Light distance at professional facilities

[kmog33]

I'm just going to state this because I couldn't really find it anywhere else in the thread in regards to the op. A big difference between professional facilities and home growers is that there are 100 lights in a sealed/controlled environment. Tons of light overlap and reflective walls to collect and push the light back into the canopies. Now a big room with say 2 million lumens in it, is going to have more light regardless of how high they are than your single hid/led/flouro/whatever.

As a note for tent growers, there really isn't any need to have your lights close as light is absorbed by the plants, so as long as the light is sealed in your environment, some foliage is benefiting from it. I run my 600 hps at the top of my 7.5' tall 3x5 and don't have any density issues at all. There are so many other factors that contribute to yield/density/potency that as long as you have a good light source, you really should be focusing on things like your root system before you try to be scientific about light placement.


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[Arcadio]

It doesn't need to be a rare case though. If it's only a small grow with less than 2000W of lighting then most decent portable AC's can do the job as long as its below 100F outside then they begin to struggle. You should also keep the AC outside the grow space to remove the heat from the AC compressor and hot side of heat exchanger. You direct the cold air to your space via ducting which makes a good difference especially in a smaller space.
I keep an eye out for good deals on second hand portable AC's. You can get good ones for $100 sometimes and I've accumulated 3 so far for only like $400 total in case one breaks I've got a replacement. I haven't had one break and they work out almost as cheap to run as 2 centrifugal fans (inlet/exhaust). That's because the fans stay on a lot more while the AC sometimes stays on only 20% of the time. The fans sometimes stay on 100% of the time and fail to cool the room while making constant noise. And the thing is those 2 fans cost more than $400 combined and they are outperformed in every way.

Also you can run CO2 using a portable AC the way I said, even though it does create positive pressure while the AC runs causing CO2 to leak it's not that much when the AC only comes on a bit. I can keep the ppm above 1000 by just working out in there with the AC regulating temps. A split system AC is better but they cost thousands and setting them up means making big holes in walls. Portable's are highly overlooked when it comes to small grows as they can be very valuable tools, and efficient at the same time when used correctly. Then when smell becomes a big issue you can simply plug in your extraction fan with carbon filter so it either comes on with the AC or runs constant, thus creating negative pressure and hiding odors. This means a lot of air venting so you can't run co2 without wasting it, but running co2 till this stage of growth is still very beneficial and for just a few hundred bucks you can pick up a CO2 tank, regulator, timer, tubing, portable AC, 6 inch ducting and duct tape and there you have what you need to run CO2 very nicely, for the price of 10 bags of coco.

Also on the topic of AC's I recently found an interesting item. I noticed there were some people on a thread looking for ways to cool really small grows like in closets and small grow tents. Since for them a portable AC is too powerful they were looking at some mini usb cooler that uses a wet sponge. It wasn't to be.
What I found was an air conditioner that's made for cooling camping tents and it only uses 360W mains power which is pretty awesome and like 10 000 btus aparently. Could be a really cheap and awesome way to cool even a decent sized grow room with theoretically up to 2000W of light. Don't they say 5000btu's per light is a good amount of cooling. I doubt it really could do 2 thousand watters but I'm sure it could handle a 1000W light no problem and maybe 1400W even 1600W depending on outside temps.

Here's the link if anyone's interested, it's literally the only 360W compressor AC in the whole world I've been able to find. I know there's heaps of people looking for exactly this type of thing and I don't understand why these aren't more common they should sell them at grow shops, I'd choose a 360W AC over 2 centrifugal fans any day considering they cost about the same amount to buy, they'd cost about the same to run too and the AC would give you much more control over your temps.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CampingCon-UPC-3000N-Air-Conditioner-220V-Portable-AC-/222034243271?hash=item33b245aec7:g:0-wAAOSwFNZWz7fF

I hope it really does come close to 10000 btu's this would be a serious gem. Can't wait to try it or hear from someone who already has, if I hear that they work well I'm buying one and selling my portable AC's which use anywhere from 900W to 1200W. Really can't complain much about my portables though they are awesome machines.

 

[Bubblegum31]

Sorry i was referring to you air comments.

Sorry dosent make a sence still am not I just wanna know how he do this am not sayen its not workin.

Even if he mesured it before oxygen is getten depleted by time.
If he growes in the basment How this air is getting changed!!

Its all what I wanma know!

How the place is not getten dump!

 

[RM3]

Sorry dosent make a sence still am not I just wanna know how he do this am not sayen its not workin.

Even if he mesured it before oxygen is getten depleted by time.
If he growes in the basment How this air is getting changed!!

Its all what I wanma know!

How the place is not getten dump!

I'm not sure what part of WIDE OPEN you don't understand

if you open a window is there air on the other side ?

 

[a mongo frog]

Sorry dosent make a sence still am not I just wanna know how he do this am not sayen its not workin.

Even if he mesured it before oxygen is getten depleted by time.
If he growes in the basment How this air is getting changed!!

Its all what I wanma know!

How the place is not getten dump!

Because having stale air is just a myth if thats what you referring to. Why would the air get dumped? What do you mean by depleted air?

