DUET 2400 (LED FIXTURE) - UP TO 2400 WATTS (Flip Chip Opto)

superbak3d

Well-Known Member
Did you happen to look closely at the graph. Can you see purple? This graph, provided by you, intrudes heavily into the greens, your own graph.

We hate blurple
Wow.

The blurple you refer to is from using the combination of 630nm red diodes and 430nm blue diodes. Those 2 colors = blurple.

The 600-680 is the typical 2700k bulb, whether it be led based, hps, cfl, doesn't matter. These color bulbs put out a warm deep orange color.

the 400-480 is where majority of 6500K bulbs are. MH, floros, cfls, blue leds. They put out a bright white/blue color.

If you don't know what carotenoids are, it basically controls the color and odor of your plant (in very simple terms).
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I do like terpines. Why are you speaking of bright blue white light as it appears to your human eyes. Read your own earlier posts. There are huge differences between light of similar k rating from different sources. The spectrums for all the cobs are easily available. Compare a 4000k Cree to a metal halide and see the instrument differences. Modern white LEDs from 3000k to 5000k are "full spectrum" and of course lower k ratings flower real well with all the red needed. Throw 2700k in there too.

Done with this for now.

Blurple has left the building
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Well ,seems to me some folks ,have trouble " digesting " / grasping some stuff ... .....

1) McCree 1972. Relative quantum Efficiency .



"Blue broad band 400-499 nm " : Highest RQE of the band is at 424 nm - 434 nm ,
with a value of 0.76 ( 450 nm has RQE of 0.75 )

"Green band 500-550 nm " : Highest RQE of the band is at 550 nm (can't get any greener than that ! ) ,
with a value of 0.87


"Yellow-Amber band 551-600 nm " : Highest RQE of the band is at 596-600 nm ,
with a value of 1

"Red broadband 601-700 nm " : Highest RQE of the band is at 601-627 nm ,
with a value of 1 ( 640 nm RQE= 0,96 , 660 nm RQE = 0,93 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_yield
http://www.life.illinois.edu/govindjee/photosynBook/Chapter11.pdf

2) Absorptance


Cannabis L. Sativa Absorptance ( 5 July ,Colombian Landstrain )


450 nm ,Blue absorptance : 0.93
550 nm ,Green absorptance :0.75
600nm ,Amber absorptance :0.86
625 ,Red absorptance :0.89
640 ,Red absorptance :0.9
660 ,Red absorptance : 0.93


http://hydrolab.arsusda.gov/Daughtry/Reprints/Spectral Discrim Cannabis 1998.pdf
https://www.rollitup.org/t/what-kind-of-light-mj-likes-decoded-from-its-reflectance.658111/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/photosynthesis-under-solid-state-light-setting-the-standards.833449/


So ....
- Cannabis plant species need 8-10 photons to fix one molecule of CO2 .

Let us assume this scenario :
6 different monochromatic light sources are used to radiate a Cannabis plant .
1x 450 nm ,1x 550 nm , 1x600 nm ,1x 625 nm ,1x 640 nm & lastly 1x 660 nm ..

Let us assume that all 6 light sources emit the same photon flux.
Say 100 photons per sec .

Let us see how much CO2 is being used ,in each case ...

450 nm : From 100 photons per sec ,the 93% is absorbed ,thus 93 photons .
From those 93 photons ,75% are utilised for CO2 fixation .Thus
93* 0.75 = 69.75 = ~ 70 ,thus 7 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 450 nm .

550 nm : 100 * 0.75 * 0.87= ~ 65 = 6.5 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 550 nm.

600 nm :100 * 0.86 * 1 = 86 = 8.6 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 600 nm.

625 nm :100 * 0.89 * 1 = 89 = 8.9 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 625 nm

640 nm : 100 * 0.9 * 0.96 = ~86 = 8.6 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 640 nm.

660 nm : 100 *0.93 * 0.93 = ~86 = 8.6 molecules/sec of CO2 are fixed ,at 660 nm.

And all that happens at the top layer canopy ....
Now imagine what happens at the lower levels of leaf canopy ....
With available only the 7% of the initial 450 nm & 660 nm quanta ....
......
Saved by the remaining 25% of the initial green quanta .....
" Green window " of vigor and health .....

