How to ACTUALLY make America great again

[Ace Yonder]

I don't really care what they say, they did not invent the Nolan chart. No terms were redefined. Leftwing and Rightwing refer to socioeconomic status and thought.

Your belief that a line from conservative to liberal can encompass all social positions is atrocious.

I love how, even thought I repeatedly have said that I think that there need to be MORE dimensions to the graph, and that even two axes is inadequate, you still think, because I posted ONE picture (even though I have posted about 5 multi-axis graphs from ontheissues which I feel are much more accurate as well) that i am somehow advocating for a single line graph. Do you really have that much trouble understanding what I am saying? And yes, they ARE redefining things, they are NOT using a Nolan graph, because THIS is a Nolan graph.

Note the distinct lack of the words "Left" and "Right", and the lack of correlating them to a single axes. Notice how Progressive and Conservative, Libertarian and Authoritarian are QUADRANTS, not the axes. The (unlabeled) axes measure Economic and Social policies.

This is the graph that Ontheissues uses, which is almost identical to the Nolan graph, which I have posted much more of, and fitting the candidates accurately on Nolan-type graphs looks like this (Again, notice how the axes are defined as Social and Economic, and Left, Right, Libertarian, and Populist are quadrants, because they are not binary concepts):
Clinton:



Sanders:




Trump:



And another alternative, not exactly a Nolan graph, this is actually very similar to the Political Compass but with the nomenclature corrected.

 

[StevieBevie]

 

[abandonconflict]

I love how, even thought I repeatedly have said that I think that there need to be MORE dimensions to the graph, and that even two axes is inadequate, you still think, because I posted ONE picture (even though I have posted about 5 multi-axis graphs from ontheissues which I feel are much more accurate as well) that i am somehow advocating for a single line graph. Do you really have that much trouble understanding what I am saying? And yes, they ARE redefining things, they are NOT using a Nolan graph, because THIS is a Nolan graph.

This is kinda where I TL;DR'd you because you're rambling. You keep repeating that to substitute Left v Right with Cap v Soc is a redefinition of terms but you're incorrect. I never said I thought that the "politicalcompass.com" version of the Nolan chart was authoritative and I'm not really looking to defend it. However it is FAR superior to your liberal v conservative chart, which I have continuously criticized. If you're done defending it, then we can discuss how soc vs cap is synonymous with left v right and more to the point, you can relax, have a toke and stop taking yourself so seriously. If you can't handle frustration, I suggest you learn to back down when you're wrong.

In this case, you're wrong. Your Liberal vs Conservative graph is retarded. You're also wrong about Left vs Right not being synonymous with Socialist vs Capitalist. However, I'm not unreasonable and I am unwilling to have a discussion about this second part. As to the first, you're flat out wrong and I was completely correct in my assessment of your graph. It is in fact asinine.

I don't follow your posts, so I don't really care what other graphs you post. The first thing I said to you in this thread was that the graph you posted was retarded. In fact I wasn't even rude. I said "I'm sorry but..." You're just bent out of shape and trying to get the last word, moving the goalposts. The fact of the matter is that a two axis chart is much better than the Liberal vs Conservative shit you posted.

You fucking posted it, not me. You then defended it against the two axis grid on the basis that you disagree with the wording of the horizontal axis. I don't mind labeling the horizontal axis as Socialist vs Capitalist, but Left vs Right is also correct. So you can see here we're left with very little to disagree on. So relax, we'll get along better if you can handle that your Liberal vs Conservative bullshit was summarily criticized, instead of these long winded emotional rants.

 

[Ace Yonder]

This is kinda where I TL;DR'd you because you're rambling.

And now I see why you have never figured out what I'm saying. I feel no need to discuss anything with someone who can't be bothered to even listen to what I have to say. You just form your opinions based on the first thing you hear, and ignore everything else. That's fine, I'm just not gonna waste my time and effort discussing something with someone who is too lazy or too disrespectful to even read it.

