when is cold too cold?

Do you think 55-60 is too cold for flower?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 74.4%
  • No

    Votes: 11 25.6%

  • Total voters
    43

Greedy-Green

Active Member
Ive never put anybody down. Simply disagreed with a few posters. And also stated i thought it was bad advice to keep posting that 50 degree lights on temps were good. Then Rex posted some pics with temp gauges to argue otherwise. You see how this goes? Its part of the forum, then down the road different readers can collect different info and come to their own conclusions. I understand your having a hard time dealing with this, its ok friend. It takes some time getting used too.
Talkin bs
Ive never put anybody down. Simply disagreed with a few posters. And also stated i thought it was bad advice to keep posting that 50 degree lights on temps were good. Then Rex posted some pics with temp gauges to argue otherwise. You see how this goes? Its part of the forum, then down the road different readers can collect different info and come to their own conclusions. I understand your having a hard time dealing with this, its ok friend. It takes some time getting used too.
Your talking bs now you we're trying to make me look a liar and look stupid but faild that's got nothing to do with the question at beginning of thread or helping people u just thought u cud make someone look small and yourself big
Lool faild
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Hardening is one thing preparnig a plant for outdoor running 50 - 60 temps is just ridiculous, Its proven fact that for every 10 degree rise in temps the plants metabolic rate increases . with colder temps less nutrient uptake, less growth this is first year horticulture shit
Not admitting anything I haven't already said. A warmer air is a drier air, correct? A colder air is a moister air, correct?

That's why temps seem to make such an impact on you guys. It creates drier air which increases transpiration. All I'm saying is that you can max transpiration in cold to the same level you can in warm with the right humidity, watering, lighting, and circulation conditions. There's no difference in growth between 50 to 80 degrees in MY OPINION and EXPERIENCE.
Well i got to say this it appears, you have very little experience in all aspects of growing you have side stepped the most crucial parts ,
And got everything shit ass Backwards Warmer air is not drier ,,, Warmer air holds water , Cold air is drier

You keep talking about photosynthesis but yet truthfully speaking ,, you do not have a clue how it works
you keep mentioning that temps do not matter,, as long as you got a light source the plants will photosynthesis,,
right ?? but looking at your plants there already showing signs of what Def ,maybe ??? might as well throw PH is moving faster then a locomotive lol
And what on Gods green earth can be causing ????? lol
But here is a Wake up call what part of the plant does this ? ?? Here i'll tell you Chloroplast

A chloroplast is a type of plant cell organelle known as a plastid. Plastids assist in storing and harvesting needed substances for energy production. A chloroplast contains a green pigment called chlorophyll, which absorbs light energy for photosynthesis. Hence, the name chloroplast indicates that these structures are chlorophyll containing plastids.

But WAIT A MIN here your firmly set in your beliefs that 50 - 60 degree shouldn't make a difference Right ?? Well your WRONG
In chill-stressed plants, the gene/protein expression of most of the components of protein import apparatus other than Tic110 and Tic40 were not affected, suggesting the central role of Tic110 and Tic40 in inhibition of protein import at low temperature. Heating of intact chloroplasts at 35°C for 10 min inhibited protein import, implying a low thermal stability of the protein import apparatus. Results demonstrate that in addition to decreased gene and protein expression, down-regulation of photosynthesis in temperature-stressed plants is caused by reduced posttranslational import of plastidic proteins required for the replacement of impaired proteins coded by nuclear genome.

