Hillary can't be trusted

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bearkat42

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
That is an unprovable assumption. As this is the premise of your entire argument, the rest of what you said is moot.
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Of course it's "unprovable". they aren't fucking idiots. Please allow me to use your own words, which I happen to completely agree with by the way. You readily acknowledge that the "system" is inherently racist. You said "systemic racism in law enforcement, the judicial system and society as a whole". If this is indeed indicative of our judicial system, which I fully believe that it is, why is it such a stretch for you to believe that he knew that this would be the outcome. What other possible outcomes were there? Was law enforcement and the judicial system going to magically become less racist? No, black people were still going to be arrested and locked up disproportionately. The only difference now was that the penalties were going to be MUCH stiffer. They knew that they were going to stop some black kid and the kid was going to have one or two crack rocks in his pocket and he was going to receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 fucking years in prison. Just like they knew that the white boy that they occasionally pop out in the suburbs would need 100 times that amount of powder to get that very same sentence. Anything less, they were going to give him a stern talking to, and then call his parents to come and get him and take him home. The black kid has now had his life ruined because he's now a convicted felon, which means that he's almost completely unemployable, can't get public housing, and all of the other indecencies that come with being a convicted felon. White boy gets slapped on the wrists and sent home to get ready for college.

C'mon see4, how could they have not known that this would be the inevitable outcome? Take your blinders off for a second. You're smarter that this, man.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
If this is indeed indicative of our judicial system, which I fully believe that it is, why is it such a stretch for you to believe that he knew that this would be the outcome. What other possible outcomes were there?
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I think it is a stretch to immediately assume the Clinton's are racists who want nothing more than to bring down the black man. In fact, I find it to be a longer leap in logic than to think they were reacting to an increasing crime problem throughout the entire nation, not just the perceived black crime, and they mistakenly took the advice of law enforcement officials without due diligence.

bearkat42 said:
Was law enforcement and the judicial system going to magically become less racist? No, black people were still going to be arrested and locked up disproportionately. The only difference now was that the penalties were going to be MUCH stiffer. They knew that they were going to stop some black kid and the kid was going to have one or two crack rocks in his pocket and he was going to receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 fucking years in prison. Just like they knew that the white boy that they occasionally pop out in the suburbs would need 100 times that amount of powder to get that very same sentence.
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I don't agree. Law makers, make laws, law enforcement, enforces those laws. Nowhere in the crime bill does it say, black people shall receive mandatory sentences while white folk get free tickets to a nude bar. The discrimination is not a the level of the law, it is at the level of the enforcement. And it is a long shot to assume the authors and subsequent passers of this crime bill were/are inherently racist and looking to stick it to the black man. It is far less of a stretch to assume the law makers, as lawyers as they are, were looking to make a name for themselves with crime prevention, they mistakenly never took into account the systemic racial bias that still usurps our black populous.

That being said, the law is the law. If you are actually breaking the law, then you should actually receive a punishment. The problem is, law enforcement, attorneys and judges are still racially biased, and thusly tend to target poorer demographics more. The law itself doesn't necessarily need to change, the way it's enforced does.

My personally opinion is that drugs of any kind should not be illegal. Just as abortion should not be illegal and being able to marry whomever the fuck you want should also not be illegal. To each their own. Causing harm physically, emotionally and financially should be illegal acts and the color of your skin should not dictate the punishment for breaking such laws.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
VTMi'kmaq said:
Ok as soon as you take

1000 syrian refugees into your home and hometown. They need your brainwashing!!!!
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awwww, did you piss in your pants last night when trump told you to be super scared of all the foreigners?

