Top bin COB comparison

[AquariusPanta]

Yea Well That's All fine And Dandy. Plus We know Todays Youth Like warm And Fuzzy Things. However Ask Your Old Lady if She Prefers 4 Inches of Intensity or 12 Inches Of Penetration And I Mean Hard Penetration

You must be Frank Zappa's bottom bitch..

 

[wietefras]

(...) that inverse square law doesn't really apply in grow tents/rooms with reflective walls(...)

Of course it applies ! But it's way complex -even for advanced software/hardware - to exacty calculate

Which is why I added the word "really". The point is that it's not the "Hang your light as close to the plants because if you don't you will lose light by the inverse square law" that people think.

Like you said, in a reflective space, light doesn't just expand quadraticly, it reflects back on the walls. When you move the light sensor down from the lamp in a reflective tent, the light density decreases more linearly because of the increasing wall losses.

(...) that PPF (minus losses) divided by surface area determines average light density (plus most of the concept of penetration(...)

Well...At what height ? Excuse me ,I meant distance from light source ?
Space has 3 dimensions (that we know of ,at least ..) Surface is the two of them ...

Distance doesn't matter. At any horizontal plane in the room you can measure an average PPFD which is determined by that formula.

Anyway, never mind you're not disagreeing just adding a lot of little details.

 

[wietefras]

It would be best if we used the term intensity instead of penetration when we are referring to the amount of light provided by a given light source. Penetration, like @PSUAGRO wisely said, is a "fuzzy term" which is casually misinterpreted by those who have not partaken in RIU's Penetration 101 class.

That's exactly what people tend to mean by "penetration' even if they don't realize.

Although the problem is that below the canopy the penetration (and light intensity) is also aided by the ability of the light to move between the leaves. Which happens more with by shallower light angles and diffuse light.

"Green light" actually helps as well since it doesn't all get absorbed at the first hit on a leaf.

 

[Castaman]

Excuse me for my thread choice, but i lost that thread where cob's from Jerry KB were discussed. I have got some info showing a huge amount of low quality Cree CX* chips were dropped at at Chinese market (Ali, KB). There wasn't such info before, but now, with growing popularity of those cobs, people started to complain for their quality. Has anybody checked them on spectrometer, luxmeter, voltage drop, etc? Therefore, mouser, arrow, digikey and others, seems to have an original high quality chips unlike received from China sellers. MB they have a lot of low quality batch or something, offering as a higher bin?

 

[cdgmoney250]

A little old but this is kinda relative...

https://www.rollitup.org/t/kingbrite-rocks.866244/page-20

 

[alesh]

Excuse me for my thread choice, but i lost that thread where cob's from Jerry KB were discussed. I have got some info showing a huge amount of low quality Cree CX* chips were dropped at at Chinese market (Ali, KB). There wasn't such info before, but now, with growing popularity of those cobs, people started to complain for their quality. Has anybody checked them on spectrometer, luxmeter, voltage drop, etc? Therefore, mouser, arrow, digikey and others, seems to have an original high quality chips unlike received from China sellers. MB they have a lot of low quality batch or something, offering as a higher bin?

What is the source of such info?

 

[Castaman]

From largest forum of growers in my country - olkpeace.org, there is a man who has done a voltage drop research for a decent amount of cob's.
here's some photo:
The Vdrop of cobs from USA is about 0.01-0.05v, Chinese 0.3-0.5. Looks the same.

 

[stardustsailor]

What is the source of such info?

I had almost the same info ,about a year ago by a friend who works in Shenzhen city.
Was something about " Faulty Cree COB lot that should have been destroyed " due to " LES silicone material issues" (not Vf aka chip issues ) , but they ended up in " asian grey market " *.But he did not mention the actual type of COBS


* (...)A grey market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are legal but unintended by the original manufacturer. The most common type of grey market is the sale, by individuals or small companies not authorised by the manufacturer, of imported goods which would otherwise be either more expensive or unavailable in the country to which they are being imported.(..)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market


I'll try to find the mail he send me back then ....

Grey market is not always bad ....
I got my speaker cables ,in asian grey market for about $100 (shipping included )
Some faults with the printing of markings on the cable !!!!

