Ketogenic diet

[astronautrob]

So I'm on my third day of this ketogenic diet, and I must admit that I feel awesome so far. I wanted to start up a thread/journal to report on my progress and see if anyone else has had experience/success with this kind of lifestyle.

I'm going to be doing this for 21 days, it's reported that it takes that long for your body to go in to a ketogenic state. This is really more of an experiment than anything else. I want to see how I feel once my body starts running off of fats instead of sugars. To my understand (feel free to correct me), that is basically what this diet does. It is said that when your body starts to burn fats more effectively one can experience a much more even levels of energy throughout the day, rather than the peaks and crashes that comes from burning sugar (or carbs). This is just one of the many reported benefits that have been said to come from this change in the body. Another big advantage that is said to happen on this diet is the mental clarity you get from cutting out the processed sugar in your diet, so I'm stoked about that too. I'm all about trying to optimize my body. So I'm on day 3 and already feeling the loss of energy with no sugar in my body. I've been much less pumped at the gym the past 3 days, lifting less weight, etc., but this is to be expected as the body shifts from a high sugar diet to a high fat diet so I'm not worried right now.

Like I said this is just going to be a running journal of my experiences while trying this diet for 21 days. Anyone with any input or just wants to discuss feel free, I really would like some discussion on diets and fitness, I find it super interesting.

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Restrictive Diets work fast. But they are hard. They are not the best approach, or even a sustainable long term approach. But at least they are some kind of structure, so you can start paying attention to nutrition. Like your first weight lifting routine probably sucked, but you had to start somewhere.

I went pretty low carb for awhile August/September last year. It was effective, I dropped 10 pounds quickly. I sort of just maintained in the weight room. I lifted the same weights for a month at a time, just trying to cut down rest times, or add a rep here or there. Maintaing strength at a lower bodyweight is getting stronger.

I tried to get 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, divideded over 4 meals. Then twice as many veggies as meat. And fish oil at every meal.

I felt pretty good the whole time. After 3 weeks or a month, I went back to more normal eating. But it was easy to cut out lots of the junk that I had been eating before. Also, trying to get all that protein in made me eat in a very regimented, mechanical way. I had to get breakfast. I couldn't miss lunch, plus I had to eat by 1pm, so I could still get my other 2 meals before bed.

These habits improved my "regular" eating. Now my woman and I eat lots of veggies daily, and fish every week. Way less junk and resturant crap. Through better eating I've lost another 10 pounds over the last 6 months.

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Did you count how many calories you were getting before you started this diet plan? When you start a very regimented, restricted plan, its easy to drop calories Way, way down really fast. This kills your energy. And makes its hard to recover from workouts. Which puts your body in a state where it wants to consume muscle, not build muscle.

Hopefully someone trained and educated will weigh in!

 

[sunni]

Good luck !!
As previously mentioned diets are just that short term diets they have no long term sustainable function

I hope you achieve the results you are looking for in the meantime I would suggest looking into long term sustainability for after your diet is done

Honestly clean eating really works

 

[astronautrob]

Good luck !!
As previously mentioned diets are just that short term diets they have no long term sustainable function

I hope you achieve the results you are looking for in the meantime I would suggest looking into long term sustainability for after your diet is done

Honestly clean eating really works

Did you count how many calories you were getting before you started this diet plan? When you start a very regimented, restricted plan, its easy to drop calories Way, way down really fast. This kills your energy. And makes its hard to recover from workouts. Which puts your body in a state where it wants to consume muscle, not build muscle.

Hopefully someone trained and educated will weigh in!

This isn't a diet that deprives you of anything though, I think that's where some of the confusion is coming in. I didn't count my calories before this diet change and I won't be counting them after. I've always ate when my body told me it was hungry, and this diet is no different. I've always ate fairly healthy also, so really this wasn't that big of change for me. Maybe diet isn't the right word for it, it seems like this leads everyone to assuming that I am depriving myself of calories or something, which is totally not the case. I'm in fact actually eating more calories, more fats, more protein, basically more of almost everything except sugar and grains. I'm in no way at all trying to lose any weight, or gain weight for that matter, this is simple to see how my body feels once it's accustom to burning fats instead of sugar.

