Seeding Vs Clones For Higher Yeild ?

[GuerillaGanjaGrower]

I'm pretty sure any "clone degradation" that's taking place is from the grower fucking up the line a little each cycle..... It's well known that the grower can change factors in the op to bring out different expressions in clones from the same plant....

You're a dumbass, obviously a noob that doesn't know shit.

You must be a trump supporter because all you can do is call people names when so one uses facts and science to prove you wrong. You just have to deal with the fact that you are a nobody and people like me can grow just as good or better cannabis than you. It's not rocket science or you wouldn't be able to grow weed stupid.

 

[mr sunshine]

I see what you are saying but many clone only strains are used to make seeds of those strains and then those are cloned and so on and on and on....

Here you are claiming s1 seeds are what keep clone only strains alive. Stupid , those are the clone onlys kids. That isnt the exact same plant. Thats completely wrong..

I wasn't acting like anything. There are plenty of growers that have discussed this issue with a lot more knowledge than you. You know more than Ed who has traveled the world growing this plant, has more masters degrees than you can count to. When did you publish multiple books on the science of growing cannabis? Where is your SCIENCE to back up your ignorance. I was simply saying that with all of the breeding that has been done a clone only strain is not really needed.

Here you are backpedaling and making more retarded statements that are complete bullshit. Clone only strains are not needed? Clone onlys are elite genetics. Most seeds dont stack up to them.. clone only strains are rare special phenotypes, Why the hell do you think people keep them around,? When you deal with clones from proven elite genetics you dont have any pheno variations. Every seed is a gamble, some are ok some are great and some you want to keep forever,those special ones that you dont want to let go, are the clone onlys.. not to mention the fact that they're already sexually mature.. ed Rosenthal doesnt deal in real science its all bro science. I bet you flush too dont you,? You're the one claiming that you've seen scientific evidence that a clones.quality degrades over time.show me the proof,I didn't make that claim and say I have scientific evidence to back it up. Show me , unless you're lying out of Your ass or something.. at this point im just playing with you we all know your lying dude .give it up already you look retarded as fuck.

 

[GuyLeDuche]

You must be a trump supporter because all you can do is call people names when so one uses facts and science to prove you wrong. You just have to deal with the fact that you are a nobody and people like me can grow just as good or better cannabis than you. It's not rocket science or you wouldn't be able to grow weed stupid.

Why are you quoting me with this^ nonsense? I'd ask you to leave me out of any childish namecalling,

 

[Woyaboy]

Only been growing for a few months now, haven't even made it to my 4th week of flower yet, and I gotta say the weed growing community fucking sucks big hairy donkey balls. I thought we were supposed to all be "medicated", seems like every fucking grower on earth needs to get a lil high off their own supply. This petty argument bullsh is in EVERY fucking thread. Not just here either, I see it on Reddit/r/microgrowery and /r/autoflowers /r/herbgrow, ICmag, 420 magazine, Growweedeasy etc.

Yea, yea I know, "fuck off newbie", well I am. Peace ya'll and have a good night.

 

[mr sunshine]

Only been growing for a few months now, haven't even made it to my 4th week of flower yet, and I gotta say the weed growing community fucking sucks big hairy donkey balls. I thought we were supposed to all be "medicated", seems like every fucking grower on earth needs to get a lil high off their own supply. This petty argument bullsh is in EVERY fucking thread. Not just here either, I see it on Reddit/r/microgrowery and /r/autoflowers /r/herbgrow, ICmag, 420 magazine, Growweedeasy etc.

Yea, yea I know, "fuck off newbie", well I am. Peace ya'll and have a good night.

Great people here, a shitload of great growers,tons of useful information, you just cant be a pussy. If you have LeBron james type feelings,you're not going to like it here. Also should only speak on experience,if your just relaying some noob shit you read on the internet then don't walk around giving advice like you know shit..overall pretty great place though.

 

[GuyLeDuche]

Is there a place on the internet that's not packed full of assholes lol? But don't fuck off newbie, just tune it out

 

[Woyaboy]

I hear ya guys. Thanks for the replies. You both may not remember me but you've both helped me out with advice on stuff in other threads. I appreciate that a lot. Hope your grows are going well!

 

[GuerillaGanjaGrower]

Great people here, a shitload of great growers,tons of useful information, you just cant be a pussy. If you have LeBron james type feelings,you're not going to like it here. Also should only speak on experience,if your just relaying some noob shit you read on the internet then don't walk around giving advice like you know shit..overall pretty great place though.

This guy can't help but be an idiot. He thinks he is something he is not. He probably is a very lonely person so he makes himself feel better by trying to hurt others. There are a lot of ignorant people like him in the world. I'm not back peddling. I am simply restating what the original topic was about since you got so bent out of shape about being a ignorant person. Starting with high quality fem seeds is a sure fire way to almost guarantee success. I could give a fuck about what you think of clone only strains. I never said they couldn't have good genetics. How many clone only strains are there. Not many compared to the just as high in quality hybrids and or their strains that have been made breeding the clone only strains into their seeds. Ever hear of the clone a Bly blue dream strain and the HSO blue dream seeds?

