medicropper07
Well-Known Member
What's happened to yorkie?
The UK Growers Thread!
- Thread starter lozac123
- Start date
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
No not palm trees and a few other fruit trees and plants at all, you are wrong.
You jumped into the first thing you saw that you thought agreed with your misconception and we all watched you do it, people other than me even pointed out that you were wrong and that you didn't read the pages properly.
NO defoliation technique works like you think it does on ANY plant.
It's used for other reasons.
(Did you just ignore the Cotton prior to harvest and Hops to stop any more vines growing?)
Because light penetration is not the factor affecting development, IAA distribution is just like you've already been told.
IAA distribution can only be manipulated by either changing the shape of the plant so it has no apical tip or moving the light source evenly to the sides of the plant, also like you've already been told.
The definition of 'Delusion' is.....
"Delusion
noun: delusion; plural noun: delusions
An idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument."
(I'm not the one who is deluded)
The facts about Auxins entirely prove my point about the way you think defoliation works.
If IAA is responsible for development (which it is, there's no denying) and IAA can only be manipulated by changing the shape of the plant or moving the light source (which it can) then how the fuck can defoliation for light penetration affect IAA development?
Do you even logic!?
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The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
Some info for you to read proving defoliation does NOT do what you think it does and is NOT used like you think it is used, especially in the plants stated......
Palms
"Pruning is one of the most misunderstood aspects of palm culture. Correctly pruning any plant or tree can benefit the growth and health of the plant. Maintained correctly, palms are low maintenance trees. For some reason, some people believe that they can indiscriminately hack at palms, including the periodic removal of most or nearly all of the fronds (leaves), several times each year, and not harm the tree. Palms are not an exception to good pruning rules. Poor pruning techniques will harm any plants or trees, including palms.
There is a misconception that the more a palm is pruned, the faster it will grow. This is not true. Many palm specialists discourage over-pruning except when transplanting certain species. Others simply recommend avoiding pruning as much as possible (www.broward.org.dio5200.htm).
All green fronds produce the food needed to grow properly, producing a healthy palm. The reduction of the green leaf area reduces food production and in turn,the health and growth of the palm is placed in jeopardy. The more green leaves any plant has the more growth that will be produced.
REASONS TO PRUNE PALMS
1. To remove dead or dying fronds that might harbor insect pests, such as roaches and scorpions.
2. To remove hiding places for other pests such as rats.
3. To remove potential fire hazards in urban areas near homes and other buildings.
4. For safety reasons; so that views from driveways,sidewalks and safety signs are clear. Blocked views are most often caused by planting palms in the wrong places.
5. To prevent damage to buildings and walls during high winds. Planting palms too close to a building can cause damage to the structure. Palms don't need to be protected from high winds by pruning. After Hurricane Andrew, the few trees left standing were palms. Most had few if any fronds left from the high winds, but they were still standing.
Some palms like the Canary Island Date Palm (Phoenix canariensis),have spiny armament that can be dangerous if people come in contact with them. These spines should be removed when the palm is still small and if it is near walkways or driveways.
6. Never top palms. Most palms grown in southern Nevada are single-trunked, having only one growing point. Once that growing point or bud is damaged or killed so is the entire palm. Research in southern Nevada has shown that buds of Washingtonia and Phoenix palms are 18 to 24 inches down from the emergent point (or very top of the trunk). There is never any good reason to top a palm. Some people mistakenly think that topping will shorten a palm that has grown too tall or that it will make the palm branch like a regular tree. Both cases are false. A trunk can be removed from clumping palms such as the Chamaerops humilis or Mediterranean palms, and the rest of the palm will live (see removing trunks). However, topping is never an option.
7. When tall palms need pruning, hire a professional who uses ladders, cherry pickers (hydraulic lifts), and non-invasive climbing gear. In the perfect world, palms would not be planted where there is no access for the proper pruning equipment that is required to prune them when they become tall. Understand that climbing palm trees with spikes is dangerous. Homeowners who hire uninsured climbers that use spikes to climb palm trees may be opening themselves up to a liability if the climber falls from the tree. Spikes damage the trunks of palm trees, and may spread diseases from tree to tree when not sterilized.