Maybe I should of put a little background on this "diet". I'll find more literature if anyone is interested, but basically the short of it is.....Your body can run off two (if not more) primary means of "fuel" or energy. One being sugar (natural sugar, processed sugar, carbs that is converted in to sugars, etc.), the other being fats (lipids, etc.). Our American western diet is VERY heavy on sugar and carbs (which remember just get converted (mostly) into sugars for the body to use as energy). What a ketogenic diet does is modifies your body, through a no sugar and VERY low carb intake diet, to start burning fats for your energy instead of carbs. Many have reported vast benefits from this change, more energy throughout the day, no sugar crashes from missing meals, a noticeable mental clarity, energy seems to be more even throughout the day, etc. So this diet is not aimed at cutting calories, eating less, eating more, or anything like that, it's only aim is to have your body burn fats throughout the day instead of sugar/carbs.

Also, as I mentioned I will be doing this for 21 days, so this isn't something that I'm looking at sustaining. It's said, once you get your body in a ketogenic state, and it converts to burning fats more effectively for your energy, you can go back to a low amount of carbs and sugar if you like. I won't be doing that personally, sugar is forever gone in my diet, but I will incorporate more carbs (i.e. quinoa, rice, etc.) back in my daily diet since I enjoy them. So I think the word diet as a lot of baggage attached to it, so I'll call this a new eating habit from now on cause it's really not a diet in the traditional sense.

 

[sunni]

Mm to me it's a still considered a diet
I understand what you mean about baggage behind the word diet and I don't think every diet is restrictive
Nor did I imply that but it is still a diet

I'm a certified holistic nutritionist which is just a big fancy word for knowing my nutrition enough to get paid for the advice of it lol the only reason I chimed in
So to me it's a diet , clean eating like real clean is all anyone actually needs
The high protein low carb sugar free blah blah whatever (there's so many ) is a diet and it isn't a long term sustainable option

But that's just my opinion and as I said before I wish you luck !

 

[astronautrob]

Mm to me it's a still considered a diet
I understand what you mean about baggage behind the word diet and I don't think every diet is restrictive
Nor did I imply that but it is still a diet

I'm a certified holistic nutritionist which is just a big fancy word for knowing my nutrition enough to get paid for the advice of it lol the only reason I chimed in
So to me it's a diet , clean eating like real clean is all anyone actually needs
The high protein low carb sugar free blah blah whatever (there's so many ) is a diet and it isn't a long term sustainable option

But that's just my opinion and as I said before I wish you luck !

Isn't anything a we eat throughout the day a diet then? I mean come on, now we're just talking semantics. So what we eat throughout the day is considered a "diet", or just our eating habits, no?. I'm just curious, because it seems like you discount a low sugar intake eating habit, are you advocating for sugar then? Did you read what I post though? I'm not looking at doing this long term, it's only for 21 days, then your body starts to metabolize fats instead of sugars for your energy. You keep talking about "clean eating", I'm confused what you mean by this as it is very general. Someone who eats predominately meats and veggies would not be a "clean" eater in your opinion? Not trying to come off as argumentative but I really am curious how a someone who is so in to nutrition could put something like "low carb sugar blah blah", it makes it sound like your becoming defensive and discounting the science behind it. Eliminating sugar from your diet and cutting grains (for a time) is not "clean eating" to you? It's changing the way your body is getting it's fuel, it's not about being "clean" or dirty, your body doesn't know the difference. Energy (ATP) is energy, the body doesn't care if you get it from fats or sugar. So if I could have a better life experience by having my body burn fats throughout the day instead of sugar why wouldn't I? you're throwing out this term "clean eating" but that's way too general. A variety of foods can make up a clean eating healthy eating habit (or diet). All this change aims to do is eliminate your dependence on processed/added sugar. Can we at least agree that is a good thing?