A roll of 1000 meters was to be destroyed ,by the factory ...
Well ...Six meters ( 18 feet ) of the roll are cited at my Hi-Fi system ,right now ....

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-247-audioquest-gibraltar-speaker-cables-pr.aspx

Saved me about $1500 !!!



Cheers.

 

[komjaunimas]

I had almost the same info ,about a year ago by a friend who works in Shenzhen city.
Was something about " Faulty Cree COB lot that should have been destroyed " due to " LES silicone material issues" (not Vf aka chip issues ) , but they ended up in " asian grey market " *.But he did not mention the actual type of COBS


* (...)A grey market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are legal but unintended by the original manufacturer. The most common type of grey market is the sale, by individuals or small companies not authorised by the manufacturer, of imported goods which would otherwise be either more expensive or unavailable in the country to which they are being imported.(..)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market


I'll try to find the mail he send me back then ....

Grey market is not always bad ....
I got my speaker cables ,in asian grey market for about $100 (shipping included )
Some faults with the printing of markings on the cable !!!!
View attachment 3594976
A roll of 1000 meters was to be destroyed ,by the factory ...
Well ...Six meters ( 18 feet ) of the roll are cited at my Hi-Fi system ,right now ....

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-247-audioquest-gibraltar-speaker-cables-pr.aspx

Saved me about $1500 !!!



Cheers.

Sorry if im stupid, but i always thought copper wires were copper wires and there is no difference between 10$ and 100$ piece, atleast for guitar cables... you not only saved 1500$ but also your dignity

 

[wietefras]

I agree that usually it doesn't matter, but when you go for longer cables or try to push more data over the cable you really do notice a difference though.

On the other hand it's been a while since I ran into problems like that. It was usually when I wanted to attach my computer to a TV or a projector over a long cable. Sometimes cheap cables would barely work at all and with a more expensive cable I would get the full frame rate and no artifacts. But then nowadays things like that don't need wires anymore.

 

[stardustsailor]

Sorry if im stupid, but i always thought copper wires were copper wires and there is no difference between 10$ and 100$ piece, atleast for guitar cables... you not only saved 1500$ but also your dignity

Nope.
While yes,copper wires are copper wires ,for most of electric/ electronic appliances ,
for the audio world ain't that simple ....
Guitar cables ?
Try out an ordinary $10 cable and then play the same tune with the same amp with a Monster Rock or
Monster Jazz cable ...
If you have good hearing ,the difference is not just big ,but huge ...
Especially when harmonics are strung , string lifts/bends ,etc

Same goes with interconnect and power (speaker ) cables in a high-end or a good Hi-Fi audio system ...


A copper wire with a random diameter ,lots of Oxygen and /or contaminants inside the metallic crystal matrix ,a rough surface ,multistranded and twisted the wrong way ,and many other variables do affect the audio signal ,in
ways you'd probably never imagined .It's not just an electric signal ...It's an audio signal ...
And if ones wants from his system to reproduce the music as close to "live" as possible ,then
audio cabling is very-very crucial ...
I do not like it ,either ..
But that's the way it goes ...
Except ,if we're talking about " rigid ears " ..
Then listening to any difference in played music ,can be difficult to achieve ...

Especially ,in the modern days ,where it dominates the rubbish for a music ,called "mp3" ...

 

[guod]

ok offtopic
your pickup,the lenght of your Cable and the input Impedance of your Amp builds a high cut filter.
shorter cables gives more high tones. way cheaper then this overpriced cables.

and just ready, my little practice Cab
celestion
Frontsize 65 x 40 cm 25 cm deep.
4 / 16 ohm switch.- for tube or solid-stage
Chuma Double Eight.

backplate ican be changed. up to full closed

or as a top on a 2/4 x12" Cab.

yeah, me so modular

there is a loud weekend coming!

 

[stardustsailor]

ok offtopic
your pickup,the lenght of your Cable and the input Impedance of your Amp builds a high cut filter.
shorter cables gives more high tones. way cheaper then this overpriced cables.

and just ready, my little practice Cab
celestion
Frontsize 65 x 40 cm 25 cm deep.
4 / 16 ohm switch.- for tube or solid-stage
Chuma Double Eight.
View attachment 3595159 View attachment 3595160
backplate ican be changed. up to full closed
View attachment 3595189
or as a top on a 2/4 x12" Cab.
View attachment 3595194
yeah, me so modular

there is a loud weekend coming!