8. Always use clean pruning equipment, including saws and pruning sheers. Chainsaws are difficult to clean and sterilize and should not be used to prune fronds from palms. Others recommend immersion of pruning saws in a 50/50 solution of bleach and water for 5 minutes. (Pfalzgraf 2000). Cleaning equipment in this manner will help prevent the spread of diseases such as Fusarium in date palms (Phoenix dactylifera).
9. When pruning once or twice a year, remove all dead or dying fronds. Never take off more green fronds than can be produced in a single year.
REASONS TO KEEP PRUNING TO A MINIMUM
1. Removing most of the leaves (fronds) yearly or more frequently weakens the palm and slows its growth. Mature fronds provide food for developing fronds, flowers, fruit, roots and storage reserves in the trunk (Banjerth 89 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
2. When green fronds are removed, the nutrients they would have produced are lost to the rest of the palm. Some nutrients move from older leaves to newer leaves as they die. With potassium (and to lesser extent other nutrients deficiency,) removal of older green or chlorotic leaves exacerbates deficiency. Nutrient deficiencies also cause narrowing of the trunk and decline in the size of the fronds. The palm must now obtain its potassium from younger leaves in the canopy. These previously green and healthy leaves will then become chlorotic and unsightly. Regular removal of potassium deficient leaves can eventually kill the palm. (Broschat 1994).
3. Palms must store sufficient reserves of starch in their trunks that can be mobilized to restore fronds in the event that a palm
experiences some type of stress such as fire, frost or defoliation by humans. Palms must have as many green fronds as possible to produce a continuous supply of food to grow, stay healthy and build storage reserves (www.ag.arizona.edu). Research has shown the need for a 2:1 ratio between juvenile and mature fronds in some palms
(Dalrymple 1994 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
4. Fronds may take 3 to 5 years to mature (Hilgeman 1951 in Pfalzgraf 2000). A large crown of leaves on a mature date palm with over 125 fronds may have taken 15 years to develop from the most juvenile frond to the most mature frond. This includes those primordial leaves in the bud that are not visible. (Pfalzgraf 2000).
5. Never prune for cosmetic purposes. Some people will prune Canary Island Date Palms (Phoenix canariensis) to look like a giant pineapple or will skin Fan Palms (Washingtonia robusta/filifera) to look like more tropical palms. Desert palms are not tropical, so it is best to accept that and not try to change them into something they are not.
6. Palms leaves are designed in a cantilever effect to facilitate survival in high winds. When too many fronds are removed, the palm can be more easily damaged (Pfalzgraf 2000). Immature fronds that have been robbed of the support and protection of mature fronds are more susceptible to wind damage, desiccation and structural failure.
7. Pruning green leaves from palms also adds to the waste load at landfills (Pfalzgraf 2000).
8. Research has shown that mature fronds are those found below the current year's blooms. When pruning, leave at least two rows of mature fronds, preferably more (Hilgeman1951 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
9. Never take off more leaves in one year than are produced during that time. Research done by E. J. H. Corner (1966) indicates that each species of palms has a set number of green live fronds with the same number of developing fronds inside the bud area of the palm. As a new frond emerges, the oldest frond dies. The age that a frond may attain will be determined by many factors including size of the mature palm, number of fronds produced, etc. The key factor is that only the palm knows when a frond needs to be pruned off, and that is when it is dying (yellow or brown). Unlike hardwood trees, palms cannot increase their canopy size with more leaves, like an oak or maple tree. As each new leaf opens, it will take the place of a dying leaf. The palm knows the exact amount of fronds needed for a healthy tree. When the palm reaches its ultimate height, the fronds will decrease in size and the tree will decline and die. Few cultivated palms die of old age. It is more likely they will die of cultivation or landscape mistakes."
Palms
"Pruning is one of the most misunderstood aspects of palm culture. Correctly pruning any plant or tree can benefit the growth and health of the plant. Maintained correctly, palms are low maintenance trees. For some reason, some people believe that they can indiscriminately hack at palms, including the periodic removal of most or nearly all of the fronds (leaves), several times each year, and not harm the tree. Palms are not an exception to good pruning rules. Poor pruning techniques will harm any plants or trees, including palms.
