Religious Nut-Jobs ...

ViRedd

New Member
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]


Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams “ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior?


Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech


Alexander Hamilton:
For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness…


Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry


John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.


Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

]
James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”


Noah Webster:
“ The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”

“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]


George Washington:
Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised some one hasn't attack them yet... of course, like Daniel Webster said, "The past at least is Secure."
 

ViRedd

New Member
Yeah, well I made the post for DankDude to read. Contrary to his assertions, there has been more than just one religious "nut-job" in our country's history. So far, no comment from the Dankster. ~lol~

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
You know I was referring to That Idiot George W Bush, he is a religious Nut Job, and I will venture to say that Sarah Palin may be one as well...
BTW How many of those you mentioned above were Presidents of the United States? 3 of them were, but they also knew not to push their faith off onto the public, unlike GW Bush.
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to have faith, but it is best to keep it to ones self....
So I have no questions. I will say that you just wasted your time posting this. You are so consumed with trying to prove those who don't think like you wrong that you can't see the forest for the trees.
Personally I believe in Separation of Church and State.

BTW the reason there was not a comment right away was Soon after I logged off I went down to Houston to pick my mom up from the Hospital.... So hold off your comments until you have all the facts Vi.
 

misshestermoffitt

New Member
People who believe that there is an invisible guy sitting on a throne in the sky who will punish you for all eternity in a burning lake of fire for breaking his rules, but he loves you at the same time, are doing way better drugs than I've ever come across.

Praying to the sky in a time of turmoil just shows how gullible people really are.
 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member
Journal of the Continental Congress, Thursday, September 12, 1782
Library of Congress site
Aitken's Bible endorsed by Congress. View this resolution:
page 573 | page 574
Original manuscript page 468 | page 469
The committee, consisting of Mr. [James] Duane, Mr. [Thomas] McKean and Mr. [John] Witherspoon, to whom was referred a petition memorial of Robert Aitken, printer, dated 21 January, 1781, respecting an edition of the holy scriptures, report,​
That Mr. Aitken has at a great expence now finished an American edition of the holy scriptures in English; that the committee have, from time to time, conferred with him attended to his progress in the work: that they also recommended it to the two chaplains of Congress to examine and give their opinion of the execution, who have accordingly reported thereon:​
The recommendation and report being as follows:​
Philadelphia, 1 September, 1782.
Rev. Gentlemen, Our knowledge of your piety and public spirit leads us without apology to recommend to your particular attention the edition of the holy scriptures publishing by Mr. Aitken. He undertook this expensive work at a time, when from the circumstances of the war, an English edition of the Bible could not be imported, nor any opinion formed how long the obstruction might continue. On this account particularly he deserves applause and encouragement. We therefore wish you, reverend gentlemen, to examine the execution of the work, and if approved, to give it the sanction of your judgment and the weight of your recommendation. We are with very great respect, your most obedient humble servants,​
(Signed) James Duane, Chairman,​
In behalf of a committee of Congress on Mr. Aitken's memorial.​
Rev. Dr. White and Rev. Mr. Duffield, chaplains of the United States in Congress assembled.​
REPORT.
Gentlemen, Agreeably to your desire, we have paid attention to Mr. Robert Aitken's impression of the holy scriptures, of the old and new testament. Having selected and examined a variety of passages throughout the work, we are of opinion, that it is executed with great accuracy as to the sense, and with as few grammatical and typographical errors as could be expected in an undertaking of such magnitude. Being ourselves witnesses of the demand for this invaluable book, we rejoice in the present prospect of a supply, hoping that it will prove as advantageous as it is honorable to the gentleman, who has exerted himself to furnish it at the evident risk of private fortune. We are, gentlemen, your very respectful and humble servants,​
(Signed) William White,
George Duffield.​
Philadelphia, September 10, 1782.​
Hon. James Duane, esq. chairman, and the other hon. gentlemen of the committee of Congress on Mr. Aitken's memorial.​

Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled, highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report, of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorise him to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.​
[Note 1: 1 The Committee's report, in the writing of John Witherspoon, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 19, I, folio 59. Duane's letter is on folio 65. White and Duffield's report on folio 63. Aitken's letter of September 9 submitting the work to Congress is in No. 78, I, folio 421. His letter of September 25, sending one of the first copies to Congress, is on folio 425.]



