the only shortcoming that a good performing led has is up front cost.
wheres the plural ?
First kid on the block...
- Thread starter bravedave
- Start date
wheres the plural ?
bravedave
Well-Known Member
@whitebb2727
Business you been involved in?
Yes?
Like in growing veggies or pot?
No.
Any smart business person would care what their cost per gram is.
Not if you were a plumber. (Not a plumber either)
Umm, was it not that long ago you were new here and working out the best setup for yourself?
Still am.
Now you claim to have been part of multiple cannabis businesses?
Never claimed this.
I know. I know. You didn't say that but that's how it reads.
Cannot guess at the comprehension of others.
If you think cents, you will get cents. Think dollars, you get dollars.
Now you are talking.
You are thinking short term. Yea you know that hid does have an advantage over led in the short run.
No. My example was short term. Long term starts with me having at least a 30 pound advantage over my LED competition.
What about 10, 15, 30 years from now? A smart person would take, let's say, 20% of the profit and invest in led.
Maybe I will or maybe if the price is still high on LED I will just open another 30 light WH modeled after the current. I have many options with my huge take in year 1.
Led is only going to get better. If you build your system right you can just swap cobs as they come out.
I agree. I would monitor breakeven points and make the switch when it was advantageous.
.
Any and every company is concerned with what it cost to make their product.
Of course.
Hid has the advantage only for the short run.
How so?
If I were to start a facility, and I might for hemp, I would start with hid but for sure be led before it was over.
Who could argue that?
Business you been involved in?
Yes?
Like in growing veggies or pot?
No.
Any smart business person would care what their cost per gram is.
Not if you were a plumber. (Not a plumber either)
Umm, was it not that long ago you were new here and working out the best setup for yourself?
Still am.
Now you claim to have been part of multiple cannabis businesses?
Never claimed this.
I know. I know. You didn't say that but that's how it reads.
Cannot guess at the comprehension of others.
If you think cents, you will get cents. Think dollars, you get dollars.
Now you are talking.
You are thinking short term. Yea you know that hid does have an advantage over led in the short run.
No. My example was short term. Long term starts with me having at least a 30 pound advantage over my LED competition.
What about 10, 15, 30 years from now? A smart person would take, let's say, 20% of the profit and invest in led.
Maybe I will or maybe if the price is still high on LED I will just open another 30 light WH modeled after the current. I have many options with my huge take in year 1.
Led is only going to get better. If you build your system right you can just swap cobs as they come out.
I agree. I would monitor breakeven points and make the switch when it was advantageous.
.
Any and every company is concerned with what it cost to make their product.
Of course.
Hid has the advantage only for the short run.
How so?
If I were to start a facility, and I might for hemp, I would start with hid but for sure be led before it was over.
Who could argue that?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Let me start off by saying that if I had my own warehouse right now, it'd be decked out with HPS to reduce startup cost. That being said, the whole premise of the OP's argument is that your company can grow faster by getting more production up front. This makes the assumption that the budget for both growers is 10k, but using the same 10k budget for LED is ridiculous. You'd have to throw down a lot more money up front to get the same yield as HPS. It's a bad assumption to make that the LED grower in this hypothetical situation would be spending the same amount of money on lights as the HPS grower.
I'd agree that HPS is still where it's at for anyone growing commercially, especially if they're intending on growing production. What I disagree with is the assumption that a businessman could have the same 10k budget for lighting his warehouse with HPS or LED. The lost opportunity cost of those extra "60 pounds" comes from not increasing the budget to actually fill the warehouse you're renting, even if he had to go get a 20k loan to supplement his original 10k budget.
Again, all that being said, I'd still go with HPS myself for commercial.
I'd agree that HPS is still where it's at for anyone growing commercially, especially if they're intending on growing production. What I disagree with is the assumption that a businessman could have the same 10k budget for lighting his warehouse with HPS or LED. The lost opportunity cost of those extra "60 pounds" comes from not increasing the budget to actually fill the warehouse you're renting, even if he had to go get a 20k loan to supplement his original 10k budget.
Again, all that being said, I'd still go with HPS myself for commercial.
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bravedave
Well-Known Member
[
Yes, if you are running 30 to 30. LED will eventually catch up and pass HID.