There is a misconception that the more a palm is pruned, the faster it will grow. This is not true. Many palm specialists discourage over-pruning except when transplanting certain species. Others simply recommend avoiding pruning as much as possible (www.broward.org.dio5200.htm).
All green fronds produce the food needed to grow properly, producing a healthy palm. The reduction of the green leaf area reduces food production and in turn,the health and growth of the palm is placed in jeopardy. The more green leaves any plant has the more growth that will be produced.
REASONS TO PRUNE PALMS
1. To remove dead or dying fronds that might harbor insect pests, such as roaches and scorpions.
2. To remove hiding places for other pests such as rats.
3. To remove potential fire hazards in urban areas near homes and other buildings.
4. For safety reasons; so that views from driveways,sidewalks and safety signs are clear. Blocked views are most often caused by planting palms in the wrong places.
5. To prevent damage to buildings and walls during high winds. Planting palms too close to a building can cause damage to the structure. Palms don't need to be protected from high winds by pruning. After Hurricane Andrew, the few trees left standing were palms. Most had few if any fronds left from the high winds, but they were still standing.
Some palms like the Canary Island Date Palm (Phoenix canariensis),have spiny armament that can be dangerous if people come in contact with them. These spines should be removed when the palm is still small and if it is near walkways or driveways.
6. Never top palms. Most palms grown in southern Nevada are single-trunked, having only one growing point. Once that growing point or bud is damaged or killed so is the entire palm. Research in southern Nevada has shown that buds of Washingtonia and Phoenix palms are 18 to 24 inches down from the emergent point (or very top of the trunk). There is never any good reason to top a palm. Some people mistakenly think that topping will shorten a palm that has grown too tall or that it will make the palm branch like a regular tree. Both cases are false. A trunk can be removed from clumping palms such as the Chamaerops humilis or Mediterranean palms, and the rest of the palm will live (see removing trunks). However, topping is never an option.
7. When tall palms need pruning, hire a professional who uses ladders, cherry pickers (hydraulic lifts), and non-invasive climbing gear. In the perfect world, palms would not be planted where there is no access for the proper pruning equipment that is required to prune them when they become tall. Understand that climbing palm trees with spikes is dangerous. Homeowners who hire uninsured climbers that use spikes to climb palm trees may be opening themselves up to a liability if the climber falls from the tree. Spikes damage the trunks of palm trees, and may spread diseases from tree to tree when not sterilized.
8. Always use clean pruning equipment, including saws and pruning sheers. Chainsaws are difficult to clean and sterilize and should not be used to prune fronds from palms. Others recommend immersion of pruning saws in a 50/50 solution of bleach and water for 5 minutes. (Pfalzgraf 2000). Cleaning equipment in this manner will help prevent the spread of diseases such as Fusarium in date palms (Phoenix dactylifera).
9. When pruning once or twice a year, remove all dead or dying fronds. Never take off more green fronds than can be produced in a single year.
REASONS TO KEEP PRUNING TO A MINIMUM
1. Removing most of the leaves (fronds) yearly or more frequently weakens the palm and slows its growth. Mature fronds provide food for developing fronds, flowers, fruit, roots and storage reserves in the trunk (Banjerth 89 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
2. When green fronds are removed, the nutrients they would have produced are lost to the rest of the palm. Some nutrients move from older leaves to newer leaves as they die. With potassium (and to lesser extent other nutrients deficiency,) removal of older green or chlorotic leaves exacerbates deficiency. Nutrient deficiencies also cause narrowing of the trunk and decline in the size of the fronds. The palm must now obtain its potassium from younger leaves in the canopy. These previously green and healthy leaves will then become chlorotic and unsightly. Regular removal of potassium deficient leaves can eventually kill the palm. (Broschat 1994).