Temperature has a profound effect on plant development (Xin and Browse, 1998; Guy, 1999; Allen and Ort, 2001; Browse and Xin, 2001). Plants exposed to chill stress, or heat stress, have impaired chlorophyll (Chl) biosynthesis due to down-regulation of gene expression and protein abundance of several enzymes involved in tetrapyrrole metabolism (Tewari and Tripathy, 1998, 1999; Mohanty et al., 2006). Impaired Chl biosynthesis and chloroplast development leads to reduced photosynthesis beyond the optimum temperature, resulting in substantial loss of plant productivity. The reduced photosynthesis affected by temperature stress is attributed to decline in PSII, Fv/Fm (variable Chl fluorescence/maximal Chl fluorescence), inhibition of electron transport, perturbation of thylakoid membrane fluidity, and consequent decline in photophosphorylation and CO2 assimilation (Berry and Björkman, 1980; Wise and Ort, 1989;Havaux, 1993; Pastenes and Horton, 1996; Bukhov et al., 2000; Sharkey, 2000; Allen and Ort, 2001;Sharkey et al., 2001; Govindacharya et al., 2004; Salvucci and Crafts-Brandner, 2004; Wise et al., 2004
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Also from Scientific tests it shows the heat stressed plants after 48 hrs @ normal temps photosynthesis reversed back to and growing commenced . But chill stressed there was no recovery this alone tells me that the plant good as dead damage was done with no possible change of repair
So you know what buddy you should forget 50 - 60

Aim for 30 - 40 and have a nice day
 

theslipperbandit

Well-Known Member
Hardening is one thing preparnig a plant for outdoor running 50 - 60 temps is just ridiculous, Its proven fact that for every 10 degree rise in temps the plants metabolic rate increases . with colder temps less nutrient uptake, less growth this is first year horticulture shit


Well i got to say this it appears, you have very little experience in all aspects of growing you have side stepped the most crucial parts ,
And got everything shit ass Backwards Warmer air is not drier ,,, Warmer air holds water , Cold air is drier

You keep talking about photosynthesis but yet truthfully speaking ,, you do not have a clue how it works
you keep mentioning that temps do not matter,, as long as you got a light source the plants will photosynthesis,,
right ?? but looking at your plants there already showing signs of what Def ,maybe ??? might as well throw PH is moving faster then a locomotive lol
And what on Gods green earth can be causing ????? lol
But here is a Wake up call what part of the plant does this ? ?? Here i'll tell you Chloroplast

A chloroplast is a type of plant cell organelle known as a plastid. Plastids assist in storing and harvesting needed substances for energy production. A chloroplast contains a green pigment called chlorophyll, which absorbs light energy for photosynthesis. Hence, the name chloroplast indicates that these structures are chlorophyll containing plastids.

But WAIT A MIN here your firmly set in your beliefs that 50 - 60 degree shouldn't make a difference Right ?? Well your WRONG
In chill-stressed plants, the gene/protein expression of most of the components of protein import apparatus other than Tic110 and Tic40 were not affected, suggesting the central role of Tic110 and Tic40 in inhibition of protein import at low temperature. Heating of intact chloroplasts at 35°C for 10 min inhibited protein import, implying a low thermal stability of the protein import apparatus. Results demonstrate that in addition to decreased gene and protein expression, down-regulation of photosynthesis in temperature-stressed plants is caused by reduced posttranslational import of plastidic proteins required for the replacement of impaired proteins coded by nuclear genome.

Temperature has a profound effect on plant development (Xin and Browse, 1998; Guy, 1999; Allen and Ort, 2001; Browse and Xin, 2001). Plants exposed to chill stress, or heat stress, have impaired chlorophyll (Chl) biosynthesis due to down-regulation of gene expression and protein abundance of several enzymes involved in tetrapyrrole metabolism (Tewari and Tripathy, 1998, 1999; Mohanty et al., 2006). Impaired Chl biosynthesis and chloroplast development leads to reduced photosynthesis beyond the optimum temperature, resulting in substantial loss of plant productivity. The reduced photosynthesis affected by temperature stress is attributed to decline in PSII, Fv/Fm (variable Chl fluorescence/maximal Chl fluorescence), inhibition of electron transport, perturbation of thylakoid membrane fluidity, and consequent decline in photophosphorylation and CO2 assimilation (Berry and Björkman, 1980; Wise and Ort, 1989;Havaux, 1993; Pastenes and Horton, 1996; Bukhov et al., 2000; Sharkey, 2000; Allen and Ort, 2001;Sharkey et al., 2001; Govindacharya et al., 2004; Salvucci and Crafts-Brandner, 2004; Wise et al., 2004
He's right man..If i had to nit pick it's" you're WRONG"lol
 