 

[sunni]

Isn't anything a diet then? Just what we eat throughout the day is considered a "diet". It's just our eating habits, no?. I'm just curious, because it seems like you discount a low sugar intake eating habit, are you advocating for sugar then? Did you read what I post though? I'm not looking at doing this long term, it's only for 21 days, then your body starts to metabolize fats instead of sugars for your energy. You keep talking about "clean eating", I'm confused what you mean by this as it is very general. Someone who eats predominately meats and veggies would not be a "clean" eater in your opinion? Not trying to come off as argumentative but I really am curious how a someone who is so in to nutrition could put something like "low carb sugar blah blah", it makes it sound like your becoming defensive and discounting the science behind it. Eliminating sugar from your diet and cutting grains (for a time) is not "clean eating" to you? It's changing the way your body is getting it's fuel, it's not about being "clean" or dirty, your body doesn't know the difference. Energy (ATP) is energy, the body doesn't care if you get it from fats or sugar. So if I could have a better life experience by having my body burn fats throughout the day instead of sugar why wouldn't I? you're throwing out this term "clean eating" but that's way too general. A variety of foods can make up a clean eating healthy eating habit (or diet). All this change aims to do is eliminate your dependence on processed/added sugar. Can we at least agree that is a good thing?

i read what you posted for sure
sorry i was just saying theres a range of diets that are high protein, or low sugar, low carb, high carb i said blah blah because thats just how i chit chat you know like etc etc. yadda yadda, its not mean to be defensive at all all. its just how i chat. im not here to get into lengthy debates just general chatting

i think you just misunderstood how i was talking or the tone i was i was typing in, sorry for that.

i dont think theres anything wrong with what youre doing nor have i implied that at all, ive said good luck several times now , i think ill back out of this conversation because it seems to me, youre misunderstanding how im speaking with you. and trying to start up an argument over how i type, and converse ...and to frank i dont have the time of day to get into a heated argument thats just not what i use the forum for

 

[astronautrob]

i read what you posted for sure
sorry i was just saying theres a range of diets that are high protein, or low sugar, low carb, high carb i said blah blah because thats just how i chit chat you know like etc etc. yadda yadda, its not mean to be defensive at all all. its just how i chat. im not here to get into lengthy debates just general chatting

i think you just misunderstood how i was talking or the tone i was i was typing in, sorry for that.

i dont think theres anything wrong with what youre doing nor have i implied that at all, ive said good luck several times now , i think ill back out of this conversation because it seems to me, youre misunderstanding how im speaking with you. and trying to start up an argument over how i type, and converse ...and to frank i dont have the time of day to get into a heated argument thats just not what i use the forum for

Well I think you did the same to me then, reading my post in the wrong tone that is. I was in no way trying to argumentative, as I stated, I really wanted to hear what answers you would have for those questions on energy and ATP. I apologize for commenting on the way you type, usually "blah, blah, blah" is used as dismissive language so I took it as such. Also, because you kept talking about the sustainability of the diet I questioned whether you read my post as I stated a couple times this was only going to be for 21 days. All simple misunderstandings, I'm sorry we couldn't have a more civilized discussion, but alas it's the fragile world we live in. I was really interested to hear from an expert. Thanks for all the luck tho!

 

[astronautrob]

Thought this was some good information about the biology behind ketosis, the full article can be found here (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/), a couple things I found interesting.....
"Normally, human bodies are sugar-driven machines: ingested carbohydrates are broken down into glucose, which is mainly transported and used as energy or stored as glycogen in liver and muscle tissue. When deprived of dietary carbohydrates (usually below 50g/day), the liver becomes the sole provider of glucose to feed your hungry organs – especially the brain, a particularly greedy entity accounting for ~20% of total energy expenditure. The brain cannot DIRECTLY use fat for energy. Once liver glycogen is depleted, without a backup energy source, humanity would’ve long disappeared in the eons of evolution.

The backup is ketone bodies that the liver derives primarily from fatty acids in your diet or body fat. These ketones – ?-hydroxybutyrate (BHB), acetoacetate and acetone – are released into the bloodstream, taken up by the brain and other organs, shuttled into the “energy factory” mitochondria and used up as fuel."

 

[HGK420]

everyone saying keto isn't sustainable should look into Dom D'agastino and Mark sisson.

Dom D'agastino while in a LONG TERM ketogenic state Fasted for SEVEN DAYS and then deadlifted more then 500 pounds TEN TIMES in front of an audience of hundreds... he then gave more then an hour long speech to the audience with NO SLURRING and was absolutely mentally on point.