3. Palms must store sufficient reserves of starch in their trunks that can be mobilized to restore fronds in the event that a palm
experiences some type of stress such as fire, frost or defoliation by humans. Palms must have as many green fronds as possible to produce a continuous supply of food to grow, stay healthy and build storage reserves (www.ag.arizona.edu). Research has shown the need for a 2:1 ratio between juvenile and mature fronds in some palms
(Dalrymple 1994 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
4. Fronds may take 3 to 5 years to mature (Hilgeman 1951 in Pfalzgraf 2000). A large crown of leaves on a mature date palm with over 125 fronds may have taken 15 years to develop from the most juvenile frond to the most mature frond. This includes those primordial leaves in the bud that are not visible. (Pfalzgraf 2000).
5. Never prune for cosmetic purposes. Some people will prune Canary Island Date Palms (Phoenix canariensis) to look like a giant pineapple or will skin Fan Palms (Washingtonia robusta/filifera) to look like more tropical palms. Desert palms are not tropical, so it is best to accept that and not try to change them into something they are not.
6. Palms leaves are designed in a cantilever effect to facilitate survival in high winds. When too many fronds are removed, the palm can be more easily damaged (Pfalzgraf 2000). Immature fronds that have been robbed of the support and protection of mature fronds are more susceptible to wind damage, desiccation and structural failure.
7. Pruning green leaves from palms also adds to the waste load at landfills (Pfalzgraf 2000).
8. Research has shown that mature fronds are those found below the current year's blooms. When pruning, leave at least two rows of mature fronds, preferably more (Hilgeman1951 in Pfalzgraf 2000).
9. Never take off more leaves in one year than are produced during that time. Research done by E. J. H. Corner (1966) indicates that each species of palms has a set number of green live fronds with the same number of developing fronds inside the bud area of the palm. As a new frond emerges, the oldest frond dies. The age that a frond may attain will be determined by many factors including size of the mature palm, number of fronds produced, etc. The key factor is that only the palm knows when a frond needs to be pruned off, and that is when it is dying (yellow or brown). Unlike hardwood trees, palms cannot increase their canopy size with more leaves, like an oak or maple tree. As each new leaf opens, it will take the place of a dying leaf. The palm knows the exact amount of fronds needed for a healthy tree. When the palm reaches its ultimate height, the fronds will decrease in size and the tree will decline and die. Few cultivated palms die of old age. It is more likely they will die of cultivation or landscape mistakes."
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The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
Cotton
"Defoliation is the application of chemicals to encourage or force cotton leaves to drop from the plant in order to harvest the crop in a timely manner. Defoliation is a balancing act between killing the leaves and not affecting the leaf. For successful defoliation, the leaf must stay alive long enough to begin the formation of an abscission zone that results in leaf drop. If the leaf is killed too rapidly, the chemical signals are not sent from the leaf to the abscission zone. The result is a leaf that is frozen or “stuck” to the plant, creating unnecessary trash. Proper defoliation is a profitable part of a total cotton management system.
Benefits include:
1.Elimination of the main source of stain and trash, resulting in better grades.
2.Faster and more efficient picker operation.
3.Quicker drying of dew, allowing picking to begin earlier in the day.
4.Straightening of lodged plants for more efficient picking.
5.Retardation of boll rot.
6.Potential stimulation of boll opening, which can increase earliness, yield, and profit.
DEFOLIATION DECISIONS
Harvest-aid application decisions are made based on crop maturity, crop condition, weather conditions, and desired harvest schedule. Once producers decide that defoliation is needed, they must determine when the chemical should be applied, what material(s) will be applied, and how much of each material to apply. Crop condition and air temperatures will largely determine
the selection of defoliation materials and rates. Still, desired defoliation materials and rates of application often change during the season with changes in crop condition and weather. In the end, the two most important factors in determining when to defoliate are crop maturity and desired harvest schedule.
When to defoliate?
Poor defoliation can be economically costly. Defoliating too early lowers yield and fiber quality or micronaire. Defoliating too late increases the likelihood of boll rot and lint damaged or lost due to weathering. Defoliating too late also increases the possibility that defoliant activity may be inhibited by lower temperatures. It is generally safe to defoliate when about 60 percent of the bolls are open. But this strategy may not work well in situations where the crop is set faster or slower than normal."