Nice thick plywood ...
High quality woofers
Neutrik locking jack socket ...
So "Guodish " ...
A fine job,indeed ...

 

[AquariusPanta]

Excuse me for my thread choice, but i lost that thread where cob's from Jerry KB were discussed. I have got some info showing a huge amount of low quality Cree CX* chips were dropped at at Chinese market (Ali, KB). There wasn't such info before, but now, with growing popularity of those cobs, people started to complain for their quality. Has anybody checked them on spectrometer, luxmeter, voltage drop, etc? Therefore, mouser, arrow, digikey and others, seems to have an original high quality chips unlike received from China sellers. MB they have a lot of low quality batch or something, offering as a higher bin?

I've compared Mouser CXB3590 3500K (CD) with Jerry JB CXB3590 3500K (CD), with PAR results favoring Jerry's CXB3590 slightly more so than the more expensive Mouser CXB3590 (~50$ vs. ~70$). Taking into account minor errors on my part during testing, there's no doubt in my mind that they were both produced as CD quality, as their numbers were very close to one another.

It's comical to see StarDustSailor's follow comment to you about the grey market, as there 's undoubtedly truth in it based on my recent experiences. I can relate and haven't gone in depth with this tid bit of information; around a month ago, I was testing the forward voltage and currents of various CXB3590's 3500K (CD) cobs. While observing the LES of one the CXB3590 cobs, I noticed that one of the strings inside the LES had a diode that decided not to follow the herd and was placed perpendicular to the other diodes ( I vs. - ). Afterwards I quickly examined the other CXB3590 cobs for similar patterns but eventually concluded that it was an anomaly.

@stardustsailor

 

[stardustsailor]

From personal experience , regarding gray /grey market :

Usually all the stuff ,that end up in Asian grey market are GENUINE /original products .
They are manufactured in China ( usually ) ,under the specs and standards of western firms/companies .
Still ...The lower prices of the goods bought in grey market ,are not coming without ...a price ...

Oftenly ,the grey market goods ,are FAULTY and are to be either destroyed or recycled .
Nobody (in the western world ) would pay a high price for electronics or other goods ,which have a minor fault ..

But ...
Asians have " trading " inside their genes ..
They leave nothing to be thrown away and be destroyed ...
Especially ,if they can make a profit out of it ...

So ,instead of destroying /recycling (according to the strict quality check rules of the western firms/companies ),
usually they get ...lost ..somewhere in the way to being recycled / destroyed ...
And they end up in the hands of small vendors or individuals ,that sell them (even at eBay ) at really low prices ...

If you get lucky ,the fault is minor ...(especially in clothing / shoes ) ..
In electronics if the fault is something aesthetic ( printed marks or signs ,color variations ,etc ) it's rather safe
to buy ...

But if the fault is operative ,then you'd better stay away from purchasing the goods ...

Thing is ,that one can not know for sure where the fault is ...

It's a risk .Especially if the price difference is not so large ,from goods offered by an authorised dealer ...

Now ,there's no excuse of blaming a grey dealer ..
They just do ,what they 've to do to make a living or more than that ...
You all 've been warned and alarmed ...


P.S.
Think about it rationally for a moment ...
Use the so called "common sense " ...

How the fuck ,a small ,non-authorised dealer can sell to you a genuine product ,
at better price from the authorised dealer
(<=who BTW orders in large quantities ,thus achieving lower prices / discounts ) ?

Either the " grey dealer " is working somewhere in the manufacture facility ...
Still ,is almost impossible to obtain /steal the goods from the line of production ,as the western companies have their own trusted personel ,inside the facility ,to check and document the quantities / lots manufactured ,every day ,every single piece ...

Or ...
Either there's some kind of an issue with the goods ...
And that's actually what's happening ..
The goods did not pass the QC .

Some say that oftenly ,this is done on purpose ..
( The facility manufactures a faulty lot now and then ,for some ...extra profit ...
.under the table ,of course ...)

