Weird Issues

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DrShiny

Member
I'm a little lost here.

I have 2 small plants here that are about 3 and 4 weeks old. Grown from bag seed, I thought they were the same strain but I'm thinking now that they are definitely not. It looks like one is an indica and one is a sativa.

I started them out in an organic soil mix, but found quickly that the soil had too much bark in it and it wasn't allowing the roots to develop. I also Over-watered them because the soil wouldn't drain. So at about 2 weeks old I transplanted them into this very fluffy and light mix of mostly peat moss, and perlite.

They were pretty severely over-watered because i'm an idiot. So I'm trying something unusual to get them to recover. I'm spot watering them through a small hole in the side of the pot by the bulk of the root mass so I can give them less water and still get the roots wet. And i'm also using about 5ml 3% H2O2 per quart. as well as 5ml white vinegar to bump the ph down a bit. I don't have a way to ph test, but my best guess was that it was a bit too high, and both plants seem to be responding well to the addition of vinegar. The H2O2 seems to be working well to give the roots a little extra oxygen till the soil gets dryer. But the soil still seems too damp even after 4-5 days since a light watering.

I've also been putting those tubes into the soil hooked to a small aquarium air pump just to help drying a bit.

They are under (6) 23w CFL bulbs. 3 Cool color, 3 warm. Ventilation is pretty good. Temps are staying around 72-76F at the plant tops. Giving them 24/0 Light.

What are your thoughts on some things I might do to get them healthier? Or should I just sit back and let them dry out a bit?

The Indica-looking plant seems to just be suffering a bit at the tips of the oldest leaves and perhaps a little curling from too much water.

The other plant is all kinds of messed up.
 

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Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
What the fuck are you doing? Stop thinking because it seems like every time you think of something you do it and its totally wrong. Everything you mentioned is rediculous and makes me shudder.

You want to save your grow? Do this. Screw peat moss, its too complicated for you. Go buy some fox farm ocean forest, or happy frog. And three gallon pots for all the plants you have. Transplant those dying plants into five gallon containers before you kill them and just add water for the next month. Then start adding an easy to use two part fertilizer.

Stop adding vinegar, stop adding h2o2, get the aquarium pump out of the soil, and sit on your hands. Water the plant when the container is light or the leaves start to sag a little. Then sit on your hands again. You dont grow the plant, you provide the best environment for the plant and watch the plant do the work. Youll need more light if you want to see a return and you seriously have to stop doing wierd things to those plants.
 
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DrShiny

Member
Well thank you for the advice, but honestly I don't think I should follow it yet. See how the tips of the new leaves are yellow, but the new growth is green? That green corresponds to when I began the vinegar. I strongly suspect that the pH was too high for the plant to absorb some nutrients. The stems on seedlings were very purple.

I understand your logic about not fucking with them and letting them do their thing, but at the moment what i'm doing seems to be helping more than hurting, so i'm just going to stick with it and make small adjustments away from these measures as the plant recovers.
 
SamsonsRiddle

SamsonsRiddle

Well-Known Member
you can give roots less water right through the top there, bud. Just measure it out and forget about trying to get runoff. 1oz per watering MAX. The water doesn't have to even hit the bottom of the roots for the plant to drink. Those cups you are using also hold more water than a normal "party" or "solo" cup.

I would lay off all the other shit and buy a $20 etekcity .05 accuracy ph pen off of amazon or ebay or something. maybe some extra 4.01 solution to let the diode rest in after you use it.

what kind of water are you using? distilled will be lower ph than most tap if you need something lower.

What nutes are you using? maybe something simple would work best, some 1 part nutrient with all the macros and micros you need.

you have a long road ahead of you but there is still time to recover.
 
J

JungleTime

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
Well thank you for the advice, but honestly I don't think I should follow it yet. See how the tips of the new leaves are yellow, but the new growth is green? That green corresponds to when I began the vinegar. I strongly suspect that the pH was too high for the plant to absorb some nutrients. The stems on seedlings were very purple.

I understand your logic about not fucking with them and letting them do their thing, but at the moment what i'm doing seems to be helping more than hurting, so i'm just going to stick with it and make small adjustments away from these measures as the plant recovers.
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I agree, I think you should take his advice, he took the words out of my mouth.

Its a plant, not a science fair project. You can do all the fancy things like adding h202 (which you DONT DO in soil), adding air pumps in the soil, using vinegar as ph down.

Basically you dont ph water in soil as it corrects itself. You now have to ph your water because you put h202 in your soil which basically killed all the beneficial bacteria that corrects the ph. Peat moss holds enough air as is so you dont have any need for an air pump in the soil.

Your trying to use hydro methods on soil which is just a head ache and asks for problems. Soil sticks with soil methods and hydro sticks with hydro methods. Thats why you dont see people using ebb and flood with soil. Your asking for problems a LOT of them.
 
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DrShiny

Member
I truly get your point. I wouldn't have done these things if I didn't damage them by putting them in the wrong soil and over-watering them in the first place. I realize that the h202 will kill good bacteria. But it seemed to be the only way to get oxygen to the roots so I am only spot watering it at a tiny spot near the bottom trying to let it sip some oxygen through the fresh water without wiping out the soil microbes.

Again, for the moment, they are improving. So if they keep improving, I'm going to keep doing what i'm doing but try to wean them off it as they get healthy.
 

