Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says

Elwood Diggler

Well-Known Member
So just to ask the question; exactly what the fuck is wrong with strong worker's rights policies, anyway?

Won't higher wages lead to more spending and a larger, stronger economy?

Wouldn't universal health care take care of all Americans affordably and increase productivity?

Wouldn't shifting the burden of taxes up the income scale and back onto corporations help create tax revenue to build a stronger nation, through everything from infrastructure improvements to education?

Wouldn't the end of corporate political influence lead to the end of subsidies, which would lead to lower taxes for individuals?

Unions, a national employment contact that isn't a swift kick in the crotch for the employee, mandatory benefits, sick time, childcare reimbursement.

I think it's time we examined these ideas more carefully, as I think they'd work better than our current kleptocracy.


i don't see how anyone can argue about any of it. it's clear what we've done doesn't work other than for a very few individuals and of course wall st.

bernie will raise taxes but they will result in benefits to us all we don't currently have and have no real way to get. the system needs changing. top down economics will never result in a country worth living in
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
bernie will raise taxes but they will result in benefits to us all we don't currently have and have no real way to get. the system needs changing. top down economics will never result in a country worth living in
It's called a Job.
I bought my house, cars, health insurance with one all before I turned 30 without the help of the government.

Pretty amazing isn't it?
 

Nutes and Nugs

Well-Known Member
Bernie: Asked point blank if race relations would be better under a Sanders administration, he did not hesitate, “Yes.”
What we will do is say instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires,
we are going to create millions of jobs for low income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners."

What jobs? much less millions of them for black kids?
What will the Mexicans do?














'
 

god1

Well-Known Member
It was interesting listening to some of the debate tonight, neither Bernie or Hillary talked in terms of growing the economy as an option. It was really about growing government. Bernie's plan requires a dramatic gdp slope change in order to sustain the crap he's talking about. He's either got a secret plan or he doesn't have a clue. Which means he and Trump are spouting the same shit, but at least Trump doesn't waste a bunch of words to justify his plan, but you know it's going to be "great".

The problem isn't that there aren't good high paying jobs out there, it's more about there isn't qualified bodies to fill them. For example, it would be cool if you could grab a bunch of under educated potheads and fill technical positions paying six figures, but that isn't reality.

Grow the gdp and all this other nonsense drops into the noise for the average joe.

If you're old enough to recall the dot.com days you'd understand. Yeah, it was a bubble --- but it was glorious, and if you were smart you capitalized. The nice thing about that period, is that a lot of money trickled down. Even the gardeners were happy. On the other end, lot's of middle class folks moved into your dreadful 1% tier.

Trump and Bernie draw so much attention because they're focused on the same issue; making people feel better. Albeit, taking different paths.


.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Truly free unregulated markets would make raising pharmaceutical medication 4000% pale in comparison. Or the housing bubble burst that ruined the economy in '08. How can you not see that? I remember when i used to think just like you. When i first started going to the Hash Bash in 87. That ayn rand shit grew on me like a tumor. You need to wake up man.

No offense, but I believe you don't know what a free market is. It is one where an unwanted third party doesn't intervene.
Thus, government interference and the unintended consequences which arise from it don't carry the same weight they do now.

In a truly free market, big pharma would lose its government protected price gouging ability, since other people could offer the same or similar product or service.

When supply is not artificially constrained, prices are more difficult to manipulate and usually drop until they hit an equilibrium point with demand.

You failed to consider the impact of a free market phenomenom, the impact of competition and the exit of unwanted and unneeded artificial constraints imposed by an external third party (government) which in the present protects and enables the monopolization of said market.

So....ummmm, yeah....you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
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Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
In a truly free market, how does one 'Cheat' ??

They fail to honor their consensual agreement. Which then creates the grounds for the aggrieved party to seek restitution or compensation.

