Sending my compost and worm castings to a lab...

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
i'm smart enough to know my experience and knowledge level, that being said, I defer to you, you seem to know much more about that than I.
I had to reset my computer yesterday. I can browse the internet but all of my apps have been deleted and I am waiting for them to download. The one I am waiting on is for my camera. Maybe I will be able to post pics in about 5-10min
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Richland does have 50# bales for $7.30 plus $20.28 to ship but I'm not sure I want Acme Transit or someone delivering here in the Fall. Will check on freight carrier. That is $50.00 less than Amazon. Irene Wilson Director of Sales. I have 8 cu/ft of perlite in storage and use a 2 1/2x 5 foot tent. My wife thinks I am dirt hoarder.
Call me old and cranky, but, $20.28 to ship a $7.30 product makes zero sense to me. Especially when there are other ways to get carbon and silica. But, whatever.

8cf of perlite is also what I keep on hand. A 4cf bag works out pretty well for a 3.8cf bale of peat moss. Not exact, but close, since my aeration is ~40%+. When I open the second bag, I'll order/buy another.

Not a "dirt hoarder", simply being prudent. Besides, the wife appreciates the container stuff I grow.

Wet
 

rikdabrick

Well-Known Member
I think that is what I ordered? The "routine soil test" would be the Mehlich and I also paid for a Micro and Secondary test.

Soil Fertility
Routine Soil Test
pH (1:1), Lime requirement (Sikora Buffer), NO3-N,
Soil test P & K by Mehlich 3 (MIII) $10.00

Secondary Nutrients
Mg, Ca (M3) and SO4-S (0.008M Calcium Phosphate) $4.00

Micronutrients
Fe, Zn, Cu, B (DTPA-Sorbitol)
$4.00
Sulfur is extracted using a calcium phosphate solution and the micronutrients are extraced using the DTPA-Sorbitol solution in those tests.

I realized I just butted in here. I think the tests you got are fine and the lab should give you recommendations based off the tests they do. So really the only thing I'd consider if I were you is to get the AA pH8.2 test if they offer it and especially if your soil is alkaline. If they don't offer it, then no worries, but I'd use a lab that does AA pH8.2 tests in the future. Between the Mehlich 3 test and the AA pH 8.2 tests you can really see how much calcium and magnesium is available in the soil. A lot of times both Ca and Mg can be unavailable in the soil due to interactions with other elements (especially in alkaline soils) and you can have a falsely high number for Ca and Mg in the M3 test, but the AA ph8.2 will give an accurate number for Ca and Mg in an alkaline soil.

If I can figure out how to convert the DTPA and Ca3O8P2 solution tests I can give you my 2 cents if you care. If not, no worries the lab should tell you what to add.

Also, if your pots are drying out then besides not enough aeration you probably also have magnesium too high and calcium too low. Magnesium closes up the soil when it's wet while calcium opens it up. If you have enough calcium in your soil it'll stay pretty aerated all by it self.
 
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hillbill

Well-Known Member
$27.58 for 50# of rice hulls to my door or I pick up a bag of perlite for $39.00 plus tax and gas. Bulky items require freight shipping. Feed stores in parts of the country have them for bedding. They charge about $15 a bale. Local stores don't carry them. Seeing if my son has truck going that way also. PBHs are a great aeration aide and also have moocho silicon. Two years though is about as long as they last. They then become composted rice hulls.

Perlite was $17.95 a bag a few years ago. I still have an old bag with price tag.
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
I feel like I am just passing time until I get the results lol.... My local store has a variety of perlite, its the other stuff that they dont have like pumice, lava rock, or even rice hulls...
Get the local perlite, a 4cf bag if you can. AFA variety it should say 'horticural grade', or, just Perlite. They are the same stuff. "Chunky" is just a gimmick and actually works less well, besides costing more.

Here is my beef with pumice, lava rock and the like and inexperienced growers. Especially those following any sort of recipe.