"Defoliation is the application of chemicals to encourage or force cotton leaves to drop from the plant in order to harvest the crop in a timely manner. Defoliation is a balancing act between killing the leaves and not affecting the leaf. For successful defoliation, the leaf must stay alive long enough to begin the formation of an abscission zone that results in leaf drop. If the leaf is killed too rapidly, the chemical signals are not sent from the leaf to the abscission zone. The result is a leaf that is frozen or “stuck” to the plant, creating unnecessary trash. Proper defoliation is a profitable part of a total cotton management system.
Benefits include:
1.Elimination of the main source of stain and trash, resulting in better grades.
2.Faster and more efficient picker operation.
3.Quicker drying of dew, allowing picking to begin earlier in the day.
4.Straightening of lodged plants for more efficient picking.
5.Retardation of boll rot.
6.Potential stimulation of boll opening, which can increase earliness, yield, and profit.
DEFOLIATION DECISIONS
Harvest-aid application decisions are made based on crop maturity, crop condition, weather conditions, and desired harvest schedule. Once producers decide that defoliation is needed, they must determine when the chemical should be applied, what material(s) will be applied, and how much of each material to apply. Crop condition and air temperatures will largely determine
the selection of defoliation materials and rates. Still, desired defoliation materials and rates of application often change during the season with changes in crop condition and weather. In the end, the two most important factors in determining when to defoliate are crop maturity and desired harvest schedule.
When to defoliate?
Poor defoliation can be economically costly. Defoliating too early lowers yield and fiber quality or micronaire. Defoliating too late increases the likelihood of boll rot and lint damaged or lost due to weathering. Defoliating too late also increases the possibility that defoliant activity may be inhibited by lower temperatures. It is generally safe to defoliate when about 60 percent of the bolls are open. But this strategy may not work well in situations where the crop is set faster or slower than normal."
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
Hops
"In addition to removing all the excess shoots it is normal practice to strip the leaves and laterals from the lowest part of the bines. If left unrestricted these provide an excellent site for downy and powdery mildews or red spider mites to become established and then spread upwards into the main canopy. Defoliation is usually started when the bines are about 2m high and is carried on later in the season as required. The height to which it is done depends upon the circumstances. On young plants it is kept to a minimum so that some leaves will be left on the basal part of the bines that is left attached to the plant after harvest. This allows some additional phosynthetic activity to continue which helps to build up food reserves in the rootstock."
Grapes
"Viticulture in Michigan is limited by a cool and humid climate and as a result, there is a problem of harvest season cluster rot, especially in cultivars with compact cluster morphology. Economically important wine grape varieties in eastern North America possess varying susceptibility to harvest season cluster rot. Some important cultivars that are susceptible are Pinot gris, Pinot noir, Riesling (Vitis vinifera L.) as well as Seyval and Vignoles (French–American hybrids or interspecific hybrid cultivars).
A common characteristic of these cultivars is the compactness of the berries held on the cluster rachis. The aim of this work was to determine whether a quantified amount of leaf removal or a temporary reduction in carbon assimilation at the beginning of bloom would reduce fruit set and cluster compactness.
Vines subjected to removal of four or six basal leaves had an average fruit set reduction of ≈45% from a non-treated control. Cluster weight and berries per cluster were similarly reduced with a greater effect on the basal than the apical cluster of the shoot. Reduced fruit set was associated with a reduction in cluster compactness and harvest season rot. This was also reflected in yield and basic fruit chemistry parameters associated with the importance of basal leaves to the developing cluster. Multiple applications of stylet oil at different time intervals resulted in significant reduction in net photosynthesis (Pn). A single application had no significant impact on Pn, whereas multiple applications reduced leaf assimilation rates. However, this reduction in Pn did not reduce fruit set or improve cluster compactness.
There was a strong negative effect of early leaf removal in Year 1 on vine performance in Year 2; this carryover effect increased shootless nodes per vine, reduced the number of clusters per shoot and per vine, and dramatically reduced fruit set and consequently yield per vine.