Of course in a free market, nobody is forced INTO an agreement and because it's a free market, consumer choices abound.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
No numbnuts, After the short sale you make payments to the bank on the house you sold short.. If its 20k its financed over 10 years.. I've bought n sold a half dozen homes..I've been foreclosed on.. You are talking out of your ass, short sell is when you are in foreclosure and you owe say 175k.. You are upside down and home is worth 150k ..A foreclosure can take 6 months or 18 months when the paperwork is slow because the courthouses are full dockets of them like in 08 or 09... Then a buyer buys your home for say 150k.. You make payments on that 25k almost always... Rarely you can get bank to eat it..I've seen it but the guy was in a wheel chair from a motorcycle wreck n fucked up.


That was for Red BTW-



@ NL5 .. Foreclosure is worse on credit..but not by much.. My credit is fucked cause one foreclosure..I've never owned a credit card in my life.
Hey Corso? Your credit is fucked because you dont have credit. That may seem confusing but it is true. I met a 50 year old woman that did the same thing and had the same story.
If you dont have credit HISTORY your credit is never going to be great. Banks want people to owe them money and pay interest, you dont do those things so they are not INTERESTED in you. Sorry but that is the truth.

Red stopped paying his mortgage. The bank cannot force him to pay it, they cannot levy his wages, they cannot do anything but reposses the property that was collateral for a loan. They go the short sale route because it saves them more money than if they foreclose.

Again, your credit score is dependent upon credit history. If your only activity is a mortgage and you default, yeah you are fucked. I cant remember how long ago I short sold that home but it is within 3 years and my credit score is 700+ I think it is 710 because I just got a 20K unsecured loan from a bank and back in August I bought a new car on credit. The reason my scored didnt take a huge hit is because of all the other activity/history on the account.

Finally, if you had either a short sale or foreclosure within the last 7 years, banks and creditors are looking at them differently due to the markets and how many people got caught up in it all.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Hey Corso? Your credit is fucked because you dont have credit. That may seem confusing but it is true. I met a 50 year old woman that did the same thing and had the same story.
If you dont have credit HISTORY your credit is never going to be great. Banks want people to owe them money and pay interest, you dont do those things so they are not INTERESTED in you. Sorry but that is the truth.

Red stopped paying his mortgage. The bank cannot force him to pay it, they cannot levy his wages, they cannot do anything but reposses the property that was collateral for a loan. They go the short sale route because it saves them more money than if they foreclose.

Again, your credit score is dependent upon credit history. If your only activity is a mortgage and you default, yeah you are fucked. I cant remember how long ago I short sold that home but it is within 3 years and my credit score is 700+ I think it is 710 because I just got a 20K unsecured loan from a bank and back in August I bought a new car on credit. The reason my scored didnt take a huge hit is because of all the other activity/history on the account.

Finally, if you had either a short sale or foreclosure within the last 7 years, banks and creditors are looking at them differently due to the markets and how many people got caught up in it all.
but but but Sanders is going to give every one great credit, along with free college, and raises for everyone. He is going to break up the big banks and make them do right. I'm not sure how he will do this with the congress he will have, but he said it soooo.
He will also raise everyone taxes,but some of us like our taxes being raise apparently.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Bernie: Asked point blank if race relations would be better under a Sanders administration, he did not hesitate, “Yes.”
What we will do is say instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires,
we are going to create millions of jobs for low income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners."

What jobs? much less millions of them for black kids?
What will the Mexicans do?














'
Welcome to my ignore list, you self centered racist.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
but but but Sanders is going to give every one great credit, along with free college, and raises for everyone. He is going to break up the big banks and make them do right. I'm not sure how he will do this with the congress he will have, but he said it soooo.
He will also raise everyone taxes,but some of us like our taxes being raise apparently.
Having the support of the people will make it possible, even inevitable.
 
Median income would soar by more than $22,000. Nearly 26 million jobs would be created. The unemployment rate would fall to 3.8%.