attacks on our police
terrorism in our cities
violence in our streets
chaos in our communities
crime and violence that today afflicts our nation
Homicides last year increased
killings have risen by 50 percent
victims of shootings
killed in the Chicago area
police officers killed
illegal immigrants with criminal records
roaming free to threaten peaceful citizens
illegal immigrant families being released into our communities with no regard for public safety
border-crosser ended the life of an innocent young girl
killer was then released
sailors being forced to their knees by their Iranian captors at gunpoint
brought down in flames
the disasters unfolding today
left helpless to die at the hands of savage killers
radical Muslim
violence at home, war and destruction abroad
crying mothers who have lost their children
brutally executed.
continued threats and violence
Law officers have been shot or killed
police were gunned down
the barbarians of ISIS
brutal Islamic terrorism
women and children viciously mowed down
Islamic radicals
savagely murdered by an Islamic terrorist
ISIS
Islamic terror
immediately suspend immigration
killed by illegal immigrants
violence spilling across our border
Americans who have been so brutally murdered
wounded American families
the gangs and the violence
drugs pouring into our communities
human smuggling and violence
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Flaming Pie said:
All hillary and bill have to say is, oops my bad, and they come out squeaky clean. Its ridiculous.
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When that bill was written into law and passed through congress, 2/3 or the black caucus voted in favor of it. It was not then or even now a law written with the intent to suppress minorities. How the law is enforced and how the justice system uses it to incarcerate black people is definitely racist.

Definitely agree that the justice and enforcement systems of this country needs to be cleared out and re-worked from top to bottom. What Trump says he will do is more of the same with respect to "stopping crime". Without cleaning out the racist crud in the legal system, we can only expect more inequality in our system not less.

Basically, you are saying that Trump is 2016's equivalent to HillBill Clinton in 1994.

Trump is not to be trusted.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
When that bill was written into law and passed through congress, 2/3 or the black caucus voted in favor of it. It was not then or even now a law written with the intent to suppress minorities. How the law is enforced and how the justice system uses it to incarcerate black people is definitely racist.

Definitely agree that the justice and enforcement systems of this country needs to be cleared out and re-worked from top to bottom. What Trump says he will do is more of the same with respect to "stopping crime". Without cleaning out the racist crud in the legal system, we can only expect more inequality in our system not less.

Basically, you are saying that Trump is 2016's equivalent to HillBill Clinton in 1994.

Trump is not to be trusted.
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Right on point with that one Fog.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
Of course it's "unprovable". they aren't fucking idiots. Please allow me to use your own words, which I happen to completely agree with by the way. You readily acknowledge that the "system" is inherently racist. You said "systemic racism in law enforcement, the judicial system and society as a whole". If this is indeed indicative of our judicial system, which I fully believe that it is, why is it such a stretch for you to believe that he knew that this would be the outcome. What other possible outcomes were there? Was law enforcement and the judicial system going to magically become less racist? No, black people were still going to be arrested and locked up disproportionately. The only difference now was that the penalties were going to be MUCH stiffer. They knew that they were going to stop some black kid and the kid was going to have one or two crack rocks in his pocket and he was going to receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 fucking years in prison. Just like they knew that the white boy that they occasionally pop out in the suburbs would need 100 times that amount of powder to get that very same sentence. Anything less, they were going to give him a stern talking to, and then call his parents to come and get him and take him home. The black kid has now had his life ruined because he's now a convicted felon, which means that he's almost completely unemployable, can't get public housing, and all of the other indecencies that come with being a convicted felon. White boy gets slapped on the wrists and sent home to get ready for college.

C'mon see4, how could they have not known that this would be the inevitable outcome? Take your blinders off for a second. You're smarter that this, man.
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So, Trump has come out and said he will be tough on crime because increasing. In fact, crime is down compared to historical trends but OK, people are skeered. Just like 1994.

Isn't Trump's intended crackdown reminiscent of the crime bill back then? Won't it just feed more people into the racially biased court system and exacerbate the upside down relationship between prison population demographics and the general population?

How are Hillary's proposed policies worse than Trump's in this regard? Just exactly how does this make Hillary the worst of the two candidates at this time?