Dom and Mark have showed some pretty good evidence that as long as you ingest plenty of good fats (all hail lord coconut oil) you will have plenty of long term energy and even perform BETTER when its some sort of endurance activity. maintaining glucose levels with carbs during a 24 hour plus endurance event is really really complicated and scheduled out to a T and if you miss by even a few minutes you might just crash.... not on keto... on keto you draw from stores of ketones and are good to go.

i myself have plained out at less then 20 carbs a day and NO SUGAR or breads and I'm in keto now. i started at 50 carbs a day and went down by 5 carbs a day every week for 6 weeks to get down to 20 carbs a day. during those 6 weeks i cut out the sugars and breads and everything else AWESOME one by one...

i can't just completely cut carbs out just yet, sauces are my achilles heel. i literally save my 20 carbs a day for ketchup or BBQ sauce or whatever lol...

check out Joe Rogan Experience for some fun info

ole tim ferris has been toting the ANTI-carb flag for a while now too

i myself love keto. i used to weigh 275 pounds and i was TERRIBLY soft and not strong.... i went full vegetarian and exercise crazy and lost 100 pounds down to 175 AND LEAN... i was running a 2 mile in 14minutes but i looked like Rich Roll or one of the walking dead... i was soooooo skinny and weak...

NOW ON KETO... I'm about 2 months in and I'm at a STRONG 205 and i work out half as much as i used to when i was a vegetarian.... when i was vegetarian (5 years) i still had a very soft belly and couldn't get myself to bulk to save my life... 400 dollars worth of supplements and protein powder a month DIDNT DO SHIT... gotta get them fats son! and stay away from sugar... thats the biggest one.. NO REDBULLS NO JUICE NO SWEET PRE WORKOUTS!!! its all sugar.

Moral to my post..... GO KETO if you can hang!

 

[Hazy_Nights.DC]

Thought to go ketogenic you must wait 16 hours before you eat..

 

[HGK420]

Thought to go ketogenic you must wait 16 hours before you eat..

depends on how high you want your ketone numbers to be at. if you wait to eat for a while it will be higher. personally i just wanna teeter on the edge of ketosis. I'm gonna spend a few weeks in ketosis and then on heavy work out days il have 100 or so grams of carbs.

check out the mark sisson pod cast above with joe, he talks about hybrid keto diets. basically the more time you spend in keto the more mitochondria you build and the more fats you can burn and then as long as you don't go full blown off the wagon 3 week long bread and ice cream craze you would be able to maintain minor ketosis and keep fat burning at a max.

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

That sounds a little more realistic. Carbs aren't evil, they are just energy. Use them! Especially on days you really work hard. This is like "strategic eating." Not some crazy set of "diet rules."

The ketogenic approach got you thinking about nutrition. It taught you the fundamentals, and gave you some frame-work to structure your eating.

Now, you have the tools to figure out how and what to eat for real.

 

[HGK420]

That sounds a little more realistic. Carbs aren't evil, they are just energy. Use them! Especially on days you really work hard. This is like "strategic eating." Not some crazy set of "diet rules."

The ketogenic approach got you thinking about nutrition. It taught you the fundamentals, and gave you some frame-work to structure your eating.

Now, you have the tools to figure out how and what to eat for real.

some carbs are EVIL!

check out alpha and beta bonded carbs

so if you watched the video it shows you that some are EVIL lol. breads, sugars, fruit juices and some vegetables all have wayyyyyy to much sugar/bad carbs compared to the benefit they give you.... so ya when you DOOO eat some carbs try your hardest to make them be something good for you. ACTUAL fruit, ACTUAL vegetables.

if you gotta have sweets try to find stuff as low as possible in sugar and flour nonsense and you will be wayyyyy ahead.

heres the most recent podcast with joe rogan and his guest kevin rose of G4 and Digg.com fame. they discuss walking the line of keto and how you can eat fruit or ice-cream or something and get knocked out but then just fast a little or just eat straight fats for a little while and your right back into keto. over time it becomes easier and easier to maintain and very high fat burning metabolism even with a moderate amount of carbs. thats your final goal. thats why you eat steak only for a week or two lol or whatever your fat of choice is.. you put yourself through the initial eating ONLY fats and fasting to get to the point where your body can handle moderate carbs.. thats the promised land! minor keto AND i can eat some fruit/veggies.. i can't wait!

 

[youraveragehorticulturist]

Thanks for the info/links.

