to "Get a harvest every 2 weeks":

You mentioned you place your cut clones straight in to flowering, so why do you have clones in a clonebox under floros (I think it was foros, which gave me the impression that you kept it in veg for a while before puting in flower)?

Secondly If I were to place my clones to flower room would it be at all helpful if I was to use a dual spectrum HPS bulb (in terms of growth or otherwise for that matter)?

Hope you reply dude.

 

[Chumlie]

Im also wondering about puting the clones in veg first. I have cabby for flowering then two peices of wood screwed on the top of the cabby that reach about 3 feet off to the right holding eventual two fluros, but right now just one with 20watt cool white and 20watt warm white. The veg. area is an aero system that I want to grow mums in. Now I wondering what system you think I should transfer them into for flowering.


Also I just put up some mylar sheets that I got from party city. So there a bitch to hang up, and there all loose and not flat, parrallel to the wall is this going to cause light to focus on certain point? (burning)

 

[Al B. Fuct]

did i miss anything?

I know enough now to tell you what's happening. Flowering with fluoros yields fluffy buds.

Replace the CFLs with a small HPS. A 400 will keep several people in smoke forever.

Hey Al I have a simple (I think) question which has been bothering me since I read your "Get a harvest every 2 weeks" which is (in regards to "Get a harvest every 2 weeks":

You mentioned you place your cut clones straight in to flowering, so why do you have clones in a clonebox under floros (I think it was foros, which gave me the impression that you kept it in veg for a while before puting in flower)?

The fluoros are in there only to convince the clones that it's daylight for 18+h/day. This keeps them in veg mode (as the plant material was while it was still on the mother plant) while they are setting root, until they are ready to be chucked in to flower. No appreciable veg growth occurs in the clonebox under the fluoros.

When plants are in veg mode and are chucked in to 12/12 under the, big lights, they will keep growing in a veg habit though which tapers off during the first 4 wks, while the flowering habit ramps up.

If I were to have 12/12 light in the clonebox, I would be triggering the flowering habit early, while they were getting very little light from fluoros. If they were then chucked in to flower under big lights, they would only continue in a tapering veg habit for 2 weeks. This would result in stunted plants, I'm betting about 500mm tall instead of coming up to about 1m by the end of wk 4.

So, when I talk about 'zero veg time,' I mean (and usually do specify) 'zero-veg time post setting root.' This differs from the process of giving a clone some veg time under a big light to get some appreciable veg growth before flowering. If clones are vegged under big lights before flowering in SoG, they get too tall, negating the benefit of a well developed albeit short budstalk.

Secondly If I were to place my clones to flower room would it be at all helpful if I was to use a dual spectrum HPS bulb (in terms of growth or otherwise for that matter)?

If you're talking about a combination MH/HPS lamp or a pair of mixed MH & HPS lamps, no, they wouldn't be helpful. The bluish spectrum of MH can cause buds to come up excessively leafy. Stick to plain old HPS for flowering.

I wondering what system you think I should transfer them into for flowering.

Flood systems are simple and reliable.

Also I just put up some mylar sheets

Mylar can cause hotspotting. It also is hard to clean and loses its reflectivity when not perfectly clean. Replace it with panda film, white side to the plants, of course.

 

[Chumlie]

Good to hear, Im trying to make a vaporizer out of an soldering iron. Do you have any blue prints are any advice?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Good to hear, Im trying to make a vaporizer out of an soldering iron. Do you have any blue prints are any advice?

Yep, built and docmented back in 2000.

The basic plan - and 8 years on, my kindergarten art is NO better.

calibrating the temp dial

'mazing what you can make out of a soldering iron & a pickle jar, innit.

 

[iloveit]

So there kept in the clonebox for root development.

Thanks Al I didnt think youd have time to reply to my question there many people with queries.

Thanks again much appreciated.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

So there kept in the clonebox for root development.

Yep, that's all they're doing in there.

Thanks Al I didnt think youd have time to reply to my question there many people with queries.

Thanks again much appreciated.

No worries. I try to get to them all, every once in a while I miss one.

 

[gvega187]

most random question ever, but of course ALby had a schematic and everything from 8 yrs ago when he invented the vaporizer before you were born.

neways, I read a few pages back that you recommended hps over flouros for "mums". This is apprently due to the thick stems they will generate.

1)will this work with red spectrum very high output flouro bulbs?

2)if so, a 250w should cover about 8-10 moms right?

 

[unity]

Thanks for your advise I know the mix of rockwool and hydroton was not a great idea,lol, but the dtw was an afterthought. I will make sure to pick a more suitable medium for my next grow
Also thanks for the co2 info, makes perfect sense

Unity

 

[Chumlie]

Al I've ask you about 4 or 5 questions in last 12 hours and you responded very quickly, and I say gracias el señor Al. My qestion retains to the clones (Iloveit). You put yours straight into the flowering. I want to do a sea of green aswell, so I was going to use may six plant aero pontic system to grow five right now for veg. I could not get the six one up. So anyways I was going to grow these five to a foot and half make clones of them put them into flowering to figure out sex. Then the best two out of the five I would keep mothers the rest just flower, and use the open four net pots to grow up the clones. Is this a good plan?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

most random question ever, but of course ALby had a schematic and everything from 8 yrs ago when he invented the vaporizer before you were born.

heh, seems a bit convenient that I had that lying about. Of course, I didn't invent the vape, just made a copy. Course, when you get to my advanced age, you've done nearly everything before most people were born.

neways, I read a few pages back that you recommended hps over flouros for "mums". This is apprently due to the thick stems they will generate.

1)will this work with red spectrum very high output flouro bulbs?

2)if so, a 250w should cover about 8-10 moms right?

Depends on how fast you need your mums to veg up after doing cuttings. Fluoros will be slow, HPS will be quicker by far.

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My mums under a 400HPS recover in 14 days, growing about 600mm in that time.

Thanks for your advise

No worries.

Is this a good plan?

Works for me.

 

[grandpabear3]

al's method ( aside from a lil cloning adventure ) works for me to a tee. i am, 6 weeks from monday, going to be back in perpetual weed albfuct style. i keep 6 mums and only take 5 or so off each one then prune them back like al's girls there....well i still cant bring myself to chop em that bad but i'm getting meaner/better all the time...just a lil thanks to you again al...your design works perfectly and as a result so does mine.

 

[Chumlie]

How far should a 20watt fluro be away from the canopy? Mine is 4 to 5" above most of the plants, but one that is a week and half older than the rest. So it is 2" above it. Im wondering because the first set of true leaves have gray edges and the fan leaves have yellow tips. It's either that are nute burn, but I dout it cus Im using foxfarms grow big half normal solution until this week ends. What do you think?

 

[Kaosisglobal]

Switch back to what?

80F is not horrid but you will see stretch in veg growth.

I know a guy named Stoney McDoper who tends to start plants first and build the grow room later... it doesn't work for him, either.

To my twin tube floros; check journal. I was at low 80F with them and now it goes up to 90F with HPS. The ambient room temp where box is, is usually room temp. Right now it is 75F and the growbox is 90F. I am guessing it is all sitting on the cool tube, (That I don't have)

This box is supposed to be all veg. Then I want to build my bloom box around a digi 600HPS. I did the box first, but I built it around those floros, check my journal al, I've been working hard