Greedy-Green

Active Member
Tbh if it works for Rex then you shouldn't be criticising him, you should be askin how he makes it work incase your ever in the situation were u have no choice but to grow in cold conditions, and if u don't believe him then do as he offered and follow his newest journal, if he fails then u can take the piss on his thread but I think we should now be focused on helping the origion post can we not agree on this?
Peace guys, growing is meant to be therapeutic haha or so they say
Happy Farming
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
He's right man..If i had to nit pick it's" you're WRONG"lol
Relative humidity, a term often used, is a measure of the actual amount of moisture in the air compared to the total amount of moisture that the air can hold. Warm air can hold more water than cool air. But if the air (warm or cool) is holding half as much moisture as it can hold when saturated, the relative humidity is 50 percent.

Winds along the west coast quite often blow west to east which brings cool air from the cool water onshore. On the other hand, southerly winds often prevail along the eastern seaboard and these winds act to bring the warm air from the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean northward into the area. Because warm air can hold more moisture than cool air, it feels more humid and the dewpoint temperatures are frequently higher along the eastern seaboard than they are along the west coast in the summer months.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
When someone says "there is no difference in growth between 50 and 80 degrees" (and then said 33 to 80 degrees ), it definitely seems that they are trying to say that cold temps are optimal. But if not, then I'm arguing for no reason. Of course I know that a plant will survive in cooler temps, although 33 I think may be pushing it.
I've had plants survive at 32 outdoors but not for long lol. They were also climatized over a period of years, the bud rot flourished though lol.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Day 42

Temperatures
High: low 60's
Low: 50's

View attachment 3587482


Same strain Day 45
Temperature
High: upper 70's
Low: lower 70's

View attachment 3587483

I know noobs w/ some seedlings are always going to find a way to be right but for what it's worth and against my better judgement, in my experience, low temperatures, particularly during early-mid flower, significantly retard flower development and maturity.

On a lighter note -- @Greedy-Green -- you've got some nice hand writing there bud.

AND THERE IT FUCKING IS!

I didn't say 55 couldn't be done......I'm saying it's STUPID!

And I like Mongo's point of "Shut up on this cold temp shit before newbies misunderstand and start flooding us with "Why is my yield shitty"" !!!!
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Hardening is one thing preparnig a plant for outdoor running 50 - 60 temps is just ridiculous, Its proven fact that for every 10 degree rise in temps the plants metabolic rate increases . with colder temps less nutrient uptake, less growth this is first year horticulture shit


Well i got to say this it appears, you have very little experience in all aspects of growing you have side stepped the most crucial parts ,
And got everything shit ass Backwards Warmer air is not drier ,,, Warmer air holds water , Cold air is drier

You keep talking about photosynthesis but yet truthfully speaking ,, you do not have a clue how it works
you keep mentioning that temps do not matter,, as long as you got a light source the plants will photosynthesis,,
right ?? but looking at your plants there already showing signs of what Def ,maybe ??? might as well throw PH is moving faster then a locomotive lol
And what on Gods green earth can be causing ????? lol
But here is a Wake up call what part of the plant does this ? ?? Here i'll tell you Chloroplast

A chloroplast is a type of plant cell organelle known as a plastid. Plastids assist in storing and harvesting needed substances for energy production. A chloroplast contains a green pigment called chlorophyll, which absorbs light energy for photosynthesis. Hence, the name chloroplast indicates that these structures are chlorophyll containing plastids.

But WAIT A MIN here your firmly set in your beliefs that 50 - 60 degree shouldn't make a difference Right ?? Well your WRONG
In chill-stressed plants, the gene/protein expression of most of the components of protein import apparatus other than Tic110 and Tic40 were not affected, suggesting the central role of Tic110 and Tic40 in inhibition of protein import at low temperature. Heating of intact chloroplasts at 35°C for 10 min inhibited protein import, implying a low thermal stability of the protein import apparatus. Results demonstrate that in addition to decreased gene and protein expression, down-regulation of photosynthesis in temperature-stressed plants is caused by reduced posttranslational import of plastidic proteins required for the replacement of impaired proteins coded by nuclear genome.

