Water in Flint and other general problems in our political environ

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
When government is run by people that believe government is the problem, they seem to create more of them. This is a good example. We've seen this play out a lot over the past 15 years. Republicans appoint people they like and trust, not necessarily people qualified to do the job. Remember Bush saying that Brownie is doing a fine job when both were totally fucking up the Katrina disaster?

I pulled the following from the Wikipedia article on the Flint water crisis. I added bold text to highlight how ineptitude and bias from the Republican administration kept everybody in the dark regarding the result of poor decision making. It was all about reducing cost and not running government.

While the local outcry about Flint water quality was growing in early 2015, Flint water officials filed papers with state regulators purporting to show that "tests at Flint's water treatment plant had detected no lead and testing in homes had registered lead at acceptable levels."[36] The documents falsely claim that the city had tested tap water from homes with lead service lines, and therefore the highest lead-poisoning risks; in reality; the city does not know the locations of lead service lines, which city officials acknowledged in November 2015 after the Flint Journal/MLivepublished an article revealing the practice after obtaining documents through the Michigan Freedom of Information Act.[37] The Journal/MLive reported that the city had "disregarded federal rules requiring it to seek out homes with lead plumbing for testing, potentially leading the city and state to underestimate for months the extent of toxic lead leaching into Flint's tap water.

This is not a new story. When people running the system focus on cost above all else, they put up blinders to avoid information about the real cost of their decisions. They will fire or demote people that provide information counter to their own bias. And so, they get the information they want.

The Republican Party is the party of purposeful ignorance. It is corrupt because appointed party hacks making the decisions deliberately filter their information to justify their actions. It is venal because its leaders conveniently and falsely claim nobody could have known their cost cutting measures would have caused this. Because, you know, government is the problem, not the solution. At least when they run the government this might be true. As @Jimdamick pointed out, there is "no accountability or even remorse" on the part of the leadership. They think they are "doing a fine job".
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Extremely well put. These people need to see the inside of jail cells.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Extremely well put. These people need to see the inside of jail cells.
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I admit that I hadn't read much about this until today. But reading about it got my blood up better than cup of coffee. My god, what a fuck up.

And that bureaucrat, Wyant, saying: "The water testing steps followed would have been correct for a city less than 50,000 people, but not for a city of nearly 100,000. ". He didn't get it, even when the crisis came to a head. He was in charge of the public safety for drinking water and he was defending his actions because he mistakenly followed protocol for a smaller community. Because, its too expensive for his department to provide testing to the necessary level to ensure safe water for everybody. His mistake, in his mind, was that he misapplied his cost savings to Flint. It was all about cost savings.

Jail for him and his governor. Once the term is up, transfer to an asylum for the criminally insane. Put them on lead drinking water rations.

Dr. Who said:
That is actually rampant in MI! The republican majority has removed the one vote for partyline on ballots.
They still ask for picture ID at the polls - even though it's against the constitution! I refuse and go through the rabbit hole of requirements, designed to intimidate voters to not vote. They feel it discourages those "un-wanted" poor voters more likely to vote against them from actually voting......They have gerrymandered the districts to slide their way and are working on Detroit by other means to become more republican also. We have what is listed in Federal files as one of the most corrupt states in the US.

Sadly many people are so fed up, they don't feel that voting will help change it......I feel it's the flock of sheep principle...Herd up into a ball when danger appears. Those of us in the middle don't see it or worry about it. "Something" will happen and it will go away so we can ignore the rest of reality by being spoon fed lies by the media. Most of whom have their own agenda!

Where was the alarm when GM said it was disconnecting from the Flint water due to it's quality for commercial purpose's .
You've GOT to know you have a problem when a major corporation dumps your local water because it cost them too much to clean for manufacturing use! The U of M was studying the water on a whim - not a request. A prof told a another at W.V. and HE then got interested and got samples and it really started to look like it might take off, FINALLY! Nope. MONTHS later and under the eye of the press as news and public pressure by voice and legal consults (Has been said that the state began to get concerned when Brunch Law again contacted Brockovich (Marlow Brunch [Brunch Law] won a groundwater contamination MAJOR suit in Fennville (MI) against Birdseye corp. with support of E. Brockovich) to aid in research into possible upcoming litigation in conjuction to requests for help from Flint residents. The state gov. took alarm to certain freedom of information requests and became more attentive to Flints needs (I have this on very direct info) .

