The bad seed thread.

[SwankyDank]

Who else can offer experiences with bad seeds? Preferably with pictures.

Mandala, Krystalica, purchased from Herbies, planted 12/28/15, 4 never sprouted, 4 are growing, 2 died during surgery.

Sorry for the blur. What this is showing is a seed that was not fully ripe. The seed leaves (cotyledons) were not developed and were unable to open or push off the seed coat. I had to dig it up and scrape off the seed coat with the tip of a pin, revealing the expected result. That little brown bit is holding the deformed cotyledons together and so I had to also very carefully remove it by lightly holding down the tiny stem with my left pinkie while slowly scraping at it until it broke away. The leaves could barely separate but I was able to pry them open a bit to give the true leaves a better place to start growing.

3 seeds never cracked. 2 died while in surgery, 3 made it with lots of help, and the other 2 were able to push up but still needed help with the coat.

 

[kermit2692]

Lmao problem one: Do not "do surgery" .. This was fun lets do again sometime.

 

[SwankyDank]

Lmao problem one: Do not "do surgery" .. This was fun lets do again sometime.

Your opinion.

My opinion: Problem one is that growers, especially new growers, need to know that there are breeders who don't know how to produce quality seeds or put bad seed on the market even when they know they failed. There should rarely or never be any problems with a seed produced and stored properly. Most agricultural seed companies guarantee 95%+ successful germination on their seed. The key word being successful.. which means the plant sprouts and grows with no assistance.

Problem two is how to salvage something with the bad seeds produced by these breeders. In my past work every single seed like this has died. When left to their own fate, 100% death rate. The plant is deformed and it stays stuck shut until it dies. I would estimate that I have had 30 seeds die this way before I figured out it wasn't my fault.

Once I started studying the dead seeds after they had died I could see what was happening and why they were dying. By helping them along I have been able to salvage 90% of bad seeds that actually germinate. Went from 100% death to 10% death. So surgery isn't the problem, bad seed is the problem.

I also popped 10 Mandala Ganesh and every single one was able to sprout and grow with no assistance. I didn't touch them.

 

[COGrown]

I've had better get rates with Mandala (100%) then any other breeder. Grown Satori, Beyond the brain, point of no return, and their safari mix. No duds at all. Great hash plants and truly unique genetics.

 

[SwankyDank]

I've had better get rates with Mandala (100%) then any other breeder. Grown Satori, Beyond the brain, point of no return, and their safari mix. No duds at all. Great hash plants and truly unique genetics.

I've read great things about Mandala, that's why I ordered these. Unfortunately it is obvious that something is wrong with the Krystalica. I'm hoping that the ones that are growing turn out at least two nice females. They are mostly Indian Kerala sativa... great strain.

 

[Diabolical666]

WE can look at seeds and say "damn, now thats a nice looking cannabis seed" and plant that and have a strong sturdy plant...what did the seeds look like upon planting them...you mentioned not fully ripe" I wouldnt have planted anything but that ^^^^^^^^. Kinda off topic but I found this the other day, and I was going to run the same test to see if its legit...

tell me what ya think

 

[bict]

Green house seeds.

 

[SwankyDank]

WE can look at seeds and say "damn, now thats a nice looking cannabis seed" and plant that and have a strong sturdy plant...what did the seeds look like upon planting them...you mentioned not fully ripe" I wouldnt have planted anything but that ^^^^^^^^. Kinda off topic but I found this the other day, and I was going to run the same test to see if its legit...

tell me what ya think

They looked small, light-gray or tan, not fully matured, and they were floaters.

 

[Diabolical666]

They looked small, light-gray or tan, not fully matured, and they were floaters.

Ive never planted any that looked like that thinking the same, not matured, not ripe. Now I know what will happen if I did. thanks for sharing that

 

[SwankyDank]

Ive never planted any that looked like that thinking the same, not matured, not ripe. Now I know what will happen if I did. thanks for sharing that

I love that video. Thanks for the information. I'll try it and see how it goes.