Those are just a few of the things that would happen if Bernie Sanders became president and his ambitious economic program were put into effect, according to an analysis given exclusively to CNNMoney. The first comprehensive look at the impact of all of Sanders' spending and tax proposals on the economy was done by Gerald Friedman, a University of Massachusetts Amherst economics professor.

This more sweeping analysis was not commissioned by the candidate, though Sanders' policy director called it "outstanding work." Friedman has worked with Sanders in the past, but has never received any compensation. The Vermont senator asked Friedman to estimate the cost of Sanders' Medicare-for-all plan -- which came out to $13.8 trillion over 10 years -- and included the analysis when he unveiled his proposal last month.

Friedman, who believes in democratic socialism like the candidate, found that if Sanders became president -- and was able to push his plan through Congress -- median household income would be $82,200 by 2026, far higher than the $59,300 projected by the Congressional Budget Office.

In addition, poverty would plummet to a record low 6%, as opposed to the CBO's forecast of 13.9%. The U.S. economy would grow by 5.3% per year, instead of 2.1%, and the nation's $1.3 trillion deficit would turn into a large surplus by Sanders' second term.

Other economists, however, feel that Friedman's analysis is overly optimistic, saying it would be difficult to achieve that level of economic prosperity. Last week, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget said Sanders' plan to pay for health care would fall short by at least $3 trillion.

Sanders' plan to pour $14.5 trillion into the economy -- including spending on infrastructure and youth employment, increasing Social Security benefits, making college free and expanding health care and family leave -- would juice GDP and productivity. (Friedman reduces the cost of Medicare-for-all to $10.7 trillion because he estimates the government would save $3.1 trillion by eliminating tax breaks for health insurance premiums.)

Also, Sanders would raise the minimum wage, as well as shift income from the rich to the middle and working class through tax hikes on the wealthy and corporations.

"Like the New Deal of the 1930s, Senator Sanders' program is designed to do more than merely increase economic activity," Friedman writes. It will "promote a more just prosperity, broadly-based with a narrowing of economy inequality."

Many presidential hopefuls say their economic programs would boost growth. Donald Trump and Jeb Bush justify their big tax cuts by saying GDP would grow at a 4% rate. But their plans have been panned by experts as overly optimistic.

Friedman, however, argues that Sanders' plan would be more stimulative because it is pouring money into the economy, as opposed to cutting taxes. Several of Sanders' proposals -- such as spending $1 trillion on infrastructure -- will happen in the first few years of his administration.

The thinking goes: This enhanced government spending would increase demand on businesses, who would then hire more workers to meet their needs. The increase in employment will prompt people to buy more, leading other businesses to hire.

"If there is more spending, people will have more to do," Friedman said, noting that the share of the population with jobs could be restored to its 1999 level of more than 64%, up from its current 59.6% rate.

Sanders' policy director, Warren Gunnels, also defended the estimates, noting the candidate is thinking big.
"We haven't had such an ambitious agenda to rebuild the middle class since Presidents Roosevelt, Truman and Johnson," he said.

Still, some experts question whether the effects would be that large.

Stimulating demand can boost a weak economy during a recession, but "it's harder to accept as a long-run growth strategy," said William Gale, the former director of Brookings' Economic Studies Program.

Also, it would be very difficult to achieve and maintain an economic growth rate of 5.3% per year after inflation. That target hasn't been hit consistently since the 1960s, when technology was providing big advancements, the workforce was younger and there was increased demand for American products worldwide as other countries fully recovered from World War II.

"The 5.3% number is a fantasy," said Jim Kessler, senior vice president at Third Way, a centrist think tank.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/index.html
So you believe all of these numbers? I think any and all candidates will state anything to win... friedman hasnt been compensated... (yet)... if you even half think any candidate has the best interest in the people they are serving you are dead wrong... its the bottom dollar for themselves..
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
It doesnt matter....with the democratic part superdelegate bullshit Sanders will never get the nomination. Clinton will get it and she will be the next President. Watch.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Obama had the support of the people, but its still this thing called congress and opposition.
Well then if the people didn't elect a congress and Senate that's ready to work with the president, whose fault is that?

