BJB holders voltage spec is too low for series configuration

[BOBBY_G]

most are rated 60V

@robincnn contacted them recently and they said its a no go to run them in series where the voltage exceeds the 60V rating with more than one cob in series

ideals are still rated at 250V but the BJBs seem like a poor option for the common constant-current cobs-in-series setup

 

[Greengenes707]

http://www.bjb.com/index.php?pid=402155&lid=4

 

[BOBBY_G]

yup and heres the exact same part on their site listed at 60A

http://www.bjb.com/index.php?pid=401982&lid=10

we need some clarification from BJB

in any case 150V is still out of spec in many setups including any 3070 with more than 4 cobs in series (common below 1400 mA)

If were looking at actual open circuit voltage of a driver (wise from a design perspective), the following popular drivers are just a few which fail the 150V cutoff:

HLG-185H-C500 400V
HLG-185H-C700 286V
HLG-185H-C1050 190V
HLG-240H-C700 360V
HLG-240H-C1050 241V
HLG-240H-C1400 182V
HLG-320H-C700 435V
HLG-320H-C1050 311V
HLG-320H-C1400 234V
HLG-320H-C1750 187V
HLG-320H-C2100 156V

 

[Malocan]

Hi,
guys could you please help me, if you have time and mood. I think my question fit good here
i wanne build a new light with citizen clu058 1825chips. This cobs use around 50volt(+/-)@1050ma.

I bought allready the cobs(10*clu058 1825) and and the driver(2*HLG-320H-C1050b),
i bought even cob holders http://www.bjb.com/index.php?pid=373481&languageid=3 .

My plan was to run 5cobs on one HLG-320H-C1050b, but now i noticed that this cob holders cant hold this voltage :/
What should i do now Maybe i should build the light without cob holders?

What is with my wire for the cobs? does that fit for my plan?
http://www.elektroversand-schmidt.de/product_info.php?cPath=23_2408_2436_2437&products_id=9252

It says: rated voltage 300/500 V .Is This 300/500V like AC/DC, if yes then it should work or?

Thanks for Help

 

[BOBBY_G]

voltage is fine on that wire. i cant translate that site but i see " 0,5 " which i hope means 0.5mm wire which is all those holders can handle.

you can do 3 in series and be close to 150

a better bet to stay within the cob holder spec would be running them in parallel with a HLG-320H-48B

 

[Malocan]

Thanks,
the problem is i bought allready the drivers(2*HLG-320H-C1050b). I dont wanne buy some new driver if its not really necessary.
It should be no problem to build my light without the cob holders or? The COB have 2 holes, i could screw it directly on the heatsink.

Or alternative plan is, i have 5 * elg-150-c1400b(54 ~ 107V) which i dont use at the moment. I could use them for the citizen, but then i need to build 5 lights(each has 2 cobs) instead of 2lights(each with 5cobs).

What would you guys do:/ im not sure

HLG-320H-C1050 229V
HLG-320H-C1400 183V
HLG-320H-C1750 152V

you have a mistake here, you mixed up the voltage numbers from the datasheet.

 

[BOBBY_G]

corrected and added C2100

yeah you can attach right to heatsink if you can solder just watch your torque on those bolts

 

[BOBBY_G]

the only other thing i hate about the BJBs is it appears the wire connection is permanent unlike an ideal which can be removed by putting a paperclip in the other hole

 

[Malocan]

Bobby do you use parallel drivers for your lights? have this parallel drivers any big disadvantages?
Looks like the parallel drivers fit much better too the clu058-1825. Maybe i should buy one... or two

 

[BOBBY_G]

only disadvantage if you are running a small number of cobs and the connection to one of them becomes intermittent. the rest of your cob/heatsink combos need to be able to handle the current

like with a 320 if you had 3 CXBs at 107ish W if you drop one the other 2 jump to 160W and at best is prob too much heat to soak up and at worst blows the other cobs right out.

if you have 6@50W and drop one the others go to 5@60W, not a big deal

also your wiring is almost doubled but not a big deal. ideal 8-position part #30-090J, or marine bus bars, or theres prob some 6 to 8-conductor wagos as well

 

[Malocan]

Thanks bobby for your HELP.
I think i will buy 2 HLG-320H-54b or 2 HLG-320H-48b. Which would be the better choose for 5*clu058-1825 for one driver?
I would like to run one cob around 50watt.

HLG-320H-54b = 5,95A / 5 COBS = 1,19A per cob
HLG-320H-48b = 6.7A / 5COBS = 1,34A per cob

could you recommend which driver i should take, i dont know really how parallel driver works, so i cant use the datasheet:/ the only thing i now is, that they share the ampere and not the voltage.

 

[BOBBY_G]

the "A" version can go up to 52W by adjusting the pot. which gets you to 1550 mA on the 1825

"B" version i dunno. says it tops out at 48V (according to the datasheet) which wont light up an 1825

the 54V seems like a better bet if youre running above 1500mA (where the citis shine, imo). my bet is in real world it can throw a bit more voltage a reduced current but i may be off, further testing is in order

 

[Malocan]

Does it work like this for the HLG-320H-54b if i connect 5cobs, without to adjust the driver:

5,95A / 5 COBS = 1,19A per cob
At 1,19A per cob it use around 51,1V(Tc=25C)
1,19A*51,1V(Tc=25C)=60,8W
60,8W * 5cobs= 304 W

?