 

[astronautrob]

Went on a little vaca there, again, but I'm back with my report. So today would be day 15, roughly two weeks in and feeling pretty good so far. Was fairly difficult to stick to the diet on the trip, if you ever tried to get anything at a restaurant that for sure doesn't have added sugar you know what I'm talking about, but I did well. After two weeks my I notice a couple changes, some good, some bad, so far.....

The biggest thing that I notice is how I feel when I get hungry, which I try not to let happen usually but does throughout the day from time to time. I don't crash at all. I know I'm hungry, I can definitely feel it, but I don't have that same crash feeling like I used to get when I was hungry. This helps me from coming in the house and grabbing the first thing I see and eating it. This change has been very helpful so far.

Another change I've noticed is a more even distribution of energy throughout the day. I have energy when I need it, like when I go to the gym, but can also relax when it's required, like going to sleep at night.

I do feel better overall, most of the changes have been very beneficial, but one no so much. The only thing that has been not so helpful on this diet is the change in my stomach condition. My stomach seems fairly upset with this eating habit, but to be far it was really never that good to begin with. I'll monitor this.

I like that we have some folks in here who actually understand the science behind this way of eating, as it is not your typical diet. If you watch the videos, or know anything about Joe Rogan Mark Sisson or whoever else he has on there, these people are in excellent shape and still doing this diet. It's not a diet to lose weight, gain weight, or anything like that.

@HGK420 awesome info! I'm pretty much right there with your idea of carbs. There are "bad" and "good" carbs, along with pseudo grains, cereal grains, multi-grains, whole grains, etc. I'm trying to get to essentially the same spot you are. I want to bang out 21 days to get myself in a keto state but then after that I'm going to reincorporate pseudo grains while still keeping myself on the 50g cards threshold, and of course still keeping processed sugar and "bad" carbs completely out of my diet. Do you notice the mental clarity Sisson talks about? That's what I'm waiting for next. I lol'd at the coconut oil mention too, so true, so true.
Blender + shakes have also been a godsend, couldn't get through the day without them. Think I'll start posting some shake recipes here too in case anyone is interest.

 

[astronautrob]

depends on how high you want your ketone numbers to be at. if you wait to eat for a while it will be higher. personally i just wanna teeter on the edge of ketosis. I'm gonna spend a few weeks in ketosis and then on heavy work out days il have 100 or so grams of carbs.

check out the mark sisson pod cast above with joe, he talks about hybrid keto diets. basically the more time you spend in keto the more mitochondria you build and the more fats you can burn and then as long as you don't go full blown off the wagon 3 week long bread and ice cream craze you would be able to maintain minor ketosis and keep fat burning at a max.

Exactly where I want to be. So did you do a hard 21 days to get to a keto state or just over time? Sorry if you already covered that I didn't see it in your posts

 

[astronautrob]

My morning shake today:
1/3 can coconut milk
2 scoops cashew butter
1/2 avocado
2 tbsp hemp seeds
2 scoops Greek yogurt (I use fage)
2-3 frozen strawberries
1 banana
some spinach
and an ice cube

I know this shake it probably pretty high in sugar from the berries and yogurt, but it has a lot of good fat too. I like to do a shake in the morning for the simple fact that I don't get really hungry when I wake up and I can modify how I want. I'll usually do a little lower sugar shake, less berries more avocado, but needed a little extra energy this morning to get going. That's the key to me, this isn't a diet where you can cheat or anything, there are really no foods that are technically off limits. You just can take yourself out of a keto state if you do eat too many of this or that food, but if your body is good at burning fats already then you'll right back to that state if you go back to eating good fats/no sugar, etc.

 

[HGK420]

i can't truthfully comment on mental clarity because i have a 1 and a 2 year old at the moment and sleep no more then 90 min at a time most nights lol sooooo... my mental clarity probably is hindered BUT yes i do see a big change in my mood and mental stability.

i was completely addicted to red bulls only a year ago and literally would start nodding out every 2 hours or so if i didn't have more red bull/sugar.. Now i burn right on by even the 4:00 pm sleepy time without issue. i don't argue or fight with my fiancé much any more. I'm much more controlled, much more rational.

check out "that sugar film" he talks about the mania that sugar can put you in and keep you bouncing up and down in all day.