THE SAME VOLUME OF LAVA ROCK OR PUMICE PROVIDES MUCH LESS AERATION THAN AN EQUAL VOLUME OF PERLITE.

The rocks being larger have way less surface area than the much smaller perlite and provide less air spaces and a more dense mix. If you were following a recipe that called for, say, 5 gallons of aeration, 5 gallons of perlite should be well aerated, but using 5 gallons of say lava rock would just give you a too dense and poor draining mix. Of course you could use more to correct this, that is where the experience and "eyeballing" comes into play. But, just measuring out like you're baking a cake aren't going to give you the results desired.

I see this happen over and over and over again, usually with yellow leaves (at the least), and "I followed the recipe exactly, *EXCEPT* I substituted X for Y, because some poster said to". Usually, this is either the Aeration amendment or, the liming agent and the substituted material being unsuitable for the task. Using rock dust for a liming agent seems to be popular for some reason.

Get the perlite and the D-Lime and have known items to work with and that are known to work. Once you have a basic, REPEATABLE mix that works well, THEN you can experiment with different things, having a base line to work from.

Wet
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Good points. My concern with perlite is it is white and over time my raised beds etc. become more white from mix I do not reuse. Also looking for practical ways to reuse more and more used mix. Using more compost straw and aged mulch helps it blend in.

I have no moral objections to perlite. Being not a purist.
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
$27.58 for 50# of rice hulls to my door or I pick up a bag of perlite for $39.00 plus tax and gas. Bulky items require freight shipping. Feed stores in parts of the country have them for bedding. They charge about $15 a bale. Local stores don't carry them. Seeing if my son has truck going that way also. PBHs are a great aeration aide and also have moocho silicon. Two years though is about as long as they last. They then become composted rice hulls.

Perlite was $17.95 a bag a few years ago. I still have an old bag with price tag.
Ask around some. My local feed&seed always had vermiculite (?? bedding I guess), but never perlite. I finally asked and he said, no room and low demand, then added he could order it if I could wait a week. NO PROBLEM! Would stop by on a Mon before he ordered stock and it would come in on the next truck. $16 OTD. Saved me a 20+ mile drive and $25 cost.

Told me just to ask about stuff as he can order single bags of things he doesn't have room to stock. Snagged a 50# bag of wheat bran for $12, to eventually make bokashi bran.

Yeah, the local organic place's perlite is $39+tax. Amendments are likewise priced, but he does have good prices on containers and such, so he gets some business from me.

Wet
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Ask around some. My local feed&seed always had vermiculite (?? bedding I guess), but never perlite. I finally asked and he said, no room and low demand, then added he could order it if I could wait a week. NO PROBLEM! Would stop by on a Mon before he ordered stock and it would come in on the next truck. $16 OTD. Saved me a 20+ mile drive and $25 cost.

Told me just to ask about stuff as he can order single bags of things he doesn't have room to stock. Snagged a 50# bag of wheat bran for $12, to eventually make bokashi bran.

Yeah, the local organic place's perlite is $39+tax. Amendments are likewise priced, but he does have good prices on containers and such, so he gets some business from me.

Wet
Shopping around pays off! My local grow stores sell perlite for the same price as your organic shop. I get the same 4 cubic foot bag (not chunky just horticulture grade just like yours) for like 14 bucks after tax at a landscape and garden supplier. then a bale of peat moss for 13 bucks. Quality compost from food scraps and leaves, and mushroom compost (each bag is always filled with earth worms) for five bucks a piece.

It's ridiculous.
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
I almost waited until I got the results back before I posted, but I decided to let people speculate a little. I am waiting for my lights to come on right now, so bear with me on the pics. I have a reoccurring problem with my soil, I get the yellow fade way too soon like week 4-5. My seedlings and clones LOVE the soil, so I imagine that I am not too far off. I had a really great harvest a couple of cycles ago and it has been going down hill since. I screened a bunch of wood chips out of my soil and it helped but didnt fix it. I am using recycled soil that has a mix of "build a soil" nutrient craft mix and "Bio-Live" from Down to Earth. I have not added any amendments because this would only be the 1st-2nd run with the soil, but I have been adding rabbit manure EWC in between cycles.