Maybe even more Watt when the driver has more Ampere then 5,95A.

 

[BOBBY_G]

you got it. since you are maxing out the current with that driver you should be in 'constant current region and of course your 304W is a little less than the rated 320W as 51.1V<54V

if you want to max out the 320W series to 320W you need the HLG-320H-48A (i dont think the B can get there without the adjustable voltage pot). then you should top out at 5 cobs @ ~1255 mA/51.2V/64.3W for a total of the rated 321.6W

 

[JorgeGonzales]

You know, I discussed this with robin too, and I don't understand this at all. The voltage potential across the holders is less than 60V running in series, and while there could be concerns about arcing to -ground- underneath, it's a full 1 mm air gap from connector to heatsink, which is much too large for this to happen.

I'm dubious until I hear an explanation, although I might have just given one. Could be a UL minimum gap requirement.

Having said that, I'd certainly edit my build thread to reflect this, if I could. Which I can't. If somebody dies, you know who to blame.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

I guess the good news is the 1825 can handle the extra current in a parallel setup, especially with 5 cobs. But the lack of holder or optics options if kinda a bummer.

I have Ideals and BJBs here for the 048 series, so that's a non-issue for smaller cobs, although the Ideals are clunky and expensive.

 

[robincnn]

I told them the voltage across each COB Holder is 51VDC, however the voltage on driver DC will be total 4x 51=204VDC for 4 cobs
their response was BJB holder would not be able to exceed the voltages I need.

I think the issue is the contact design. It could arc and burn out. May just impacts reliability or could be an issue with UL 'minimum gap requirement.' like Jorge said.

I'd certainly edit my build thread to reflect this, if I could. Which I can't.

You can contact mods. They will update your old posts if you want to correct something or add new information.

yup and heres the exact same part on their site listed at 60A
http://www.bjb.com/index.php?pid=401982&lid=10

That is odd. it is the same part number but different ratings.

47.319.2155.50 for CXA/CXB 30xx 60V or 150V . 2 conflicting different datasheet
47.319.4160.50 for CLU05X 150V
47.319.2033.50 for CLU04X 60V
47.319.2314.50 for CLU04X 60V

47.319.2033.50 and 47.319.2314.50 say CL-U044/U46 and CL-L040/042 but they same the same cob size and same +/- position so it should work fine.

 

[PurpleBuz]

maybe just switch to te connectivity holders ? the lumawise cob holders are rated for 300VDC
not sure which models fit what.

 

[BOBBY_G]

You know, I discussed this with robin too, and I don't understand this at all. The voltage potential across the holders is less than 60V running in series, and while there could be concerns about arcing to -ground- underneath, it's a full 1 mm air gap from connector to heatsink, which is much too large for this to happen.

I'm dubious until I hear an explanation, although I might have just given one. Could be a UL minimum gap requirement.

Having said that, I'd certainly edit my build thread to reflect this, if I could. Which I can't. If somebody dies, you know who to blame.

i feel ya. in an extreme perspective of thinking, the potential from the holder contact to the chip contact is zero and the (acceptable, less than 60V) voltage drop occurs entirely across the chip and again zero potential between the chip and the contact on the other side

but contacts are rated for current, where voltage rating has 100% to do with the maximum voltage a piece of hardware, receptacle, or in this case holder is rated to isolate relative to a nearby ground, to prevent arcing as you suggested

so in this case where you have a potential of 200-400V between the holder and the chassis/heatsink it seems prudent to consider that. and keep in mind ideal specifically touts that theirs are 250V rated and suitable for series installs, so at least ideal is thinking in open circuit voltage to ground perspective.

in my mind the fact that they either "rerated" or typo'd the 3070 holders from 60 to 150V (and the fact that there are shitloads of low-current high voltage series setups out there with BJBs), means it is "probably" ok in a proper install in the 150-200V range but id be really leery to run it in a setup with 250-400+V open circuit voltage.

i guess the worst case scenario is a chip ground fault (on a metal base chip i.e. most mfrs. other than the ceramic crees) and suddenly youre putting 400V to ground, you'd think the driver would overcurrent fault in this case but what would happen right before that?

 

[BOBBY_G]

I told them the voltage across each COB Holder is 51VDC, however the voltage on driver DC will be total 4x 51=204VDC for 4 cobs
their response was BJB holder would not be able to exceed the voltages I need.

I think the issue is the contact design. It could arc and burn out. May just impacts reliability or could be an issue with UL 'minimum gap requirement.' like Jorge said.


You can contact mods. They will update your old posts if you want to correct something or add new information.


That is odd. it is the same part number but different ratings.

47.319.2155.50 for CXA/CXB 30xx 60V or 150V . 2 conflicting different datasheet
47.319.4160.50 for CLU05X 150V
47.319.2033.50 for CLU04X 60V
47.319.2314.50 for CLU04X 60V

47.319.2033.50 and 47.319.2314.50 say CL-U044/U46 and CL-L040/042 but they same the same cob size and same +/- position so it should work fine.

note that although all the BJBs have similar design, apart from the cxb30xx anomaly they are all rated at 60V except for the clu05X... which is a 100V chip by design. the rest are all 36-50V.

so maybe the holders can handle 150V or more but they never felt the need to test/certify for it until they had a chip of high voltage

i wish there were ideal chiploks for the clu05x.......