 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.




Where is the term "separation of Church and State"? Its not there, if it is the public desire to be there it needs to be amended to state that. The constitution is NOT a interpretable document. The most hotly debated clause in the Declaration on Constitution was the phrase 'pursuit of happiness' because it was open to interpretation.


I don't care if the State of Alabama puts the Ten Commandments in their courthouse.
Its up to the people of Alabama, not someone in California. If people who are predominatly Buddist wants to put a statue of Budda in their park, its up to them, not me. I'm not weak willed enough to be influenced by the visual.



As for GW Bush, I haven't been effected by his Jesus Jedi mind tricks, I don't know of any who have been, do you? Its just another justification for hatred.


I'm a constitutionalist, I beleive I can read the consitution and don't need someone to tell me what it really means as opposed to what is written.



And both the Repub's and Dem's have violated the constitution.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
The Point is that if the Religious people who seem to control the republican party had their way they would try and toss out the constitution and make this nation a Theocracy.
But I still stand by what I say about the separation of church and state. The Church should never be allowed to make public policy.
You can not legislate morality.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
It's called the establishment clause.That's where separation comes in.Establishment Clause of the First Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.




Where is the term "separation of Church and State"? Its not there, if it is the public desire to be there it needs to be amended to state that. The constitution is NOT a interpretable document. The most hotly debated clause in the Declaration on Constitution was the phrase 'pursuit of happiness' because it was open to interpretation.


I don't care if the State of Alabama puts the Ten Commandments in their courthouse.
Its up to the people of Alabama, not someone in California. If people who are predominatly Buddist wants to put a statue of Budda in their park, its up to them, not me. I'm not weak willed enough to be influenced by the visual.



As for GW Bush, I haven't been effected by his Jesus Jedi mind tricks, I don't know of any who have been, do you? Its just another justification for hatred.


I'm a constitutionalist, I beleive I can read the consitution and don't need someone to tell me what it really means as opposed to what is written.



And both the Repub's and Dem's have violated the constitution.
 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member
I don't know what laws have been passed by the church.

Certainly not abortion. Its true the religious right would like to change that. I am not a supporter of abortion but its not based on morality, but rather being a social issue.
No accountability of one's actions. And I'm not talking about rape, or dangers of childbirth. Its akin to the govt bailing out mismanaged companies. I'm not in favor of that either.
 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member
Stoney,

I know what is it called.
As interpreted by the supreme court.
The govt is to be a reflection of the people. IMO.
The constitution does not say that. So amend it to say it.

I believe that the Supreme Court job is to qualify laws passed by congress to meet the criteria of the Constitution not the other way around.

It the people who support it, pay for it and live there that should have a say.
As long as it doesn't violate the 'Bill of Rights' as they are written.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly religious by any stretch of the imagination, so don't 'tread on me' and don't care. (as pertaining to religious symbolism).

I mean how long did 'the right to bears arms' was not a right at all. A court judgment?

I could be wrong but I tend to believe the right to bear arms was to instill a little fear into our govt to prevent abuse.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I agree with the right to bear arms.....It always seems to be the religious right who says there is no separation, however.And there clearly is, if you read it.
Stoney,

I know what is it called.
As interpreted by the supreme court.
The govt is to be a reflection of the people. IMO.
The constitution does not say that. So amend it to say it.

I believe that the Supreme Court job is to qualify laws passed by congress to meet the criteria of the Constitution not the other way around.

It the people who support it, pay for it and live there that should have a say.
As long as it doesn't violate the 'Bill of Rights' as they are written.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly religious by any stretch of the imagination, so don't 'tread on me' and don't care. (as pertaining to religious symbolism).

I mean how long did 'the right to bears arms' was not a right at all. A court judgment?

I could be wrong but I tend to believe the right to bear arms was to instill a little fear into our govt to prevent abuse.
 

Spitzered

Well-Known Member
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

One last time, where is it clear?

This would be clear.....
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. And the display of religious symbolism and public property and by employees is prohibited;

No wiggle room, no debate, as it is written so shall it be.
 
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