Not saying "Vote Hillary" to you, just asking why the pile-on to a candidate that is not posing the the threat that Trump poses.
 
bearkat42

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
I think it is a stretch to immediately assume the Clinton's are racists who want nothing more than to bring down the black man. In fact, I find it to be a longer leap in logic than to think they were reacting to an increasing crime problem throughout the entire nation, not just the perceived black crime, and they mistakenly took the advice of law enforcement officials without due diligence.
Click to expand...
What you're doing though is using absolutes where absolutes aren't really necessary. This isn't a zero sum game. One doesn't have to be false for the other to be true. "Clinton's are racists who want nothing more than to bring down the black man." So that's the only way that this can be true? Pointy hats and burning crosses? We already know that hillary views black people as "Super predators" that they need to "bring to heel". What better way to bring us to heel than the '94 crime bill? It was devastatingly effective.

see4 said:
Nowhere in the crime bill does it say, black people shall receive mandatory sentences while white folk get free tickets to a nude bar.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. That is EXACTLY what the sentencing disparities between crack and powder cocaine says. It fact, it screams it.
see4 said:
The discrimination is not a the level of the law, it is at the level of the enforcement.
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Which is exactly why it was so effective. It was under the guise of "justice". It allows America to say that if you break the law, these are the penalties and they're the same for everyone. While completely ignoring the fact that the laws are being selectively enforced, and the crimes are being selectively prosecuted.
see4 said:
And it is a long shot to assume the authors and subsequent passers of this crime bill were/are inherently racist and looking to stick it to the black man. It is far less of a stretch to assume the law makers, as lawyers as they are, were looking to make a name for themselves with crime prevention, they mistakenly never took into account the systemic racial bias that still usurps our black populous.
Click to expand...
Why is that so hard to believe that the government is trying to "stick it to the black man"? The government has been "sticking it to the black man" since day 1 in this country. Was it hard to believe that the government intentionally infected black people with syphilis? Was it hard to believe that Nixon's "war on drugs" was created just to arrest black people? Was it hard to believe that Reagan pushed drugs to the black community? Was it hard to believe that the government knew about the dirty water in Flint? None of these are hard for me to believe, because they all happened. I don't see this any differently. And as far as your second point of law makers basically looking to make a name for themselves? Again, both can be true.

see4 said:
The problem is, law enforcement, attorneys and judges are still racially biased, and thusly tend to target poorer demographics more. The law itself doesn't necessarily need to change, the way it's enforced does.
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It seems like you're willing to blame everyone on earth BUT the clinton's
see4 said:
My personally opinion is that drugs of any kind should not be illegal. Just as abortion should not be illegal and being able to marry whomever the fuck you want should also not be illegal. To each their own. Causing harm physically, emotionally and financially should be illegal acts and the color of your skin should not dictate the punishment for breaking such laws.
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Agree completely.
 
bearkat42

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
So, Trump has come out and said he will be tough on crime because increasing. In fact, crime is down compared to historical trends but OK, people are skeered. Just like 1994.

Isn't Trump's intended crackdown reminiscent of the crime bill back then? Won't it just feed more people into the racially biased court system and exacerbate the upside down relationship between prison population demographics and the general population?

How are Hillary's proposed policies worse than Trump's in this regard? Just exactly how does this make Hillary the worst of the two candidates at this time?

Not saying "Vote Hillary" to you, just asking why the pile-on to a candidate that is not posing the the threat that Trump poses.
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I'm not here telling you that trump is any better than hillary. I'm not voting for either of them. Both of these candidates are unacceptable to me which, to me, says more about the the political SYSTEM in the United States than it does about either of these awful candidates.
trump is a fucking moron, we know this. His clown show was actually entertaining to me, until it wasn't. My feelings about hillary, however, are far more personal. Her husband's policies have devastated my community, and even though she was only the FLOTUS at the time, she was right there calling us "super predators" and talking about bringing us "to heel" like we're a bunch of fucking animals. My eyes burn when I watch her on television.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
I'm not here telling you that trump is any better than hillary. I'm not voting for either of them. Both of these candidates are unacceptable to me which, to me, says more about the the political SYSTEM in the United States than it does about either of these awful candidates.
trump is a fucking moron, we know this. His clown show was actually entertaining to me, until it wasn't. My feelings about hillary, however, are far more personal. Her husband's policies have devastated my community, and even though she was only the FLOTUS at the time, she was right there calling us "super predators" and talking about bringing us "to heel" like we're a bunch of fucking animals. My eyes burn when I watch her on television.
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I get it in that you were personally affected by what she said at the time. I can see how you have a legitimate and abiding reason to never ever forgive.

