The View From the Left

[Lucky Luke]

I don't think you have ever served. It doesn't quite work the way police do. I find policemen and most of the judicial system and legislature regarding criminal code to be disgraceful.

However, there are values that are instilled in us. In our oath, we first swear loyalty to the people and Constitution, and the second clause is where we swear loyalty and obedience to the President. If they conflict, most of us are going to go with the first clause, especially anyone who has ever served in combat. We know the difference between home and the enemy.

No i haven't but i come from a long line of Military family members going back to the 1800's. (perhaps further)

History tell us that this can and does happen.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

No i haven't but i come from a long line of Military family members going back to the 1800's. (perhaps further)

History tell us that this can and does happen.

It's very likely that it won't happen here. I don't know any man I have served with that would be willing to oppress the population. It would be an unlawful order.

 

[ArcticGranite]

I don't think you have ever served. It doesn't quite work the way police do. I find policemen and most of the judicial system and legislature regarding criminal code to be disgraceful.

However, there are values that are instilled in us. In our oath, we first swear loyalty to the people and Constitution, and the second clause is where we swear loyalty and obedience to the President. If they conflict, most of us are going to go with the first clause, especially anyone who has ever served in combat. We know the difference between home and the enemy.

I haven't thought of our obligation oath that way. A sailor. "Non sibi sed patriae" Not for self but for country.

 

[Lucky Luke]

It's very likely that it won't happen here. I don't know any man I have served with that would be willing to oppress the population. It would be an unlawful order.

Depends what "oppressing is" doesnt it? It starts small, like - "brought in to control a riot/peaceful demonstration". And end with Marshal law/ Curfew. Its for your safety to be locked up at home.

Hey were protecting you!

All the safety measures become dust once they control the armed forces for ill.

 

[fdd2blk]

 

[Olive Drab Green]

This will never happen again. I promise you that this generation's soldier is nothing like the men who shot those students. But this was a shameful act committed by men who were not real soldiers, as they had forgotten their oath.

 

[Lucky Luke]

This will never happen again. I promise you that this generation's soldier is nothing like the men who shot those students. But this was a shameful act committed by men who were not real soldiers, as they had forgotten their oath.

 

[Lucky Luke]

No
No
No
Fluff
Fluff

So a Communist power influencing YOUR election is OK with you? Interesting..

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Whatever you say. I know my shit.

 

[ttystikk]

Also, I fear he will be widely successful. The pendulum swings. I like center. It's been left and now feels like it's careening right and gonna swing far past center.

Huh? It swung right of center when Reagan was inaugurated. It's been 36 years of increasingly extreme conservatism/nationalism since and now headed into fascism and aristocracy because that's the only rightward territory left.

 

[ttystikk]

The purpose of the act – in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807 – is to limit the powers of the federal government in using federal military personnelto enforce domestic policies within the United States.

Right. Just like the US military was used to forcibly remove or disarm residents of New Orleans after Katrina.

If the Feds can take away your rights whenever they want, YOU DON'T HAVE THEM.

 

[ttystikk]

Just wanted to say, speaking as a former soldier, we wouldn't do fuck all to stop Occupy. Many of us sympathize. The government is fucked, and we probably get it better than anyone. Besides, why would you expect a service member to oppress free speech in the same country they are in service to? (You know? Home?)

I think soldiers will follow orders, whether they're constitutional or not.

 

[ttystikk]

I think the problem lies in the future not the present.

We have seen Police go from preventing and solving crime and a respected parra military force to being a tool for revenue raising. Thus losing the respect of the population they protect. "us and them"

We are seeing the armed forces starting to be used as a policing force. I suggest that then they will start losing the respect of the population. This will alienate them just like it does the policeman.

This creates "us and them" and the Military force will become like the Parra military force (Police). They will do what they are told against the population they are meant to protect. And think they are in the right for doing so. "Its the law" and the law is meant to protect us.

Wont happen this year, wont happen next year but it will happen,

It's already happening; first in 'emergencies', then it becomes routine.

SWAT teams already routinely go into full attack mode to serve arrest warrants for traffic tickets. They call it 'practice'.

 

[ttystikk]

There's a difference between the phrase and the act. Posse comitatus is essentially the invocation of a lynch mob.

And it isn't a law I respect. Just my oath and my fellow countrymen and women.

You have this all wrong.

 

[ttystikk]

It's very likely that it won't happen here. I don't know any man I have served with that would be willing to oppress the population. It would be an unlawful order.

It ALREADY HAS happened here.

 

[ttystikk]

This will never happen again. I promise you that this generation's soldier is nothing like the men who shot those students. But this was a shameful act committed by men who were not real soldiers, as they had forgotten their oath.

It already has happened again. I know, broken record, but I have to disagree.

 

[ttystikk]

Whatever you say. I know my shit.

Soldiers were happy to shoot 'looters' or whoever else they were told were 'bad' people in the aftermath of Katrina.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Whatever you say. I know my shit.

Just a friendly debate my friend. No need to get upset or take it personally.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Soldiers were happy to shoot 'looters' or whoever else they were told were 'bad' people in the aftermath of Katrina.

Solders are trained to follow orders without question. Its what they are paid to do.

 

[twostrokenut]

Good read. I had to swap "elite" for "government" and saw little difference in party to the "hard and soft forces".