Green light drives photosynthesis ,almost as good as blue light ,at top layer leaf canopies ...
At lower/ deeper leaves ....Green light-almost "only" - drives photosynthesis .
Way better than blue or red ...


Cheers.
:peace:






 
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stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Wow.
If you don't know what carotenoids are, it basically controls the color and odor of your plant (in very simple terms).
If you don't know what carotenoids are, they basically protect your plant of excess energy =light (in very simple terms).
Photo-quenching pigments ...


(...)Carotenoids serve two key roles in plants and algae: they absorb light energy for use in photosynthesis, and they protect chlorophyll from photodamage (...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotenoid
 

2cent

Well-Known Member
omg howe do you guys keep up with all this its amazing and im saving everything ! very clever ppl xD love it,
but as i see it on the cobs page stats it misses the total middle spectrum, and wrong to cut one out totaly i beleive all needed
but so what.....
put it over a plant OP day by day pics plz
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
I just hope that those guys at the flip Chip Opto ,can grasp things ,more easily ,than some others ...

Currently ,they have made a nice supplemental lighting for a PC LED COB 3000 K or 4000 K main light .
Still , that is far from a dedicated LED COB for growing plants ....

5700 K 70Ra + 620-640 nm peaking broadband phosphor ..
That being the " real deal " .....
( Other LED horticultural lighting manufacturers - like Valoya or Apache Tech - ,
seem that they knew all about it ,pretty long time ago ... )
 

Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
No, light is composed of RGB. When all 3 are present, human eyes perceive that as "white".

Plants don't have eyes.

Saying you "hate blurple" is really you just saying you hate science and biology. The blurple is for the plants, not YOU. Just because your eyes don't enjoy the sight of RB with no G, doesn't take away from the fact that plants are the opposite, and they love it.

Sorry, but green has little to no effect on cannabis plants. This is backed up by decades worth of science.

Get over your blurple hate, it makes you look stupid.
You are way off base green light is a higher photosynthetic driver than either red or blue where there is a RGB (White) light source.

Blurple does have it's place in the leafy veg growing industry, and in fact you can run an alternating Blue/Red photoperiod, which in some cases produces a much greater effect on plant growth than say a mixed Blue/Red (blurple) spectrum.

Not to mention that at the different stages of growth plants have evolved have under a light source that is constantly shifting it's colour temperature throughout said plants growth cycle. Although plants are well versed in photo-adaption each variety will have an optimal spectral requirement. Think custom light recipes for different genus of plants.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
It's cool but I've got a dumb question. How do you evenly distribute 2400 watts of LED coming from a single source without huge losses,how far from the canopy does this beast need to be?
This type of COB (Duet 2400 ) if driven at spec ( 6A ) or more ,
it belongs to greenhouse horticulture and only there ...

It should be hanged at least 4-5 meters ( 12'- 14' ) above leaf canopies...
I bet my right testicle (the "good" one :P ) ,that if a grower hangs that in a grow tent or room ,
it is going to fry not only the plants beneath it ,but even the wall paint and the floor tiles ,too ...

Which reminds me ...
One more note ,for the FCO team ...
Most of growers ,will prefer 24 x 100 W COBs or 10 x 240 W , instead of 1x 2400W ...
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
I just hope that those guys at the flip Chip Opto ,can grasp things ,more easily ,than some others ...

Currently ,they have made a nice supplemental lighting for a PC LED COB 3000 K or 4000 K main light .
Still , that is far from a dedicated LED COB for growing plants ....

5700 K 70Ra + 620-640 nm peaking broadband phosphor ..
That being the " real deal " .....
( Other LED horticultural lighting manufacturers - like Valoya or Apache Tech - ,
seem that they knew all about it ,pretty long time ago ... )
love to supplement my cobs with that red phosphor chip, might work better than just deep red mono as its wider
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
love to supplement my cobs with that red phosphor chip, might work better than just deep red mono as its wider
Most probably ,it will do .
People ,seem to forget ,that aside from the photosynthetic value of 660 nm red ,
it has a great photomorphogenic and a very profound circadian effect too .

Supplying the whole 600-700 nm red band ,
is way better than any combo of monochromatic red leds...
Let alone from just a single type ...

