ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Presumably the wrappers and coco mats preventing the blocks from algae are not helping, but I can't lose those.
Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1
- Thread starter ruwtz
- Start date
Wisher2
Well-Known Member
should be on your way soon
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Good on ya, mate! All work and no play makes for a dull day...
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
I'm still on a drinking bender but this crazy random fuckup party is slowing enough for me to pop a brief update here for those following me here.
Last week the veg room was bumped to 81F and 40% humidity and I was pulling 2-4 gallons of water from the dehu every day hence drying went pretty quickly. Healthy new roots emerging from the base were spotted in multiple plants, and I was very happy to see this!
By Sunday the blocks were sufficiently dry and I decided to do a thorough flush: all blocks were given RO water (bought from vending machine in 5gal buckets) with a light feed of around 400ppm at pH5.5. All bennies were cut out: just half strength solution of GH trio + CalMag + Hydroguard.
I decided to drop some cash on a decent pH meter: I went for the Bluelab pH and ppm probe combo for around $220, and I know it is money very well spent.
The runoff was measured from every single plant and some of the numbers were crazy: upwards of 2,000ppm in some cases and pH all over the place from low 5's to upper 6's and pH7.0. All those salts delivered by flooding were just saturating the blocks and building up. This was quite shocking and demonstrated a possible combination of overfeeding, overwatering and poor pH control due to both of these factors, plus unreliability of tap water. And although this showed in leaf symptoms, which were chronic in some places, somehow I think a full toxicity of one nute or another may have been avoided due to the poor pH causing total lockout of most things. A total unintended accident perhaps? But certainly a relief.
I flushed every plant as many times as was needed to get the pH and ppm's into the desirable range / reflecting the makeup of the flush feed. I considered this a hard reset on the medium.
All plants have since been sitting on wire racks in the table and I will continue to hand water and measure runoff until everything has stabilized. Most of the strains look very grateful for this TLC: we have good new growth, leaves look perky (if a little dark and shiny - excess Nitrogen??) and feel less papery, no new leaf damage/lesions as far as I can tell, but the best sign has been excellent new root growth in many more bases, and even exploding out of the sides behind the block wrapper. Lovely fluffy white roots with multiple capillaries!
Some of the plants look to be in shock, in particular the Larry OG's which were the worst affected and most poorly looking: they have been droopy since the flush 48hrs ago, and oddly some leaf edge curl reminiscent of N toxicity. I do hope these ones recover as these seeds were not cheap and I was most looking forward to enjoying this strain. I may have to settle for growing out and cloning for a proper flower run.
I have bought a Stealth 200gpd RO filter and this will be fitted tomorrow before refilling the res. I am fully convinced this is another solid purchase and will return on its investment in improved productivity. I know I will be happy to be avoiding chloramines, sodium, carbonates and other undesirables in this setup and I hope we will see an improvement in response from the plants whichever way we choose to feed and water.
All in all, the ability of these plants to grow in such poor conditions is a testament to to their tenacity and I feel really bad that I have made such basic mistakes early on.
I am confident we now have achieved the following:
[1] humidity under control
[2] an accurate way of measuring and full articulation of pH and ppm
[3] only be using in-house RO water
[4] bennies will be added only when needed and only when we are able to establish their usefulness in this particular system, which will require careful testing rather than blind faith.
I still have some work to do in designing an accurate feed schedule and I don't know by which factor I should be increasing the ppm solution based on size or time. I certainly won't be trusting basic feed charts, so if anyone wants to offer up how they designed dinner time for your plants I would love to hear it.
Peace all, this one's on me -
Ruwtz (drunked)
Last week the veg room was bumped to 81F and 40% humidity and I was pulling 2-4 gallons of water from the dehu every day hence drying went pretty quickly. Healthy new roots emerging from the base were spotted in multiple plants, and I was very happy to see this!
By Sunday the blocks were sufficiently dry and I decided to do a thorough flush: all blocks were given RO water (bought from vending machine in 5gal buckets) with a light feed of around 400ppm at pH5.5. All bennies were cut out: just half strength solution of GH trio + CalMag + Hydroguard.
I decided to drop some cash on a decent pH meter: I went for the Bluelab pH and ppm probe combo for around $220, and I know it is money very well spent.
The runoff was measured from every single plant and some of the numbers were crazy: upwards of 2,000ppm in some cases and pH all over the place from low 5's to upper 6's and pH7.0. All those salts delivered by flooding were just saturating the blocks and building up. This was quite shocking and demonstrated a possible combination of overfeeding, overwatering and poor pH control due to both of these factors, plus unreliability of tap water. And although this showed in leaf symptoms, which were chronic in some places, somehow I think a full toxicity of one nute or another may have been avoided due to the poor pH causing total lockout of most things. A total unintended accident perhaps? But certainly a relief.
I flushed every plant as many times as was needed to get the pH and ppm's into the desirable range / reflecting the makeup of the flush feed. I considered this a hard reset on the medium.
All plants have since been sitting on wire racks in the table and I will continue to hand water and measure runoff until everything has stabilized. Most of the strains look very grateful for this TLC: we have good new growth, leaves look perky (if a little dark and shiny - excess Nitrogen??) and feel less papery, no new leaf damage/lesions as far as I can tell, but the best sign has been excellent new root growth in many more bases, and even exploding out of the sides behind the block wrapper. Lovely fluffy white roots with multiple capillaries!