Compost
View attachment 3830907
View attachment 3830913

Finished rabbit manure worm bedding, I dont know what to call this yet? Worm castings with a manure base???
View attachment 3830911

Here is some of the crap that I had to screen from my recycled soil. There was a lot of it, like 100gallons!
View attachment 3830916
Ugh I was going to read the whole thread first to see if you answered this, but sorry I can't concentrate ---
So what tests exactly are you getting done? Just chemical or also microbial!!?!
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I wish that there was someone that I could bribe to hurry up the test results... Is this a popular time for farmers to send in soil samples? If so, I bet that I am last priority!!! I think that this is the time of year that they add lime to their fields, so maybe they need a sample first, just guessing here...
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
I wish that there was someone that I could bribe to hurry up the test results... Is this a popular time for farmers to send in soil samples? If so, I bet that I am last priority!!! I think that this is the time of year that they add lime to their fields, so maybe they need a sample first, just guessing here...
LOL could be :razz:
What are you having tested for?
Never mind found it lol
NOW these guys need to hurry up -- a soil sample isn't viable forever, especially with micro tests
 
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hillbill

Well-Known Member
I've often used NAPA 8822 floor dri but with LEDs and COBs more pure drainage is required. I still use it but less. I use 8822 in my Prickly Pear areas outside. My local feed stores barely know what rice hulls are.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
LOL could be :razz:
What are you having tested for?
I was trying to look at the price list again to try to make sense of it, I think that Rikdabrick has the best understanding of these tests. I think that the lab assistant helped my wife pick from their list. I will try my best to explain it.

We had 2 samples, soil and rabbit manure EWC. The sample that I sent in had worms and eggs, it was packed with them!
Ok, we got the "Routine soil test" with Micro and secondary tests. Here is the 3 parts for the soil...

Soil Fertility
Routine Soil Test
pH (1:1), Lime requirement (Sikora Buffer), NO3-N,
Soil test P & K by Mehlich 3 (MIII) $10.00

Secondary Nutrients
Mg, Ca (M3) and SO4-S (0.008M Calcium Phosphate) $4.00

Micronutrients
Fe, Zn, Cu, B (DTPA-Sorbitol)
$4.00
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
We just got test #1 for the animal manure... I wish that I understood this better. Basic college chemistry does not help, fuck I am realizing that I might be a dummy!

Animal Manure and Compost Analyses
Animal Waste Form (Word Format)

Test 1 (Solid/slurry)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $20.00

Test 1 (liquid)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $25.00

Test 2 NH4-N and NO3-N $6.00

Test 3 Water soluble P $8.00
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I know the periodic table and I see the different elements, but shit, when you start getting into the tests it goes over my head pretty quick...

It looks like they do certain tests @ different PH levels to test for different elements.
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
We just got test #1 for the animal manure... I wish that I understood this better. Basic college chemistry does not help, fuck I am realizing that I might be a dummy!

Animal Manure and Compost Analyses
Animal Waste Form (Word Format)

Test 1 (Solid/slurry)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $20.00

Test 1 (liquid)
pH, EC, Moisture, TN, C, S, P, K, Ca, Mg, Na, Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe $25.00

Test 2 NH4-N and NO3-N $6.00

Test 3 Water soluble P $8.00
Well it's all chemical stuff.
I should shut up and come back when my brain is working and read what rickabrick wrote first lol

But of course I can't :P
There's this thing about chemical soil tests and what exactly they are testing, just the soluble nutrients? That depends on the method they use.
So the significance, since you are adding microbial life to your soils, and they can access the total nutrient content, is rather limited I'd say?
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Well it's all chemical stuff.
I should shut up and come back when my brain is working and read what rickabrick wrote first lol