 

[Bubblegum31]

Because having stale air is just a myth if thats what you referring to. Why would the air get dumped? What do you mean by depleted air?

Plants use oxygen so is humans.

When you close the space even if its BIG space this oxygen by time is bien used by the plants when lights are on right or when he works in his growing space correct?

So by time this oxygen will be used all right?

 

[Bubblegum31]

I'm not sure what part of WIDE OPEN you don't understand

if you open a window is there air on the other side ?

I dont get what you are sayen but ill follow..

Yes there will be air on the other side of the window!!

But how this fresh air with co2.. on the other side of the window will get into your basment?

 

[RM3]

Plants use oxygen so is humans.

When you close the space even if its BIG space this oxygen by time is bien used by the plants when lights are on right or when he works in his growing space correct?

So by time this oxygen will be used all right?

My basement is not sealed, it is wide open

 

[RM3]

I dont get what you are sayen but ill follow..

Yes there will be air on the other side of the window!!

But how this fresh air with co2.. on the other side of the window will get into your basment?

There is CO2 in the air outside

 

[Bubblegum31]

My basement is not sealed, it is wide open

Aha I got it.. Am sorry for the troubles and appreciate your time answering my questions RM

 

[a mongo frog]

Plants use oxygen so is humans.

When you close the space even if its BIG space this oxygen by time is bien used by the plants when lights are on right or when he works in his growing space correct?

So by time this oxygen will be used all right?

But he has already told you his growing situation. Think he mentioned he has a removable blockade pannel in this wide open basement area, and theres a window down there.

 

[Arcadio]

I'm just going to state this because I couldn't really find it anywhere else in the thread in regards to the op. A big difference between professional facilities and home growers is that there are 100 lights in a sealed/controlled environment. Tons of light overlap and reflective walls to collect and push the light back into the canopies. Now a big room with say 2 million lumens in it, is going to have more light regardless of how high they are than your single hid/led/flouro/whatever.

As a note for tent growers, there really isn't any need to have your lights close as light is absorbed by the plants, so as long as the light is sealed in your environment, some foliage is benefiting from it. I run my 600 hps at the top of my 7.5' tall 3x5 and don't have any density issues at all. There are so many other factors that contribute to yield/density/potency that as long as you have a good light source, you really should be focusing on things like your root system before you try to be scientific about light placement.


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What you said agrees with what I already thought. I asked if their high light placement is related to the huge number of lights in the room causing them to kind of share all the lights due to the large spread of each light being so high. In that case there is a reason for their choice of placement.

I fully hear you about focusing on other factors, but assuming everything else is in spec the only thing left to analyze is the light placement.
What do you think about the power of the sun's light being over 1000W per square meter in places where cannabis thrives? While a 1000W HPS produces like 200W of actual light and about 800W worth of heat. Basically it would be impossible to beat the sun's light output without frying the plants.
You couldn't even use a single 1000W HPS in a square meter grow space. And even if you could, and reflected ALL of the light from the bulb that misses the canopy back to the canopy (which is impossible) you still would be at a mere fraction of the light output of the sun, you'd need multiple 1000W lights to actually produce 1000W of light.
Basically 1000W of light per square meter is an absolutely ridiculous amount and cannabis outdoors seems to like those really bright summer days, the brighter and longer the faster they grow. And they also don't mind the strong UVB days. UVB would be causing problems to a plant before visible light and infra red does I'd think because it's a higher energy wave. And HID lights don't produce much UVB at all. Mostly visible and harmless infrared.

So based on all that how could someone think that an HID light could be too bright for a plant without actually frying the plant though as I said. You could make it too bright by having 10 thousand watters in a square meter but you'd cook it. You could also make it too bright by having a single thousand watter a couple of inches away but again you'd cook it. The HID's produce so much heat/light ratio that it seems impossible to even match the suns 1000W/m2 of light without cooking the plants.

If all that is correct then the way to go would be to try and get your lights as close as possible without heat stressing the plants since all you would be doing is approaching what the sun does but never getting anywhere near it, rather getting as close to it as you can. How could being well below the sun's level be even remotely detrimental to these plants that love the sun?
And again neglecting the need to sacrifice for coverage. Lets consider early to mid veg where coverage isn't an issue and you have the choice of putting the light/s as close as you want.

 

[kmog33]

What you said agrees with what I already thought. I asked if their high light placement is related to the huge number of lights in the room causing them to kind of share all the lights due to the large spread of each light being so high. In that case there is a reason for their choice of placement.

I fully hear you about focusing on other factors, but assuming everything else is in spec the only thing left to analyze is the light placement.
What do you think about the power of the sun's light being over 1000W per square meter in places where cannabis thrives? While a 1000W HPS produces like 200W of actual light and about 800W worth of heat. Basically it would be impossible to beat the sun's light output without frying the plants.
You couldn't even use a single 1000W HPS in a square meter grow space. And even if you could, and reflected ALL of the light from the bulb that misses the canopy back to the canopy (which is impossible) you still would be at a mere fraction of the light output of the sun, you'd need multiple 1000W lights to actually produce 1000W of light.
Basically 1000W of light per square meter is an absolutely ridiculous amount and cannabis outdoors seems to like those really bright summer days, the brighter and longer the faster they grow. And they also don't mind the strong UVB days. UVB would be causing problems to a plant before visible light and infra red does I'd think because it's a higher energy wave. And HID lights don't produce much UVB at all. Mostly visible and harmless infrared.