Your point regarding different treatment of crack cocaine is also telling. There was a pointed racist element in the bill there. I got it wrong a few posts back.

That said, Hillary or Bill never ran a trial or allowed juries to be stacked against black defendants. The court system-incarceration mill that processes black defendants into felons was going on before that bill, endures today and will endure beyond that. It will endure and in my opinion will have to be rooted out with independent prosecutors with its own judicial powers. I think the system is so corrupt that it can't right itself.

Not saying you should let bygones be bygones. Just saying that the Hillary of today is not promoting a war on crime. She is recognizing the bias in our system. I think there is hope in that. I don't see Hillary as a committed racist.

Trump is the one who today spouts racist rhetoric and promises to feed more fire to the engines of the justice system's incarceration mill. He is much more the threat today. I also don't think he's a moron or a clown. That's an act to entertain and draw in unthinking people who never voted before. Which is why he just might win. Also why I'm not just letting this dog about how Hillary wrote that crime bill and is a racist lie.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
Of course it's "unprovable". they aren't fucking idiots. Please allow me to use your own words, which I happen to completely agree with by the way. You readily acknowledge that the "system" is inherently racist. You said "systemic racism in law enforcement, the judicial system and society as a whole". If this is indeed indicative of our judicial system, which I fully believe that it is, why is it such a stretch for you to believe that he knew that this would be the outcome. What other possible outcomes were there? Was law enforcement and the judicial system going to magically become less racist? No, black people were still going to be arrested and locked up disproportionately. The only difference now was that the penalties were going to be MUCH stiffer. They knew that they were going to stop some black kid and the kid was going to have one or two crack rocks in his pocket and he was going to receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 fucking years in prison. Just like they knew that the white boy that they occasionally pop out in the suburbs would need 100 times that amount of powder to get that very same sentence. Anything less, they were going to give him a stern talking to, and then call his parents to come and get him and take him home. The black kid has now had his life ruined because he's now a convicted felon, which means that he's almost completely unemployable, can't get public housing, and all of the other indecencies that come with being a convicted felon. White boy gets slapped on the wrists and sent home to get ready for college.

C'mon see4, how could they have not known that this would be the inevitable outcome? Take your blinders off for a second. You're smarter that this, man.
Click to expand...
We have a black president and black cops in every level of command. It aint racism...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
LOL.

By "adults" you mean racial grievance mongers.

Black people are statistically less likely to be shot by police than whites. The problem is the government is involved in WAY too much of our lives.
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what statistics are you quoting?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
LOL.

By "adults" you mean racial grievance mongers.

Black people are statistically less likely to be shot by police than whites. The problem is the government is involved in WAY too much of our lives.
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awww, the poor little white supremacist cop wannabe is upset and so he spews blatantly false lies, like always.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

In 2015, The Post documented 990 fatal shootings by police, 93 of which involved people who were unarmed. Black men accounted for about 40 percent of the unarmed people fatally shot by police and, when adjusted by population, were seven times as likely as unarmed white men to die from police gunfire, The Post found.


it must suck to always be wrong, like you are. it's almost as if you make a purposeful, intentional effort to be so incredibly wrong literally all of the time. you are literally never right about anything, ever.

but hey, at least you have that white supremacy thing going for you, george!
 
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