Temperature has a profound effect on plant development (Xin and Browse, 1998; Guy, 1999; Allen and Ort, 2001; Browse and Xin, 2001). Plants exposed to chill stress, or heat stress, have impaired chlorophyll (Chl) biosynthesis due to down-regulation of gene expression and protein abundance of several enzymes involved in tetrapyrrole metabolism (Tewari and Tripathy, 1998, 1999; Mohanty et al., 2006). Impaired Chl biosynthesis and chloroplast development leads to reduced photosynthesis beyond the optimum temperature, resulting in substantial loss of plant productivity. The reduced photosynthesis affected by temperature stress is attributed to decline in PSII, Fv/Fm (variable Chl fluorescence/maximal Chl fluorescence), inhibition of electron transport, perturbation of thylakoid membrane fluidity, and consequent decline in photophosphorylation and CO2 assimilation (Berry and Björkman, 1980; Wise and Ort, 1989;Havaux, 1993; Pastenes and Horton, 1996; Bukhov et al., 2000; Sharkey, 2000; Allen and Ort, 2001;Sharkey et al., 2001; Govindacharya et al., 2004; Salvucci and Crafts-Brandner, 2004; Wise et al., 2004
WE HAVE A WINNA! Give that man a CIGAR!

I was just about to post almost exactly the same thing!

EXACTLY THE REAL POINT HERE!
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Like has just been said, at higher temps the air can hold a lot more moisture then it can at colder temps, my grow rooms cold due to we're I live and we're it's situated in my house so I keep humidity as high as 70% because in theory In warmer tent with the same amount of humidity (moisture in the air) the relative humidity would be less low because the air can hold more, so I compensate a little I guess
Does this make sense?
Any one care to give a more scientific explaination? Or tell em if I'm wrong ? I havnt looked into cold growing as much as Rex and others I only do it because I have no other choice and I would advice the same to anyone else :)
Does not compute. 70% RH at colder temps is an absolutely ideal mold/mildew environment. Sounds like a great place to grow magic mushrooms though.

You don't need/want a specific amount of water in your air. You want a small amount so the plant doesn't dry up crazy fast, but plenty low that it can easily discard water by transpiration 20-40 RH is where you want to be regardless of temp for flower.

Also, more transpiration does not mean fast growth. Run DWC once and feed 500 PPM nutes vs 1200 PPM nutes and tell me which one grows faster and which one transpires more. 500 PPM bucket would be dry in half the time of the 1200 PPM bucket, aka it will transpire at twice the rate of the 1200 PPM bucket, but the 1200 PPM will grow 20-30% faster due to better nutrient access and not having to get rid of all the excess water.

Cold temps during day slows metabolism in plants. Grow outdoor for a couple of years and it becomes quite obvious. It also jives with simple physics (hotter = molecules move faster, colder = molecules move slower) and basic botany.
 

Connoisseurus Rex

Well-Known Member
Why do you run higher "relative humidity" in the colder room? What effect does that have? Just trying really hard to grasp this. At least I'm trying lol.
Oh and yup ^^^^^ good explanation of RH.
A warmer air is a drier air because it is capable of holding more humidity. A colder air is a moister air because it takes less moisture to create a more humid environment.

That being said, I run a 70% humidity at the seedling stage because the plants will transpire less volume as they are smaller. Max volume for the plant, less volume for the room.

As they grow and the plants become bigger, they transpire more by volume. That's when I drop the room humidity down to around 40-50%. The RH of the room will remain at 70% because of transpiration. The plants alone are producing 10-20% (sometimes up to 30% depending on how many plants such as perpetual growing).

So if I took all the plants out of the room, humidity would drop by up to 30%. I will demonstrate this when they get bigger.

That means I am pushing those plants to max transpiration rates which increases all other production (photosynthesis and respiration).

Imagine it's 30 out and you are standing still. It's cold, right? Now imagine you're running a marathon in the same temp. You're going to sweat, right? Now how in the hell can you sweat and be warm in that cold of temps?

Plants are the same way. Just because they don't physically move, does not mean they are not working. They are running that marathon which increases their metabolism and all other plant functions.