Thank you for the reasoned response. The only thing i'd counter with is that in this scenario it would make more sense to come up with a space charge that also would be deducted as used... The static dollars for equipment is what makes the point. I mean for every 1 LED you take a loan out for I can take a loan out for 3 HIDs. Right?
Yes, if you are running 30 to 30. LED will eventually catch up and pass HID.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You're bound by how much space you have in the warehouse. I would suspect that the costs of renting/purchasing the warehouse far outweighs the extra 20k dollars in this hypothetical case. Either way, I would feel a lot more comfortable going with all HPS to start to avoid having to get that extra funding. How do I even know my warehouse will survive for 5 years? What if I need a 20k loan later down the line to fix something I didn't know would break? etc.
JorgeGonzales
Well-Known Member
And all of it was to troll.
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Certainly didn't glean anything from you. Duh $.21kw. Duh duh $900. Duh. Yeah, "solid". Do you walk to school or carry your lunch? Lol.
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
If cost is that big of a factor, then a combo setup would be the way to go. Concentrate the leds mostly on the Vegging area to save on electrical in the 18+ hr rooms and do a combo of HPS and LEDs for the flower room. As you make money, faze out the HPS.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
We grow with LEDs because they're fucking awesome. That's it. Ya they cost more. I'm so tired if these "is it worth the extra". Honestly, no. But to not have a bulb burning at 400*+ in a fabric tent and to cut electricity more than half, cough up the cash and enjoy them.
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Smart.
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nogod_
Well-Known Member
If you cant afford to max out your available space, with any lighting tech, avoid that tech.
You cant afford to max out your space with your available funds so why are we having this conversation?
Pretty much everyone here is in a 4x4 or 5x5 or 2x2 and they can afford to max out their space with LED. They can also build the units themselves in a weekend. Youre not and you cant so you dont get to play.
Good luck with the HID, come back when youve dropped your 60pack
You cant afford to max out your space with your available funds so why are we having this conversation?
Pretty much everyone here is in a 4x4 or 5x5 or 2x2 and they can afford to max out their space with LED. They can also build the units themselves in a weekend. Youre not and you cant so you dont get to play.
Good luck with the HID, come back when youve dropped your 60pack
Alienwidow
Well-Known Member
Bullshit. Its going up right now. Some guy just offered me a unit for 24. 20@16. 50@15. Obviously wasnt into that but id say the norm is around 2k right now and itll go up in the next three months. Last year it was 16. Since those pot shops opened and they charge like 26 a unit, everyones said fuck it, ours is better, why charge a grand less when theyre gonna come to us anyway. Its Oregon prices that i think will drop the most. Every house in Oregon can have four plants legally. You want it, grow it. Now thats gonna sting the black market economy impo.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
Save the hid for backup or starting a second facility.
Alienwidow
Well-Known Member
This is a good scenario for a warehouse, but for 10k in a "warehouse" aka corner of a garage? With a 10k grow who cares? Personally id guess buying once instead of twice would be cheaper. Now if you get upwards of 70k then there may be some potential savings there, but with 10k youll get a minisplit 3.5k, dehu 1k, room build 1k, filters fans co2 ect 1k, and ya barely got enough left over for the first three months power bills before you even get the fucking lights!
Bullshit price are down and gong lower. Lucky if you can get 2K a pound unless you have a well established connection already in place. Dispensaries are rapidly disappearing as the July deadlines come in, and the new Washington laws reenter a new form of prohibition. Seattle is shutting down delivery services. Medical growers are getting squeezed.
you think 2k a pound is tight? Wait for 1K a pound. talk about profit margin squeeze.
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Alienwidow
Well-Known Member
Ya thats why ive seen them going up. If all the medical guys disappear, and the shops are at 26, why would the now illegal bootleggers keep dropping prices? Thats why ive seen guys jacking up prices for a year now. They know the new prohibition is coming. I just remembered another guy offered me a 20 pack @18/unit. If you can find 20 For 20k you come get ahold of me ok?
There won't be any retail/med shops that can buy from a non-502 grower.If all the medical guys disappear, and the shops are at 26, why would the now illegal bootleggers keep dropping prices?
Medical growers of any size will become the new black market. Prices will continue to languish since there is no easy safe way to establish new customers. Craigslist and other local ad services has already become a cat and mouse game with LE Easy availability in the 502 stores ends up controlling relative pricing. As the 502 growers continue to get their game on, supply will be plentiful.