Please do us all a favor sunshine and quit being such an angry child.

Great people here, a shitload of great growers,tons of useful information, you just cant be a pussy. If you have LeBron james type feelings,you're not going to like it here. Also should only speak on experience,if your just relaying some noob shit you read on the internet then don't walk around giving advice like you know shit..overall pretty great place though.

You are not one of them. You are a nobody.

 

[GuerillaGanjaGrower]

Why are you quoting me with this^ nonsense? I'd ask you to leave me out of any childish namecalling,

Wasn't quoting you. Never called you a name.

 

[Dr. Who]

What Does medium mean ?

Medium - media lol.....he means what are you going to grow in! Soil, coco, full on hydro, etc.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Only been growing for a few months now, haven't even made it to my 4th week of flower yet, and I gotta say the weed growing community fucking sucks big hairy donkey balls. I thought we were supposed to all be "medicated", seems like every fucking grower on earth needs to get a lil high off their own supply. This petty argument bullsh is in EVERY fucking thread. Not just here either, I see it on Reddit/r/microgrowery and /r/autoflowers /r/herbgrow, ICmag, 420 magazine, Growweedeasy etc.

Yea, yea I know, "fuck off newbie", well I am. Peace ya'll and have a good night.

stoners are grumpy fucks man.
always have been.
In my (ample) smoking experience, its MUCH easier to keep a pleasant and even mood when NOT smoking pot regularly.
Hence a good dry-out period, also that first high when it's been a couple days?
BLAST...
another thing to note is for some reason the majority of growers are males, and we simply don't get along with other males well.

On topic though, clones will, in my opinion out produce seeds simply on the fact that a monocrop will always do that, you can fit in uniform plants, maximizing not only the time involved but the space too.
I always had higher numbers when monocropping from clone.
But there is always something to be said when you find a special phenotype that not everyone has, or even better, when you pollen chuck on your own to create a unique strain NOBODY has.
but shit I got almost a lb more on average when I monocropped from clone.
plus it takes a long ass time to sex them, and then cull the males, and possibly undesired females.
but i'm getting off topic

 

[GuerillaGanjaGrower]

stoners are grumpy fucks man.
always have been.
In my (ample) smoking experience, its MUCH easier to keep a pleasant and even mood when NOT smoking pot regularly.
Hence a good dry-out period, also that first high when it's been a couple days?
BLAST...
another thing to note is for some reason the majority of growers are males, and we simply don't get along with other males well.

On topic though, clones will, in my opinion out produce seeds simply on the fact that a monocrop will always do that, you can fit in uniform plants, maximizing not only the time involved but the space too.
I always had higher numbers when monocropping from clone.
But there is always something to be said when you find a special phenotype that not everyone has, or even better, when you pollen chuck on your own to create a unique strain NOBODY has.
but shit I got almost a lb more on average when I monocropped from clone.
plus it takes a long ass time to sex them, and then cull the males, and possibly undesired females.
but i'm getting off topic

You make good points about cloning a special pheno. I have nothing against clones. But you don't need to waste time sexing with fem seeds

 

[Dr. Who]

Starting with dank ass feminized genetics is the fool proof way of getting great yields and potency. Clones can bring in pests and diseases.

Ignorance !

Ed Rosenthal talks about clone degeneration in his books. I think I will believe what he says.

Ed has it wrong as far as what he thinks degeneration IS!

Take a seed plant OR a clone plant and keep cloning those down stream.....You WILL find a difference from what you started with when given from another and they're grown out . This is an environmental "shift" ! The way you run your op is inherently different from where either originated from! the plant will contain a Sativa and Indica balance. This balance from the original breading carried out in particular environmental conditions can and does "change" the "look" of the plant quite regularly!
If you run hotter it may begin to run thinner and more taller like a Sativa or vice versa.... You should understand that ANY environmental factor can cause the plant to "shift" it's structure or look as it grows. Successive grows under the same conditions will result in the "shift" staying more in place.

Now give this "shifted" strain to someone who grows in the "as close to it's original" environ as it came from, and it will 'shift" again to be more like the original form. The closer to where it came (condition wise), the closer to the original clone it will "shift" back to.

I say THIS is a VERY mistaken ideal for "clone degeneration" !!!!

I think @racerboy71 @RM3 @GuyLeDuche would agree here! (many others too)

Now then, as far as vigor.....I have not seen a difference twixt a seed or a clone. (unless you start getting into F5 or beyond seeds from breeding's......I feel very strongly as you get past F4-5 you begin to loose vigor in seeds and it gets worse the deeper you get)

In many, many tests. FEM seeds will out yield straight runs. It would not be a big jump to conclude that clones from each would STILL show that behavior!