This whole damn thing is simply amazing to me! How as a Gov. can you pay more attention to a possible presidential run then be concerned for your own people? Oh, yeah, Flint is mostly minority and votes democrat. They don't count and a few less is better for the "Nerds" party! We all thought (those who voted for him) that Snyder would be great and bring change.....EGGS on OUR face!

I'm not even going to bring up how the state government has gutted the Medical M laws.....Now their going to cut us all out and let big business take over....."The people be damned" should be our states new motto!
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Kudos to @Dr. Who for this post. Very informative.
 
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heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Here's a general problem: CYBORGS
What are we going to do with them all?
Will they kill us 'analog' members of the species?

 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Oh god here we go....drum roll......the libtard and conservative dealy. This ....yawn....right - left bullshit has so much to do with my best friends niece getting lead poisoning.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
How do you deal with REAL SHIT.....i mean real in your face reality shit with your brain working overtime on divisive politics that in the end is a snake eating its tail?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Oh god here we go....drum roll......the libtard and conservative dealy. This ....yawn....right - left bullshit has so much to do with my best friends niece getting lead poisoning.
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You are correct sir. After the fact, I'm sorry, very sorry to the point of anger, that your best friend's niece was poisoned. It is unseemly to devolve into right-left bullshit.

This crisis wasn't inevitable. Or unpredictable. The administration fucked up. It doesn't matter if it was a democratic or republican administration. There were reports warning of this before Flint switched its water supply source.

The real crime occurred after scientifically valid evidence showed kids were being poisoned and the cause was identified as lead plumbing corrosion due to the change in water supply. Then, the administration mocked and shoveled shit onto those that presented the evidence that there was a problem. It is here there was a departure from reality, based upon ideology. Flint citizens drank lead contaminated water for almost 1 1/2 years because the administration did not accept science. You tell me which political group -- conservative or liberal, is most likely to reject science over belief. This should be pointed out. I'm sorry that it sounds like left-right bullshit but is not bullshit. It is necessary to point out that an administration with an anti-science bent puts people at risk.

The conservative harpies will plague us nonetheless.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
They have an all but unconstitutional stranglehold on the legislative and judiciary branches of the state. That doesn't seem like a losing position to me.
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And there have been some really unsavory changes in the polling process. Still, you can fool most of the people some of the time but not all the time. We'll see how this affects the elections on March 8 and in the fall.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
One of the houses they supposedly tested and said it was the lead pipes in the house causing elevated lead levels in the water had all PVC piping for water. It was impossible. On the local news last night.
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exactly. hence the statement from Wyant, head of Michigan DEQ, saying: "The water testing steps followed would have been correct for a city less than 50,000 people, but not for a city of nearly 100,000. " What he is referring to is they botched sampling from houses in Flint -- as that news report outlined. They claimed to have sampled houses with lead pipes and found the water to be free of lead. They lied. They did not know which houses had lead pipes at the time. Since then, a file containing a set of index cards with this information was dug up. Its now being entered into a database. 18 months too late.

What really chaps me is that this guy seems to think its OK for smaller cities to be under-tested and is only copping to the mistake of testing Flint using the wrong protocol. Even after all the damage was done in Flint, he is defending unsound test methods for small cities. What a piece of work. What I'd want to hear is the guy saying that steps are underway to ensure everybody in municipal water districts receive safe drinking water. This problem is not over.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
They have an all but unconstitutional stranglehold on the legislative and judiciary branches of the state. That doesn't seem like a losing position to me.
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THIS is our second biggest problem behind the water crisis!
I'll bet out Att. Gen. Schuette is looking to this as a launching pad for furthering his political career! That is a BAD thing!
I have in my close and extended patient "family", 2 people who went to High School with him on the Flint side of the state.
They (not in each others presence either) say that he is one of the most narcissistic, egotistical idiots they ever saw!
He was the leader of the "anti MM" people and we still won with 63 % of the vote on that.
He then ran for the A.G. spot and I went blue in the face telling people to NOT vote for him or it'll be big trouble for MM here.
You should hear all the "Wow were you right and I wish I wouldn't have voted for him" replies I got when he took office and instantly began a war on MM. Shit, I lost 2 of 4 store fronts in 4 counties....I would have none if it wasn't for the local support of city and county officials in the remaining 2.....