But of course I can't :P
There's this thing about chemical soil tests and what exactly they are testing, just the soluble nutrients? That depends on the method they use.
So the significance, since you are adding microbial life to your soils, and they can access the total nutrient content, is rather limited I'd say?
Look at this site, it explains the differences in the soil tests. Well, kind of.

http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/soilfertility/presentations/mbotest.pdf
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Well it's all chemical stuff.
I should shut up and come back when my brain is working and read what rickabrick wrote first lol
Its cool, I am just eager to get the results back myself!!! I am bored right now and I dont mind talking to you. I cant believe that this software is kicking my ass, the one for the camera...
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Get the local perlite, a 4cf bag if you can. AFA variety it should say 'horticural grade', or, just Perlite. They are the same stuff. "Chunky" is just a gimmick and actually works less well, besides costing more.

Here is my beef with pumice, lava rock and the like and inexperienced growers. Especially those following any sort of recipe.

THE SAME VOLUME OF LAVA ROCK OR PUMICE PROVIDES MUCH LESS AERATION THAN AN EQUAL VOLUME OF PERLITE.

The rocks being larger have way less surface area than the much smaller perlite and provide less air spaces and a more dense mix. If you were following a recipe that called for, say, 5 gallons of aeration, 5 gallons of perlite should be well aerated, but using 5 gallons of say lava rock would just give you a too dense and poor draining mix. Of course you could use more to correct this, that is where the experience and "eyeballing" comes into play. But, just measuring out like you're baking a cake aren't going to give you the results desired.

I see this happen over and over and over again, usually with yellow leaves (at the least), and "I followed the recipe exactly, *EXCEPT* I substituted X for Y, because some poster said to". Usually, this is either the Aeration amendment or, the liming agent and the substituted material being unsuitable for the task. Using rock dust for a liming agent seems to be popular for some reason.

Get the perlite and the D-Lime and have known items to work with and that are known to work. Once you have a basic, REPEATABLE mix that works well, THEN you can experiment with different things, having a base line to work from.

Wet
I do see your point, and considering assembling a "virgin" soil mix is challenging in it's own regard, especially if no sources of good humus/microbial life is available.
As far as the dolomite lime, my only complaint/concern with that is the magnesium involved, more specifically the ratio of it, it's like 2/1 ratio of calcium to mag, In the VERY high organic ratios of the soil it's just a lil much, especially in a soil that isn't predicated on peat (but I acknowledge that many do indeed use lots of peatmoss) sometimes that can create issues over time, especially those that like to use black strap molasses and such.
I'd probably choose calcitic lime over dolomite, but I really just rely on the composting procedure and microbes to keep the soil a nice neutral, to verrrrry slightly acidic ph.
If I was using a peat based mix i'd be probably using some sort of lime.

BUT, I hardly have any peat in my soil, mostly compost which is always a neutral ph anyways, couple that with the small liming capabilities of oyster flour, crabshell, shrimpmeal, manure, and biochar.. (often people forget the natural liming ability of simple composted steer manure)

but again you brought up a really good and overlooked point, what you and I do without thinking is sometime taken for granted.
Now don't take that as me being arrogant, ask me to ppm, ph or whatever-the-fuck-it-is-hydro-guys-are-doing-nowadays, and i'll look at you with a confused look. Same can be said of a lot of subjects.
but I can assemble soil like a mofo
But i'd say 99% of the population would acquire that knowledge over the 25 yrs that I've been growing, so I better know how to make soil or I should kick myself in my own nuts, or find a different hobby.

But it's not easy, it just comes over the course of, as you said, fuckups.
The entire reason why I am here on this forum is to just show people how simple it can be once you have a good foundation, active humus.
That's the secret, active, fresh, loaded with microbial life, super high CEC, always conducive ph, HUMUS and perfect in retaining and releasing organic nutrients over the lifespan of flowering cannabis.

Take away my compost and i'm just an above-average grower, I freely admit that.
but armed with compost?
well, anybody can grow amazing plants.
Not to mention that it's great for landfills as well, all those leaves aren't getting buried or composted improperly
 
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