Can't really say the people supported him all that well, can we?

Viewed this way, I'm impressed with how much he got done at all!
 
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pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
Which means he and Trump are spouting the same shit, but at least Trump doesn't waste a bunch of words to justify his plan, but you know it's going to be "great".

.
Just curious, but wouldn't this - in your mind - be a point for Bernie? Sure, you can say "waste a bunch of words to justify his plan," but at the heart of it you're saying all Trump is doing is saying it'll be "great," and that's it. No plan, no talk about how he's going to do it, just that it'll be "great" and no more, no less, whereas Bernie says "It'll be good, and this is why, and this is how we'll do it." Thoughts?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Just curious, but wouldn't this - in your mind - be a point for Bernie? Sure, you can say "waste a bunch of words to justify his plan," but at the heart of it you're saying all Trump is doing is saying it'll be "great," and that's it. No plan, no talk about how he's going to do it, just that it'll be "great" and no more, no less, whereas Bernie says "It'll be good, and this is why, and this is how we'll do it." Thoughts?
In a nutshell, that's why Mr Sanders has my vote.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Did you listen to one minute of the debate? He was very clear.
Im very late to this party lol , still cant contribute much until i find out my status from ICE on monday .

With that being said using rhetoric spewed at a debate is the absolute worst example of how anything is going to work with bernie sanders socialist utopia he has college kids & broke people frothing over , the 1st thing you need to understand is that socialism , just like capitalism , is a business , only with very different business models , socialist business model is far different than any other business model , its closest model is a ponzi scheme , screw the jibberish bernie spews because he isnt telling all the facts , nor are you allowed to see a successfull business model any EU country employs , sweden is near collapse so its best you dont use them as an example .

#1 Socialism is like a ponzi scheme , or to frame it in a more politically correct light socialism is exactly like a pension plan , the benifits being paid out today are from the work , and taxes paid in by others , lets say socialism is on a 1 person collecting for every 10 people paying scale for the sake of arguement , in order for that business model to work it requires a non stop work force ten times larger than the number of people collecting benifits , if any jobs are lost that loss goes direct into the pay out column , if any new " social debts " are created ( mass immigration ) those debts go into the pay out column .

#2 Socialism requires that the employement rate is allways paying in its equal , or above its pay out rate , the slightest loss of jobs creates less money in the " pay in column " , which then has enormous effects at the pay out end , which translates into 2 options , which are charging the fewer workers higher taxes , or paying out drastically reduced benifts to those not working but collect , you cant fudge the figures with political double talk .

3 No place in the entire world is there an example of a successfull socialist economy , sweden has only been socialist for about 50 yrs & are now nearing collapse .

You might point to other EU countries as an example & id counter with greece , for nearly 12 yrs greece has been bankrupt & are supported by the rest of the EU , who are getting seriously pissed off about supporting an entire country where its more profitable to collect than work , sweden while nearing collapse is the best example of a socialist government , greece being the absolute worst , and no EU socialist country has the massive government costs of the usa , or our military costs & they are all in seriois economic trouble right now , youd know much more if most of the EU & UK werent in a forced media , and social media black out .

Lets go back to the utopia of sweden , who has 1,50th the immigrants the usa has , sweden has proven it takes 7-8 yrs to get roughly half the unemployed immigrant work force employeed so they can " start " paying in taxes , the other 50% will remain jobless their entire lives , these numbers are from economists in sweden , so for every 10,000 unemployed people those 10,000 are a full burden on the " pay out " column for 7-8 yrs , to offset this huge payout another 100,000 workers need to be added to the economys " pay in " tax column immediately , or drastically raise workers taxes again ,which sweden is learning the hard way will break your economy .

All you guys rooting for bernie sanders have been witheld information critical to the issue , socialism is a ponzi scheme who's apeal is to those who dont have , those that wish they had , and those who want free shit , not a single working person wants socialism .
 
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