Humidity is not the only factor alone. It requires a steady breeze to remove the boundary layer under the leaves to increase transpiration. It also requires light. Just because the room temp is 33 or 40 or 55, the canopy only, is warmed up from the lighting. My canopy is around 70-75 degrees in a 50-55 degree environment. That keeps the air dense and rich with oxygen and CO2, and the stomata wide open whenever the lights are on... Which allows them to transpire at max rate, increase photosynthesis to max, and increase respiration to max.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
A warmer air is a drier air because it is capable of holding more humidity. A colder air is a moister air because it takes less moisture to create a more humid environment.

That being said, I run a 70% humidity at the seedling stage because the plants will transpire less volume as they are smaller. Max volume for the plant, less volume for the room.

As they grow and the plants become bigger, they transpire more by volume. That's when I drop the room humidity down to around 40-50%. The RH of the room will remain at 70% because of transpiration. The plants alone are producing 10-20% (sometimes up to 30% depending on how many plants such as perpetual growing).

So if I took all the plants out of the room, humidity would drop by up to 30%. I will demonstrate this when they get bigger.

That means I am pushing those plants to max transpiration rates which increases all other production (photosynthesis and respiration).

Imagine it's 30 out and you are standing still. It's cold, right? Now imagine you're running a marathon in the same temp. You're going to sweat, right? Now how in the hell can you sweat and be warm in that cold of temps?

Plants are the same way. Just because they don't physically move, does not mean they are not working. They are running that marathon which increases their metabolism and all other plant functions.

Humidity is not the only factor alone. It requires a steady breeze to remove the boundary layer under the leaves to increase transpiration. It also requires light. Just because the room temp is 33 or 40 or 55, the canopy only, is warmed up from the lighting. My canopy is around 70-75 degrees in a 50-55 degree environment. That keeps the air dense and rich with oxygen and CO2, and the stomata wide open whenever the lights are on... Which allows them to transpire at max rate, increase photosynthesis to max, and increase respiration to max.
Good read, but you never told us your canopy is 75 degrees.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Like has just been said, at higher temps the air can hold a lot more moisture then it can at colder temps, my grow rooms cold due to we're I live and we're it's situated in my house so I keep humidity as high as 70% because in theory In warmer tent with the same amount of humidity (moisture in the air) the relative humidity would be less low because the air can hold more, so I compensate a little I guess
Does this make sense?
Any one care to give a more scientific explaination? Or tell em if I'm wrong ? I havnt looked into cold growing as much as Rex and others I only do it because I have no other choice and I would advice the same to anyone else :)
There is a scale that the VPD "vapor pressure deficit" covers on the sweet spot for the relationship between the temp and RH.
Why bother trying to figure it (unless you took Bot or Hort - then you know) out when you can just refer to a chart..

Here you go kiddies - your own VPD chart! Please cut and paste or print it out for your notes and journals!



As you can actually SEE here. REX's 55F and 70RH puts him in "I'm stupid land"
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
There is a scale that the VPD "vapor pressure deficit" covers on the sweet spot for the relationship between the temp and RH.
Why bother trying to figure it (unless you took Bot or Hort - then you know) out when you can just refer to a chart..

Here you go kiddies - your own VPD chart! Please cut and paste or print it out for your notes and journals!



As you can actually SEE here. REX's 55F and 70RH puts him in "I'm stupid land"
That sounds like a pretty nice place. How is the weed in stupid land?
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
A warmer air is a drier air because it is capable of holding more humidity. A colder air is a moister air because it takes less moisture to create a more humid environment.
Crock of Shit!

Air isn't wetter or dryer because of the temp. It just has a smaller capacity.
 

Connoisseurus Rex

Well-Known Member
There is a scale that the VPD "vapor pressure deficit" covers on the sweet spot for the relationship between the temp and RH.
Why bother trying to figure it (unless you took Bot or Hort - then you know) out when you can just refer to a chart..

Here you go kiddies - your own VPD chart! Please cut and paste or print it out for your notes and journals!



As you can actually SEE here. REX's 55F and 70RH puts him in "I'm stupid land"
Yet you discredit the formula for photosynthesis that doesn't require temp? But I'm supposed to accept this chart?

Being picky on which info you want to be relevant is a bitch move of desperation.
 
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