 

[abandonconflict]

View attachment 3723932

This is pretty stupid too. Bolshevism is a nonspecific ideology named for a specific group of people who subverted a specific revolution in a specific country and is never going to be a suitable label for any other ideology.

And now I see why you have never figured out what I'm saying. I feel no need to discuss anything with someone who can't be bothered to even listen to what I have to say. You just form your opinions based on the first thing you hear, and ignore everything else. That's fine, I'm just not gonna waste my time and effort discussing something with someone who is too lazy or too disrespectful to even read it.

By the way, that Liberal vs Conservative graph was retarded. Welcome to the Politics section.

 

[Ace Yonder]

This is pretty stupid too. Bolshevism is a nonspecific ideology named for a specific group of people who subverted a specific revolution in a specific country and is never going to be a suitable label for any other ideology.

By the way, that Liberal vs Conservative graph was retarded.

And so is everything put out by Political Compass. Now we understand each other.

 

[abandonconflict]

And so is everything put out by Political Compass. Now we understand each other.

Except you're all sore in the glutes over it, just like you were when I pointed out how racist Teddy Roosevelt was.

 

[ttystikk]

And so is everything put out by Political Compass. Now we understand each other.

Funny how the entire rest of the politico economic academic establishment thinks that politicalcompass.org is pretty much on the money, with lots of people with actual qualifications in their fields all in agreement.

Which leaves you hip deep in bullshit, snowed by those with a vested interest in keeping you confused and actually working against your own best interests.

Now that you've been educated as to the actual terminology and their meanings, you can either keep huffing the vapors you're being fed, or you can put your thinking cap on and FOLLOW THE MONEY. Your choice will be evidence of whether you can learn new concepts when presented with facts- or if you're just stupid.

 

[Ace Yonder]

Funny how the entire rest of the politico economic academic establishment thinks that politicalcompass.org is pretty much on the money, with lots of people with actual qualifications in their fields all in agreement.

Which leaves you hip deep in bullshit, snowed by those with a vested interest in keeping you confused and actually working against your own best interests.

Now that you've been educated as to the actual terminology and their meanings, you can either keep huffing the vapors you're being fed, or you can put your thinking cap on and FOLLOW THE MONEY. Your choice will be evidence of whether you can learn new concepts when presented with facts- or if you're just stupid.

Ok, keep gobbling up their propaganda, I honestly don't give a fuck.

 

[Ace Yonder]

Except you're all sore in the glutes over it, just like you were when I pointed out how racist Teddy Roosevelt was.

And I maintain that he was better than every republican who came after him, an idea supported by his placement on nearly every historical review's list of greatest presidents. (Aggregate of all polls up to APSA 2015 by ranking each president's ratio of favourable to total pairwise comparisons, excluding ties: Teddy Roosevelt scores #5. The only republican who scored higher than him was Lincoln at #1) And once again, you take one aspect of something to obsess about to the exclusion of all else, trying to say that because I like him more than the shitty republicans who came after him, I must therefore consider him some sort of a hero. You seem to have a real problem with acknowledging the lesser of two evils, like how dare anyone rank the things that they don't like.

 

[abandonconflict]

better than every republican

 

[Ace Yonder]

Who came after him, yes. Lincoln was a better republican, but he was much earlier. The Republican party was a completely different thing back then than it is now (Democrats and Republicans have pretty much swapped positions on just about every issue from what they each were 150 years ago). Do you disagree? Do you think other republicans who came after him were better presidents? Which ones? (Spoiler, the vast majority of historians agree with me)

 

[abandonconflict]

Ok, keep gobbling up their propaganda, I honestly don't give a fuck.

But you posted a graph that goes from Liberal from Conservative as if it encompasses all political thought...

The Republican party was a completely different thing back then

Still a bunch of racists though, just Like Teddy Roosevelt.

 

[ttystikk]

Except you're all sore in the glutes over it, just like you were when I pointed out how racist Teddy Roosevelt was.