I see what you are saying but many clone only strains are used to make seeds of those strains and then those are cloned and so on and on and on....

So? Your point is what? I think your confused on something here. I don't get what your trying to point out.
You mean S1's are made from clone only strains and those seeds are now cloned right?
Again, so what? A clone is a genetic copy of the host - The same DNA. It does not change! If your thinking of "genetic shifting". You MUST have an "out of line" breeding to change it genetically!

I wasn't acting like anything. There are plenty of growers that have discussed this issue with a lot more knowledge than you. You know more than Ed who has traveled the world growing this plant, has more masters degrees than you can count to. When did you publish multiple books on the science of growing cannabis? Where is your SCIENCE to back up your ignorance. I was simply saying that with all of the breeding that has been done a clone only strain is not really needed.

Writing a book makes you an author, not an expert on a subject. Ed does not breed, nor does Ed understand the genetic limits of the subject...... Every author makes mistakes.....He should have said "I believe but could be wrong" as all he did was make an "observation" without scientific backing....

That said, I have spoken to him and respect his work, greatly! Jorge and Gregg made mistakes too! I still respect them!

You understand now better? I gave you the "science" your looking for!

Doc

 

[greasemonkeymann]

You make good points about cloning a special pheno. I have nothing against clones. But you don't need to waste time sexing with fem seeds

of course you don't.. but you do have to wait for them to be sexually mature, and that takes time, at least a month or so.
In a month I can have a WHOLE vege session, ready to flower.
do that two three times a yr and you get a whole extra harvest man
but I like to have males in case I see a stud i'd like to chuck with

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Writing a book makes you an author, not an expert on a subject. Ed does not breed, nor does Ed understand the genetic limits of the subject...... Every author makes mistakes.....He should have said "I believe but could be wrong" as all he did was make an "observation" without scientific backing....

That said, I have spoken to him and respect his work, greatly! Jorge and Gregg made mistakes too! I still respect them!

You understand now better? I gave you the "science" your looking for!

Doc

Ed Rosenthal has mentioned female birth control pills, as well as some other questionable things.
BUT that being said
Ed was a pioneer though, him, jorge Cervantes, and mel frank taught me A LOT back in the 90s
when there was NO such thing as cannabis studies (other than the typical propaganda from the gov studies)
Anyways.
You are right on, there really is no such thing as a cannabis scientist/specialist other than what we are doing right now
so in 10, or 15 yrs, theres gonna be a LOT more information.
Once it's actually funded by legit backing.

 

[RM3]

Only been growing for a few months now, haven't even made it to my 4th week of flower yet, and I gotta say the weed growing community fucking sucks big hairy donkey balls. I thought we were supposed to all be "medicated", seems like every fucking grower on earth needs to get a lil high off their own supply. This petty argument bullsh is in EVERY fucking thread. Not just here either, I see it on Reddit/r/microgrowery and /r/autoflowers /r/herbgrow, ICmag, 420 magazine, Growweedeasy etc.

Yea, yea I know, "fuck off newbie", well I am. Peace ya'll and have a good night.

Not at my place

 

[bobtokes]

Ed Rosenthal talks about clone degeneration in his books. I think I will believe what he says.

and the seed producers would lose out lol

 

[mauricem00]

I have tried cloning but i'm not very good at it. the plants that did develop roots took 3 or 4 weeks and a lot of care to do so.growing from seed was just as fast for me but as I said i'm not very good at cloning. might work better if I learned a better way of doing it.

 

[jakkoutthebxx]

stoners are grumpy fucks man.
always have been.
In my (ample) smoking experience, its MUCH easier to keep a pleasant and even mood when NOT smoking pot regularly.
Hence a good dry-out period, also that first high when it's been a couple days?
BLAST...
another thing to note is for some reason the majority of growers are males, and we simply don't get along with other males well.

On topic though, clones will, in my opinion out produce seeds simply on the fact that a monocrop will always do that, you can fit in uniform plants, maximizing not only the time involved but the space too.
I always had higher numbers when monocropping from clone.
But there is always something to be said when you find a special phenotype that not everyone has, or even better, when you pollen chuck on your own to create a unique strain NOBODY has.
but shit I got almost a lb more on average when I monocropped from clone.
plus it takes a long ass time to sex them, and then cull the males, and possibly undesired females.
but i'm getting off topic

Are you growing indoor or outdoors?

 

[jakkoutthebxx]

I have tried cloning but i'm not very good at it. the plants that did develop roots took 3 or 4 weeks and a lot of care to do so.growing from seed was just as fast for me but as I said i'm not very good at cloning. might work better if I learned a better way of doing it.

So growing from a seed is easier?