Can't beat the asians ,in trading ....
They 've mastered the skills of trading for more than 5000 years ...


They win ,you lose ...
Very rare ,to have a win-win situation ,with 'em ...

 

[AquariusPanta]

P.S.
Think about it rationally for a moment ...
Use the so called "common sense " ...

How the fuck ,a small ,non-authorised dealer can sell to you a genuine product ,
at better price from the authorised dealer
(<=who BTW orders in large quantities ,thus achieving lower prices / discounts ) ?



Some say that oftenly ,this is done on purpose ..
( The facility manufactures a faulty lot now and then ,for some ...extra profit ...
.under the table ,of course ...)

Can't beat the asians ,in trading ....
They 've mastered the skills of trading for more than 5000 years ...


They win ,you lose ...
Very rare ,to have a win-win situation ,with 'em ...

(It's important to point out that there probably wouldn't be a China today if the USA didn't step in during WW2 to dropkick Japan's fascist ass. China may have indeed 'perfected' trading during that time but they hadn't perfected their military standing and because of that, they, as a whole, can be eternally thankful for our country's initiative to aide them when Japan was rapidly ransacking and pillaging their country's inhabitants.)

You bring up a solid point about how backwards it is for a legitimate dealer selling product at a higher price in comparison to a non-authorized dealer but don't forget that retailers (Digikey, Mouser, etc.) are selling products at retail price and are thus charging more for their cut of the risk, as they're stocking more items than just cobs. Additionally, they're (Mouser and Digikey) more known than Jerry Kingbrite and can charge those higher prices because to many, they're the only sources that one can acquire Cree CXB cobs from, which subsequently alters (and undermines) the entire supply and demand aspect of the given commodity; should a CXB3590 top bin COB really cost ~70$ when at least one other company is making similar products that perform nearly just the same at prices below nearly two-thirds of 70$??

What I've recently noticed, and it's possible that's been this way all along, is that Mouser is expanding its pool of CXB cobs, in terms of bin but holds relatively small amounts of each cob/bin, such as x42 CXB3590 3000K (CB), much like Jerry KB. Furthermore, they have offer the option of buying in bulk (x50) at prices similar to Jerry's (x10+) but opt to withhold inventory for those options as their current levels of stock wouldn't allow for it and let's face it, they make more money selling cobs at 70$ than they do x50 at 50$ per cob, which is no different than a common day drug dealer selling grams rather than ounces, because he probably got a deal buying the ounces and must sell by the gram to make up for his time, effort, and risk.

 

[Abiqua]

Perpetuating one of the human kind' worst atrocities is kicking ass? ok.......everything else I agree but that is some indoctrinated bs imho

 

[AquariusPanta]

Referring to the atomic bombs being dropped? I believe you have misread what I wrote, not that dropping bombs on Japan was kick ass but that the USA kicked Japan's ass in WW2, thus prolonging China's future.

Since we are now on the topic of dropping bombs, how do you believe the USA could have handled it's war with Japan differently (such as not dropping the atomic bombs) and still coming out on top?

 

[stardustsailor]

Ain't exactly like that ...
What you see as stocked items (quantities ) for sale in authorised dealers ,usually is
the amount that is left ,after big sales done / deals closed with light manufacturing companies .
(for example ,regarding COBs )

Mouser ,cutter,digi-key ,etc ,for sure ,they do not expect to make a huge profit
by selling small quantities to individuals / amateurs.
Their main profit comes from other big companies that buy their stuff .
(As they can not buy them directly from manufacturers ,like Cree or Bridgelux ...)

What you see as "low stock " is actually the ..left overs ...

Way different " than a common day drug dealer selling grams rather than ounces, because he probably got a deal buying the ounces and must sell by the gram to make up for his time, effort, and risk. "

More like " selling grams rather than ounces ,because they have already sold tons to certain bad-ass dudes and only few grams are left ,for the rest poor cheap-asses ...

that's how it goes ,usually ...

Cheers.

 

[stardustsailor]

Perpetuating one of the human kind' worst atrocities is kicking ass? ok.......everything else I agree but that is some indoctrinated bs imho

R u referring to me ?
Did I say something insulting or wrong ?