(...)The most staple waveband of light that anchors SSL LED arrays for plant growth is red.
Broad-band red (600-700nm) light has, by far, the highest quantum
efficiency for driving photosynthesis, with a broad peak from about 620 to 660 nm
(11). As well, red has numerous photomorphogenic effects on plant development
mediated by the photoreversible pigment phytochrome.In general, red light
promotes stem elongation, leaf expansion, biomass accumulation, and contributes to
a phytochrome photostationary state (PPS) that can determine flowering, dormancy,
and other important photomorphogenic responses of plants, including seed germination.(...)

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150009399.pdf
 
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Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
This type of COB (Duet 2400 ) if driven at spec ( 6A ) or more ,
it belongs to greenhouse horticulture and only there ...

It should be hanged at least 4-5 meters ( 12'- 14' ) above leaf canopies...
I bet my right testicle (the "good" one :P ) ,that if a grower hangs that in a grow tent or room ,
it is going to fry not only the plants beneath it ,but even the wall paint and the floor tiles ,too ...
.
Couldn't agree more lol!
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
It would be like a photon torpedo in a tent. A phaser on stun more appropriate. But it is dimmable. Lighting a bowl with propane torch maybe. Smaller coming, right?
Super incandescent on the horizon. Big red present there. CRI is what it is is. Yep, I did say that.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
It would be like a photon torpedo in a tent. A phaser on stun more appropriate. But it is dimmable. Lighting a bowl with propane torch maybe. Smaller coming, right?
Super incandescent on the horizon. Big red present there. CRI is what it is is. Yep, I did say that.
I can't really see " Super incandescent " on the horizon ...
What i trust will happen with that new advancement,
is the birth of the "thermophotovoltaic" solar cell ...

http://www.led-professional.com/technology/light-generation/innovation-could-revive-incandescent-lighting-bring-more-efficient-solar-cells

CRI is something that we can not use -with simplicity -in plant growing world ....

For example :
A high CRI HPS ,would have been a HPS with extra blue emission ,
High pressure sodium lamps do not emit that much of blue wls ...

Likewise...
In the world of phosphor conversion ,there are three-hypothetical- ways of producing white light ...

1 ) A blue excitation radiation and a yellow emission phosphor ...
What is missing here : deep red and violet ...Add those( any or both ) and here is the "high CRI " .

violet is added for "crisper" whites (i.e. clothing ) and red is added for "incandescent " effect and
nice looking fresh meat and/or fruits & vegetables.

(...)Décor Series™ Food offers a 1750K CCT off the blackbody curve for the Décor Series™ Meat & Deli array, and 2500K CCT for the Décor Series™ Bread & Bakery array.
Décor Series ™ Specialty has a 5600K cool white color point that delivers clean, white light enhanced with a CRI of 90 for outstanding color rendering.
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/systems/themes/crispwhite.html
http://www.bridgelux.com/products/decor-series
2) A cyan excitation radiation and a red emission phosphor ...
What is missing here : violet , blue & green ...


3)A violet excitation radiation and a green emission phosphor ...
What is missing here : blue,yellow & red ..

(probably the worst way of producing white light ,BTW )
....
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
yep, just thought I'd mention I heard of it. From an esthetic view I never liked the classic incandescent glow so many seem to love. I do enjoy LEDs that don't depend on temps inside that would melt most metals. At least the near future seems to be right here. Used LEDs over 3 yrs and they are now capable of making hps obsolete in small-medium size areas.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
BTW ...I'm not quite sure if this the appropriate thread to post this ,but what the heck ...
I'm gonna do it ...
Maybe it will be a bit of help for the FCO team ....

I've multiplied the McCree curve ( aka "Photosynthesis Action Spectrum ) with the Absorptance curve of Cannabis Sativa
species ....

The result is ... a mixture of absorptance & RQE per nanometer ...:P
A combined curve that shows the overall photosynthetic potential (! ) per nanometer ...

absorptance and rqe.JPG
The highest " photosynthetic potentional " ( PP ) ,at the range of 400-700 nm ,
is located at 625 nm ( PP=0.893 ) .

The lowest points :
1 ) At 530 nm (PP=0.592 )
2 ) At 400 nm (PP=0.590 )
3 ) From 688 nm to 700 nm ( PP= 0.586 to PP= 0.31 ,respectively )

PP >= 0.8 have the photons of the range 582 nm up to 679 nm ( deep yellow to deep red )

Cheers.
:peace:
 
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