Now we have cronies of Schuette running the committee's that are about to screw us again. They did all sorts of underhanded things to keep the "pro" side from testifying on a truely BOGUS bill that passed the house. It proposes a closed grow of 500 - 1000 - 1500 plants only. 10K to even apply for the 500 and they can only grow. The harvest MUST be shipped by armored car to a "processing" facility. If any type of concentrate is to be made (again, IF that is made legal again in other bills) it again must travel to a complete other facility by armored car and of course by armored car to any "dispensary" for distribution to card holders.....There is to be a "tax" at every level, including a MINIMUM of 8% on the end user along WITH the normal sales tax!

Needless to say patients have been up in arms and even a decorated war hero was THROWN out of the hearings for calling the chairman an "idiot, Moron" and "a foolish man filled with misinformed hate". I was there for that and was shocked at the response
by the chairman..."Your all lucky we have even kept this lie of a law! Your all just lying dope heads looking for a way to get your selfish HIGH and not go to jail, where you all BELONG!" There were more then a few folks there to testify or even the press to report on it.....Did that line make the 6:00 o'clock? OH HELL NO! Only the Vet's rant at the chairman for intending to tax those who for the most part can't afford a 14% tax on their meds!

Like I said before.
The new state motto: "People don't matter" subtext "Or the laws you voted in"
Maybe "Our politicians know whats better then YOU"
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Back to that again?
You might be interesting if you actually contributed something around here.
What ever - welcome to the *ignore* list.
Feel free to add me to yours!
 
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Blunted 4 lyfe

Blunted 4 lyfe

Well-Known Member
mc130p said:
yep, when everything comes down to profit, things don't go well for long. War for profit, health care for profit, education for profit, government functions for profit through contractors.... paying taxes to build a bridge only to have your county sell it to a company so they can profit off the people's infrastructure..... lot's of problems in this country and they ultimately boil down to greed for money, imho.
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Totally agreed!!

B4L
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
THIS is our second biggest problem behind the water crisis!
I'll bet out Att. Gen. Schuette is looking to this as a launching pad for furthering his political career! That is a BAD thing!
I have in my close and extended patient "family", 2 people who went to High School with him on the Flint side of the state.
They (not in each others presence either) say that he is one of the most narcissistic, egotistical idiots they ever saw!
He was the leader of the "anti MM" people and we still won with 63 % of the vote on that.
He then ran for the A.G. spot and I went blue in the face telling people to NOT vote for him or it'll be big trouble for MM here.
You should hear all the "Wow were you right and I wish I wouldn't have voted for him" replies I got when he took office and instantly began a war on MM. Shit, I lost 2 of 4 store fronts in 4 counties....I would have none if it wasn't for the local support of city and county officials in the remaining 2.....

Now we have cronies of Schuette running the committee's that are about to screw us again. They did all sorts of underhanded things to keep the "pro" side from testifying on a truely BOGUS bill that passed the house. It proposes a closed grow of 500 - 1000 - 1500 plants only. 10K to even apply for the 500 and they can only grow. The harvest MUST be shipped by armored car to a "processing" facility. If any type of concentrate is to be made (again, IF that is made legal again in other bills) it again must travel to a complete other facility by armored car and of course by armored car to any "dispensary" for distribution to card holders.....There is to be a "tax" at every level, including a MINIMUM of 8% on the end user along WITH the normal sales tax!

Needless to say patients have been up in arms and even a decorated war hero was THROWN out of the hearings for calling the chairman an "idiot, Moron" and "a foolish man filled with misinformed hate". I was there for that and was shocked at the response
by the chairman..."Your all lucky we have even kept this lie of a law! Your all just lying dope heads looking for a way to get your selfish HIGH and not go to jail, where you all BELONG!" There were more then a few folks there to testify or even the press to report on it.....Did that line make the 6:00 o'clock? OH HELL NO! Only the Vet's rant at the chairman for intending to tax those who for the most part can't afford a 14% tax on their meds!

Like I said before.
The new state motto: "People don't matter" subtext "Or the laws you voted in"
Maybe "Our politicians know whats better then YOU"
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I think starting a recall campaign against the governor and AG would get traction- and their attention. Use the current situation in Flint as the wedge issue, then show this and other examples of how the right wing legislature has taken upon itself to ignore the will of the People.
 
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