Leaf removal in the fruiting zone is a classical vineyard management practice in applied during the summer, from fruit set to veraison (Reynolds et al., 1996). It is a pivotal operation on high-density canopies to improve clusters' microclimate (e.g., light exposure and air circulation) that reduces conditions favorable to bunch rot complex diseases (Percival et al., 1994; Reynolds et al., 1986, 1996; Zoecklein et al., 1992) while improving fruit quality (Smart et al., 1990), in particular berry pigmentation (Bureau et al., 2000; Kliewer and Antcliff, 1970; Lakso and Kliewer, 1975).
However, leaf removal can also affect fruit quality negatively. Excessive leaf removal can lead to overexposed clusters (high light intensity and high temperature) and reduced berry color in red cultivars (Price et al., 1995). In a recent study (Petrie et al., 2003), leaf removal from the lower quarter of the canopy during the lag phase of berry growth resulted in a significant reduction in whole-vine photosynthesis and demonstrated that the lower portion of the canopy (removed with leaf removal) contributed more than the upper portion to the whole-vine carbon budget.
Moreover, the effects of leaf removal on yield vary depending on timing and severity. Because it is well known that carbohydrate supply at anthesis is a primary determinant of fruit set (Caspari and Lang, 1996; Vasconcelos et al., 2009), leaf removal within 4 weeks from anthesis generally reduces yield, cluster compactness, and total amount of sugar per berry (Kliewer and Antcliff, 1970). However, if leaves are removed later in the season (pre- or post-veraison) or at reduced level (severity), yield is not significantly affected and occasionally increases compared with the non-defoliated controls (Zoecklein et al., 1992)."
Cherry Trees
"Leaf spot is the most important fungal disease of cherry in the eastern U.S. where it is estimated to infect 80 percent of the orchards and has the potential to reduce yields by 100 percent if not controlled.
Infection of fruit is rare. However, fruit on severely defoliated trees fail to mature normally, and they are light colored, low in soluble solids, soft, and watery.
Defoliation reduces the number of flower buds and subsequent fruit set for the following year.
Defoliated trees are less cold hardy and may be killed by low temperatures in winter"
"In addition to removing all the excess shoots it is normal practice to strip the leaves and laterals from the lowest part of the bines. If left unrestricted these provide an excellent site for downy and powdery mildews or red spider mites to become established and then spread upwards into the main canopy. Defoliation is usually started when the bines are about 2m high and is carried on later in the season as required. The height to which it is done depends upon the circumstances. On young plants it is kept to a minimum so that some leaves will be left on the basal part of the bines that is left attached to the plant after harvest. This allows some additional phosynthetic activity to continue which helps to build up food reserves in the rootstock."
Grapes
"Viticulture in Michigan is limited by a cool and humid climate and as a result, there is a problem of harvest season cluster rot, especially in cultivars with compact cluster morphology. Economically important wine grape varieties in eastern North America possess varying susceptibility to harvest season cluster rot. Some important cultivars that are susceptible are Pinot gris, Pinot noir, Riesling (Vitis vinifera L.) as well as Seyval and Vignoles (French–American hybrids or interspecific hybrid cultivars).
A common characteristic of these cultivars is the compactness of the berries held on the cluster rachis. The aim of this work was to determine whether a quantified amount of leaf removal or a temporary reduction in carbon assimilation at the beginning of bloom would reduce fruit set and cluster compactness.
Vines subjected to removal of four or six basal leaves had an average fruit set reduction of ≈45% from a non-treated control. Cluster weight and berries per cluster were similarly reduced with a greater effect on the basal than the apical cluster of the shoot. Reduced fruit set was associated with a reduction in cluster compactness and harvest season rot. This was also reflected in yield and basic fruit chemistry parameters associated with the importance of basal leaves to the developing cluster. Multiple applications of stylet oil at different time intervals resulted in significant reduction in net photosynthesis (Pn). A single application had no significant impact on Pn, whereas multiple applications reduced leaf assimilation rates. However, this reduction in Pn did not reduce fruit set or improve cluster compactness.
There was a strong negative effect of early leaf removal in Year 1 on vine performance in Year 2; this carryover effect increased shootless nodes per vine, reduced the number of clusters per shoot and per vine, and dramatically reduced fruit set and consequently yield per vine.