Some of the plants look to be in shock, in particular the Larry OG's which were the worst affected and most poorly looking: they have been droopy since the flush 48hrs ago, and oddly some leaf edge curl reminiscent of N toxicity. I do hope these ones recover as these seeds were not cheap and I was most looking forward to enjoying this strain. I may have to settle for growing out and cloning for a proper flower run.
I have bought a Stealth 200gpd RO filter and this will be fitted tomorrow before refilling the res. I am fully convinced this is another solid purchase and will return on its investment in improved productivity. I know I will be happy to be avoiding chloramines, sodium, carbonates and other undesirables in this setup and I hope we will see an improvement in response from the plants whichever way we choose to feed and water.
All in all, the ability of these plants to grow in such poor conditions is a testament to to their tenacity and I feel really bad that I have made such basic mistakes early on.
I am confident we now have achieved the following:
[1] humidity under control
[2] an accurate way of measuring and full articulation of pH and ppm
[3] only be using in-house RO water
[4] bennies will be added only when needed and only when we are able to establish their usefulness in this particular system, which will require careful testing rather than blind faith.
I still have some work to do in designing an accurate feed schedule and I don't know by which factor I should be increasing the ppm solution based on size or time. I certainly won't be trusting basic feed charts, so if anyone wants to offer up how they designed dinner time for your plants I would love to hear it.
Peace all, this one's on me -
Ruwtz (drunked)
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ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Blackjack, day 32, couple of days after flushing. Looking dense and low and wide and lush. I pruned around the bottom of the stem today to keep 'em prim.
They were topped about a week ago so those two new shoots are coming through strong. I'm leaving damaged leaves on as they can still do their thing for a while, however I doubt they will recover.
They were topped about a week ago so those two new shoots are coming through strong. I'm leaving damaged leaves on as they can still do their thing for a while, however I doubt they will recover.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Here's the Larry OG not looking as healthy, 2 days after flushing, still showing lots of droop and leaves papery dry.
Their ppm's and average pH read the worst after flush so its clear these were the sickest. Interestingly these blocks seem to have dried out quicker despite these plants being small and weak. We'll stick by them and see how they go over the next week or so.
Their ppm's and average pH read the worst after flush so its clear these were the sickest. Interestingly these blocks seem to have dried out quicker despite these plants being small and weak. We'll stick by them and see how they go over the next week or so.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Some good news!
Great to hear your finding and fixing and the system is improving.
My money is on the Larrys G's to recover if you watch the watering (id let them dry right out). Often the worst plants become the best producers.
Great to hear your finding and fixing and the system is improving.
My money is on the Larrys G's to recover if you watch the watering (id let them dry right out). Often the worst plants become the best producers.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
I let them dry out as far as i could and this was the view this morning. Beautifully healthy roots looking for food and water. This was typical for most of the Larry's which are improving greatly up top too.
Here's the rest of the table after this mornings' watering. That's two feeds in 4 days since flushing, both under 500ppm.
I think I can start upping this for the larger Blackjack and Tangie/Kosher girls.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Oh and here's the Stealth 200 RO filter attached to the wall under the table. I've run a pvc sleeve through the exterior wall with a hose fitting which, with a quick switchover of pipes, also doubles up as my res drain line.
I'm enjoying all these improvements!
I'm enjoying all these improvements!
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cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I want to be there, but i'm feeling pretty reluctant since it has taken me a week to get straight after overwatering/overfeeding etc.
After yesterday's watering some of the healthy Blackjack girls curled under and crinkled, and some leaves curled at the tip only and appeared dark in color, ergo N-tox. Conversely other new growth looks very light in pigment, suggesting the opposite.
It seems like they all have individual needs which I can only meet at this time by feeding manually, so the res is merely a water tank at this point until i'm confident all the girls on the table can manage the same feed schedule.
After yesterday's watering some of the healthy Blackjack girls curled under and crinkled, and some leaves curled at the tip only and appeared dark in color, ergo N-tox. Conversely other new growth looks very light in pigment, suggesting the opposite.
It seems like they all have individual needs which I can only meet at this time by feeding manually, so the res is merely a water tank at this point until i'm confident all the girls on the table can manage the same feed schedule.
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ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Also i'm going to pick up a CO2 monitor so I can record levels for this veg room since I have no intake or exhaust nor do I plan on putting in. If CO2 is being depleted quickly by these plants in between my presence and the door opening I will be adding CO2 at slightly higher than atmospheric conditions, something like 5-600ppm.
ruwtz
Well-Known Member
Based on the assumption that plants prefer higher humidity at warmer temps, and presuming I want to stay at 78F daytime, perhaps I should bring humidity up to 60% or more? I think in their struggle to stay hydrated in 55%RH the plants are wasting energy in drinking heavily, and possibly leading to slight toxicity.
This is a function of vapor pressure deficit on plants, right?
Presumably the reverse could also apply: reduce the daytime temp and maintain current 55%RH. Temps are up precisely to keep the girls drinking but if its going to make them even more sensitive to feeding than they already are then i'm not going to push them.
Where do you guys keep your veg RH for optimal plant metabolism?
This is a function of vapor pressure deficit on plants, right?
Presumably the reverse could also apply: reduce the daytime temp and maintain current 55%RH. Temps are up precisely to keep the girls drinking but if its going to make them even more sensitive to feeding than they already are then i'm not going to push them.
Where do you guys keep your veg RH for optimal plant metabolism?
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