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polishpollack

polishpollack

Well-Known Member
alienwidow is mostly right except for the idea of changing the soil, but is wrong about needing to add more fert. the purpose to using these soils is that you don't have to add fert, at least not for quite some time anyway. the pH down being done here isn't so great as soil pH is the range of 5.8-6.8. frankly, I still don't understand why people insist pH downing anything.
 
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DrShiny

Member
So here is the update.
Most of the yellow leaves died off the smaller plant, so i trimmed them off. The new growth seems healthier, but its growing very slowly. The smaller plant is actually 2 weeks older than the larger one.
The larger one is steadily recovering from the over-watering. I'm giving it just plain tap water, nothing added. 4oz. roughly every 3 days. I let the leaves start sagging pretty good before I water, and then give it enough to saturate the soil pretty good to about half way down the pot. The leaves are flattening out and returning to a normal texture a little more after each watering. I am noticing though that the newest growth, which looks really nice in shape, is yellowing a bit. Do you think the miracle gro nutes in the peat mix are already depleted? Should I start nutrient supplement. Or is it normal?

In the pics, notice how slow the growth on the small plant is compared to earlier. But the slowly growing new leaves look a lot healthier. I'm barely giving this plant water. About 2oz ever 4 or 5 days. This plants leaves dont seem to sag or curl at all so its a bit more difficult to tell what its thinking which is annoying.

Essentially I guess this stuff they are in is just peat moss and perlite with like 1 months worth of miracle grow nutes. So should I transplant them into the right soil or just start giving them nutes and treat it as a soil-less grow? Whats my best bet? What would you do, and how does that water schedule sound? How do you normally water plants this size?

Thanks for any help, its appreciated. I'm obviously new at this but i'm trying to learn really hard.
 

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R1b3n4

R1b3n4

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
So here is the update.
Most of the yellow leaves died off the smaller plant, so i trimmed them off. The new growth seems healthier, but its growing very slowly. The smaller plant is actually 2 weeks older than the larger one.
The larger one is steadily recovering from the over-watering. I'm giving it just plain tap water, nothing added. 4oz. roughly every 3 days. I let the leaves start sagging pretty good before I water, and then give it enough to saturate the soil pretty good to about half way down the pot. The leaves are flattening out and returning to a normal texture a little more after each watering. I am noticing though that the newest growth, which looks really nice in shape, is yellowing a bit. Do you think the miracle gro nutes in the peat mix are already depleted? Should I start nutrient supplement. Or is it normal?

In the pics, notice how slow the growth on the small plant is compared to earlier. But the slowly growing new leaves look a lot healthier. I'm barely giving this plant water. About 2oz ever 4 or 5 days. This plants leaves dont seem to sag or curl at all so its a bit more difficult to tell what its thinking which is annoying.

Essentially I guess this stuff they are in is just peat moss and perlite with like 1 months worth of miracle grow nutes. So should I transplant them into the right soil or just start giving them nutes and treat it as a soil-less grow? Whats my best bet? What would you do, and how does that water schedule sound? How do you normally water plants this size?

Thanks for any help, its appreciated. I'm obviously new at this but i'm trying to learn really hard.
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Why ask for more advice when you have ignored all other advice given to you?

Looks like a N def, what are you feeding them as i cant find anywhere you mention it
 
D

DrShiny

Member
I said I'm not giving them anything but plain water yet. And as I recall, thats the advice I was given. I wasn't giving them any because I figured the miracle grow mix its in is pretty hot as it is. My question was should I start or should I transplant them into good soil?
 
J

JungleTime

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
I said I'm not giving them anything but plain water yet. And as I recall, thats the advice I was given. I wasn't giving them any because I figured the miracle grow mix its in is pretty hot as it is. My question was should I start or should I transplant them into good soil?
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If you transplant into some fox farm ocean it'll feed the plant enough to get it to around a foot so you don't needa fuck with giving it nutes. But your gonna have to start feeding it something, it's probably been running on the nutrition from the seed itself till now if you just been giving it water. Getting a good staple is actually what you need now. Look into a 2 part or three part nutrient line like general hydroponics. I prefer them but some Luke other lines
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
Well thank you for the advice, but honestly I don't think I should follow it yet. See how the tips of the new leaves are yellow, but the new growth is green? That green corresponds to when I began the vinegar. I strongly suspect that the pH was too high for the plant to absorb some nutrients. The stems on seedlings were very purple.

I understand your logic about not fucking with them and letting them do their thing, but at the moment what i'm doing seems to be helping more than hurting, so i'm just going to stick with it and make small adjustments away from these measures as the plant recovers.
Click to expand...
pH of peat moss is already 4.0-4.5. 5.0 at best! And you add vinegar - why?
 
SamsonsRiddle

SamsonsRiddle

Well-Known Member
DrShiny said:
I said I'm not giving them anything but plain water yet. And as I recall, thats the advice I was given. I wasn't giving them any because I figured the miracle grow mix its in is pretty hot as it is. My question was should I start or should I transplant them into good soil?
Click to expand...
it was suggested to transplant a while back into ffof or something similar that is a simple water only for a few weeks to a month. Transplant to a 1 gallon container and continue to water lightly for a week or two until the plants improve. There are plenty of threads of how to transplant properly if you look around. make sure you do it the day after a water, and fill up container around an empty cup like the one you used for your plants then flip your cup upside down and pop the plant out into your hand and put where the cup hole is in your soil, and make sure you bury most of the stem.
 
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