Leaf removal in the fruiting zone is a classical vineyard management practice in applied during the summer, from fruit set to veraison (Reynolds et al., 1996). It is a pivotal operation on high-density canopies to improve clusters' microclimate (e.g., light exposure and air circulation) that reduces conditions favorable to bunch rot complex diseases (Percival et al., 1994; Reynolds et al., 1986, 1996; Zoecklein et al., 1992) while improving fruit quality (Smart et al., 1990), in particular berry pigmentation (Bureau et al., 2000; Kliewer and Antcliff, 1970; Lakso and Kliewer, 1975).
However, leaf removal can also affect fruit quality negatively. Excessive leaf removal can lead to overexposed clusters (high light intensity and high temperature) and reduced berry color in red cultivars (Price et al., 1995). In a recent study (Petrie et al., 2003), leaf removal from the lower quarter of the canopy during the lag phase of berry growth resulted in a significant reduction in whole-vine photosynthesis and demonstrated that the lower portion of the canopy (removed with leaf removal) contributed more than the upper portion to the whole-vine carbon budget.
Moreover, the effects of leaf removal on yield vary depending on timing and severity. Because it is well known that carbohydrate supply at anthesis is a primary determinant of fruit set (Caspari and Lang, 1996; Vasconcelos et al., 2009), leaf removal within 4 weeks from anthesis generally reduces yield, cluster compactness, and total amount of sugar per berry (Kliewer and Antcliff, 1970). However, if leaves are removed later in the season (pre- or post-veraison) or at reduced level (severity), yield is not significantly affected and occasionally increases compared with the non-defoliated controls (Zoecklein et al., 1992)."
Cherry Trees
"Leaf spot is the most important fungal disease of cherry in the eastern U.S. where it is estimated to infect 80 percent of the orchards and has the potential to reduce yields by 100 percent if not controlled.
Infection of fruit is rare. However, fruit on severely defoliated trees fail to mature normally, and they are light colored, low in soluble solids, soft, and watery.
Defoliation reduces the number of flower buds and subsequent fruit set for the following year.
Defoliated trees are less cold hardy and may be killed by low temperatures in winter"
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
Defoliation and Its Effect on Tree Vitality
"The plant leaf functions primarily in the manufacture of sugars and carbohydrates. These substances are the basic food or energy sources for all metabolic processes in the plant including growth, root development, flower and seed production, disease resistance, etc. Leaves also provide many indirect benefits such as emitting oxygen, scr eening out particulates and other air pollutants, intercepting precipitation to minimize erosion and shading the ground to modify surface temperatures.
Effects of defoliation on trees can range from a slight reduction in vigor to total death. Defoliation harms plants by eliminating their food production capability. The refoliation process, which frequently occurs immediately following defoliation, also requires energy for budbreak and leaf expansion, which causes further depletion of stored food reserves. The inability of the tree to manufacture food (energy) together with the depletion of stored food weakens the tree and results in reduced growth, stunted, pale-green new leaves and possibly twig and branch dieback. Mortality of small feeder roots also frequently occurs.
The tree also is changed physiologically from defoliation. The production of protective substances that aid in disease resistance may be inhibited. Natural growth regulators also may be modified which may delay dormancy. These changes result in increased susceptibility to certain insects and diseases and reduced winter hardiness."
Conclusion:
If you type "Defoliation benefits" into Google, in over 10 whole pages of results there is not 1 reference to defoliation benefiting ANY plant like you think it does. The opposite is actually the case, that it is highly detrimental to ALL plants.
The only references (in those more than 10 pages) to defoliation doing what you think it does is blind speculation from anecdotal idiots ONLY on cannabis forums, idiots that don't understand botany.
Those idiots are proven wrong with science and also the work carried out back in the day by people like Robert Connell Clarke (Cannabis Botany book) and David Paul Watson (Sam_Skunkman & Torture Tests).
Robert Clarke and David Watson are the worlds authoritative minds on cannabis physiology, Scott Blakey (Shantibaba) comes 3rd in my opinion.
"The plant leaf functions primarily in the manufacture of sugars and carbohydrates. These substances are the basic food or energy sources for all metabolic processes in the plant including growth, root development, flower and seed production, disease resistance, etc. Leaves also provide many indirect benefits such as emitting oxygen, scr eening out particulates and other air pollutants, intercepting precipitation to minimize erosion and shading the ground to modify surface temperatures.