So based on all that how could someone think that an HID light could be too bright for a plant without actually frying the plant though as I said. You could make it too bright by having 10 thousand watters in a square meter but you'd cook it. You could also make it too bright by having a single thousand watter a couple of inches away but again you'd cook it. The HID's produce so much heat/light ratio that it seems impossible to even match the suns 1000W/m2 of light without cooking the plants.

If all that is correct then the way to go would be to try and get your lights as close as possible without heat stressing the plants since all you would be doing is approaching what the sun does but never getting anywhere near it, rather getting as close to it as you can. How could being well below the sun's level be even remotely detrimental to these plants that love the sun?
And again neglecting the need to sacrifice for coverage. Lets consider early to mid veg where coverage isn't an issue and you have the choice of putting the light/s as close as you want.

You can put 1k in a square meter it's just be hard to fit the 2+ lbs in it to justify the electric bill. We're mostly trying to optimize our space IMO not compete with the sun. If you could put out as much light as the sun and control heat/canopy tents, you still couldn't justify the electric usage/costs.

 

[flowersforfree]

I'm no pro, in fact my first grow can be followed "fun with super skunk"
I had this talk with my local grow shop
He told me to keep my 1000w lamp minimum of 36 inches from my tops
so in not wanting to hurt my plants I hung the lamp 40 inches from my tops and let the plant grow to the light
it was slow growing for the first 4 inches but now that they got into the 36 inch range they really took off
now my plants were getting close to the 30 inch range and my nodes are getting tight about 1/4 inch.
my thought was instead of moving my lights back to the 36 inch range I super cropped and will let them grow back to optimal distance.

I have really enjoyed this thread, has my gears turning

 

[kmog33]

I'm no pro, in fact my first grow can be followed "fun with super skunk"
I had this talk with my local grow shop
He told me to keep my 1000w lamp minimum of 36 inches from my tops
so in not wanting to hurt my plants I hung the lamp 40 inches from my tops and let the plant grow to the light
it was slow growing for the first 4 inches but now that they got into the 36 inch range they really took off
now my plants were getting close to the 30 inch range and my nodes are getting tight about 1/4 inch.
my thought was instead of moving my lights back to the 36 inch range I super cropped and will let them grow back to optimal distance.

I have really enjoyed this thread, has my gears turning
View attachment 3648049

I've had plants pretty much X grow into the glass on my 600s and 1ks and as long as your canopy temps are in check you can do it. Not great though. That being said I generally keep thousands 3-5' off the canopy. Some plants stretch a lot though lol.

 

[Sativied]

I'm just going to state this because I couldn't really find it anywhere else in the thread in regards to the op. A big difference between professional facilities and home growers is that there are 100 lights in a sealed/controlled environment. Tons of light overlap and reflective walls to collect and push the light back into the canopies. Now a big room with say 2 million lumens in it, is going to have more light regardless of how high they are than your single hid/led/flouro/whatever.

As a note for tent growers, there really isn't any need to have your lights close as light is absorbed by the plants, so as long as the light is sealed in your environment, some foliage is benefiting from it. I run my 600 hps at the top of my 7.5' tall 3x5 and don't have any density issues at all. There are so many other factors that contribute to yield/density/potency that as long as you have a good light source, you really should be focusing on things like your root system before you try to be scientific about light placement.

Ironically putting it higher up (single bulb in tent/closet) can result in better penetration and more uniform light delivery hortizontally and vertically than hanging it as low as possible.

1mm per watt works well for 'small' hps grows as a starting point. Ie. 60 cm (24") for 600watt, little over 3' for thousand. Then lower or raise as needed or desired.

 

[Bubblegum31]

Ironically putting it higher up (single bulb in tent/closet) can result in better penetration and more uniform light delivery hortizontally and vertically than hanging it as low as possible.

1mm per watt works well for 'small' hps grows as a starting point. Ie. 60 cm (24") for 600watt, little over 3' for thousand. Then lower or raise as needed or desired.

Am downloading my video on you tube now guys

 

[UncleBuck]

I love you UB you make doin this fun

i would stop growing if i ever grew anything that horrible.

you brag about it.

yuck.

 

[UncleBuck]

Dudes a pro, you know that.

clearly!

 

[kmog33]

Ironically putting it higher up (single bulb in tent/closet) can result in better penetration and more uniform light delivery hortizontally and vertically than hanging it as low as possible.

1mm per watt works well for 'small' hps grows as a starting point. Ie. 60 cm (24") for 600watt, little over 3' for thousand. Then lower or raise as needed or desired.

Great addition. I'm on the same boat with my lighting in general. I'm under the impression that as long as you collect and reflect the light back, it's going to get used at somepoint.(I guess up to the point of light saturation, but none of use are all that close to that)