It makes me sad though... In my five Herbies orders I don't think I have ever received a beautiful, dark brown, mottled seed. Either they were picked over or Herbies only sells second-rate seeds.

 

[Dr. Who]

Damping off and improper popping are more likely your problem

If the seeds did not "crush or collapse" between your fingers with light to medium pressure. They should be viable.

 

[Diabolical666]

I love that video. Thanks for the information. I'll try it and see how it goes.

It makes me sad though... In my five Herbies orders I don't think I have ever received a beautiful, dark brown, mottled seed. Either they were picked over or Herbies only sells second-rate seeds.

oh shit reeeeally...I get gifted seeds, but i have bought some here n there...Ive gotten some bad phenos, good phenos and a few inmature seeds snuck into the 5 packs that I missed. But yea I can see how it would be easy to scam some people on some shit seeds. Thankfully they arnt too damn expensive, so the hit dont hurt. And they probably figure..if the grower gets one fem then they will be happy and just clone it

 

[Diabolical666]

Damping off and improper popping are more likely your problem

oh yea maybe so..thats kinda alotta water in that pot...I drizzle water around my seed in the soil

 

[Dr. Who]

WE can look at seeds and say "damn, now thats a nice looking cannabis seed" and plant that and have a strong sturdy plant...what did the seeds look like upon planting them...you mentioned not fully ripe" I wouldnt have planted anything but that ^^^^^^^^. Kinda off topic but I found this the other day, and I was going to run the same test to see if its legit...

tell me what ya think

Mostly BS!
50% of seeds are predeterminate sexually.(Female)
The other 50% will respond to environmental conditions, right up to 3-4 nodes, before making the sexual "choice"......
With proper popping and early seedling care - 90%+ females are possible......The best I've done is right at 90 and one of my employees gets an average of 95.....She's REALLY good at it!

 

[SwankyDank]

Damping off and improper popping are more likely your problem

Thank you for responding.

I have been growing vegetable and wildflower seed starts for 15 years and went through the learning curve with improper methods. I've seen damping off many times and that wasn't the problem here. I've popped many ornery wild-flowers that needed scarifying and two to four week germination periods with no problem.

I haven't had this many problems in 12 or 13 years and it wasn't until I started growing cannabis that I had them. Even then, at first I put all the blame on myself, until I saw how easily and vigorously quality cannabis seeds perform. I put cannabis on the same level of easiness as beginner seeds like sunflowers or brassicas. So I put the blame on breeders.

 

[SwankyDank]

Here is the one Krystalica that popped and emerged in two days after planting. This is eight days from planting. It has intact seed leaves that quickly greened up and are continuing to grow and provide food for the plant. At some point they will yellow and fall off, but not for quite a while.



Here is the bad seed eight days from planting and two days after the first picture in this thread. The average plant (like the one pictured above) has fully developed, soft, pliant, green cotyledons almost immediately after sprouting. Even the average to poor seed will have better leaves than this at day three. This is a bad seed.

Looking closer there is a tiny bit of green starting on the inside of those stiff, yellow leaves.

 

[SwankyDank]

Here is what was underneath. Plants are amazing, especially powerful growers like cannabis. With little photosynthetic support from the seed leaves this plant was still able to get true leaves started using the food stored in those deformed leaves. Even the bad seed can fulfill it's potential.

 

[Thefarmer12]

Mandala is a respected breeder. Could have been a bad batch but doubtful.

Also your soil looks drenched. Pre soak soil lightly and don't touch it til it's growing. I water my seedling lightly once and they aren't watered again for a very long while.

 

[SwankyDank]

Here are the other two that needed help getting started. This are at eleven days from planting. Notice that neither has it's seed leaves. They were yellow and stiff and fell off within a day.

 

[farmasensist]

I've heard good things about mandala but had bad luck with them. My chill om sprouted and instantly died, my two hashberries were male and my kalishakra seeds were stolen. It looks like you're off to a better start than I was. Good luck with them.