Effects of defoliation on trees can range from a slight reduction in vigor to total death. Defoliation harms plants by eliminating their food production capability. The refoliation process, which frequently occurs immediately following defoliation, also requires energy for budbreak and leaf expansion, which causes further depletion of stored food reserves. The inability of the tree to manufacture food (energy) together with the depletion of stored food weakens the tree and results in reduced growth, stunted, pale-green new leaves and possibly twig and branch dieback. Mortality of small feeder roots also frequently occurs.
The tree also is changed physiologically from defoliation. The production of protective substances that aid in disease resistance may be inhibited. Natural growth regulators also may be modified which may delay dormancy. These changes result in increased susceptibility to certain insects and diseases and reduced winter hardiness."
Conclusion:
If you type "Defoliation benefits" into Google, in over 10 whole pages of results there is not 1 reference to defoliation benefiting ANY plant like you think it does. The opposite is actually the case, that it is highly detrimental to ALL plants.
The only references (in those more than 10 pages) to defoliation doing what you think it does is blind speculation from anecdotal idiots ONLY on cannabis forums, idiots that don't understand botany.
Those idiots are proven wrong with science and also the work carried out back in the day by people like Robert Connell Clarke (Cannabis Botany book) and David Paul Watson (Sam_Skunkman & Torture Tests).
Robert Clarke and David Watson are the worlds authoritative minds on cannabis physiology, Scott Blakey (Shantibaba) comes 3rd in my opinion.
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The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
No I'm certain of something based on proven biological fact (as above), I don't entertain anecdotes.
Yes I've seen loads of tests, I've lost count of how many noobs I've watched do side by sides and pull the leaves off a plant/plants in the mistaken and irrational belief that it will give them a better yield. Which it doesn't, resulting in them being disappointed that their plant/plants (at the very least) fail to mature properly with a drastically reduced yield and quickly become susceptible to diseases and other problems.
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The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
Job done, cunt's on ignore now.
theslipperbandit
Well-Known Member
God dammit u beat me to it hahaSo you fail to recognise that you've nutrient burned your plant to shit then?
The bulb touches the plant all the way fucking down does it?
You won't find any info on defoliation being beneficial like you think to any plants anywhere except by idiots on weed forums.
The 2 notable exceptions are cotton plants prior to harvest and the bottom of hops plants to stop any more vines growing yet still it's not used like you think.
There is an abundance of literature and studies proving defoliation (like you think) is detrimental to plants, use fucking Google you lazy twat.
I could throw a shit load of papers at you but like I said, why the fuck should I waste my time with a fool who can't grasp the basics.
theslipperbandit
Well-Known Member
I'd recccomended Google scholar as opposed to Google. Lots of real nice papers on all aspects of botony
medicropper07
Well-Known Member
What about subcool?
theslipperbandit
Well-Known Member
You still running bare bulbs?
abe supercro
Well-Known Member
cool tubes custom rigging.
medicropper07
Well-Known Member
What about the bandit as assistant head grower mr C, give him something to do while he detox's
theslipperbandit
Well-Known Member
Are you on the autistic spec or something dude cuz ur lacking some basic ppl skills
dazzyballz
Well-Known Member
Thingz on the up.thst purple 1 is nice made a bag sand oteady...strange plant mind citrusy"everyone loving it tho the colors a novelty.got 16 oz of 3 plants outdoor,in wet arse cumbria good 9oz trim for oil.
Getting 8ft by 25 ft growing space in a few months,cant wait.
Ive got my 1st led crop finished in about a month quite liked using them diff. To h.i.d by a lot,plants had a bit different growing cycle it seemed they had spurts coming on ,got 4 1300w for the 25ft foot.
Insane whats garn down here.
Getting 8ft by 25 ft growing space in a few months,cant wait.Ive got my 1st led crop finished in about a month quite liked using them diff. To h.i.d by a lot,plants had a bit different growing cycle it seemed they had spurts coming on ,got 4 1300w for the 25ft foot.
Insane whats garn down here.