Good president. Still a racist. Product of his times. Still a racist.

These times are not those times and racism is no longer tolerable, as evidenced by the Chump's free fall in support.

Shameless plug for a new idea, it's so new either side can claim it;

We, all of us, black, white, immigrant, born here, of any religion or none at all rich and poor, we must come together. We NEED each other. Everyone is welcome to make a contribution to who we are and what we stand for as a nation, a country and an ideal and to lead by example- what they look or sound like is not a reason to fear or hate them, but an chance to see the world from another point of view, for collaboration and mutual enrichment.

Because division isn't working. So many factions fight amongst themselves, with the pie growing smaller, while a tiny few manipulate our divisions and orchestrate our fates behind the scenes, for their own profit, the future of you and yours be damned.

 

[ttystikk]

Who came after him, yes. Lincoln was a better republican, but he was much earlier. The Republican party was a completely different thing back then than it is now (Democrats and Republicans have pretty much swapped positions on just about every issue from what they each were 150 years ago). Do you disagree? Do you think other republicans who came after him were better presidents? Which ones? (Spoiler, the vast majority of historians agree with me)

What does this have to do with today?

 

[Ace Yonder]

But you posted a graph that goes from Liberal from Conservative as if it encompasses all political thought...

Actually I posted it to show that we can all pull meaningless graphs from websites and to emphasize the dramatic difference between Political Compass's graphs and how most Americans think about politics. I don't find it to be a particularly compelling graph, if fact I stand by the three two-axes, Nolan type graphs fromontheissues.org that I posted as being, so far, the most accurate representation of the candidates positions (As they use the correct nomenclature as well as basing their positions on actual voting records and policy stances, as opposed to "measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy." )

Still a bunch of racists though, just Like Teddy Roosevelt.

Never said they weren't, never said he wasn't. It's just not the ONLY thing I pay attention to. I can look past a thing I find distasteful to see the bigger picture.

 

[Ace Yonder]

What does this have to do with today?

Not a whole lot. You'd have to read the whole other conversation he just brought up to understand. I said Teddy Roosevelt was the last good republican and he blew his fucking lid about how racist he was (Which I never disputed, I agree that he was racist, all I said was that many people were racist back then, not just him, and he tried to use TR's racism as proof that no one else at the time was racist.)

 

[abandonconflict]

Not a whole lot. You'd have to read the whole other conversation he just brought up to understand. I said Teddy Roosevelt was the last good republican and he blew his fucking lid about how racist he was (Which I never disputed, I agree that he was racist, all I said was that many people were racist back then, not just him, and he tried to use TR's racism as proof that no one else at the time was racist.)

Actually I proved he was thoroughly white supremacist (his own quotes) and since he was also an imperialist, was quite responsible for the direction the US went and so was not simply a product of his times, but a shaper. To which, you distorted my argument, since you lack the logical wherewithal to explicate it. You then proceeded to insist that I misused the word explicate, since logic is not your strong suit.

Actually I posted it to show that we can all pull meaningless graphs from websites...

Except you went off on a butt hurt tantrum about how the two axis chart was flawed while you vigorously defended it.

I can look past a thing I find distasteful to see the bigger picture.

Yet you spent several hours distorting my arguments that day and have continued to do so now, and yet claim to @ttystikk that I blew my lid, when in fact I blew your lid until you got emotional and left because your distortions were failed.

You suck at logic.

 

[whitebb2727]

Shouldn't a pastor be paid for his work? How much they get paid is decided by the churchs population and is decided by the church deacons who vote on it. Pastor Joel Olsteen(the meme) pastors a church of like 3,000. And they give millions to charities. That's oneof the largest churches in America. Some pastors are actually dirt broke. It is true that money corrupts some pastors. They are still human. Jesus said money is the route to all evil.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Money is not. You need it to live.

 

[StevieBevie]

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Money is not. You need it to live.

I hate to say it but I love money and do need it to live..lol