OMRI Listed Miticides/Fungicides

visajoe1

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Capt Jacks spinsad = Mites/bugs

You make your own "best" PM controllers. Once a plant has PM. You can only "control" it, not kill it (with out using a very nasty systemic fungicide. It's not to be used on plants that are consumed)!

BE CLEAN! STAY CLEAN! FOLLOW prevention rules!
Click to expand...

Whats the harm in a systematic fungicide that only lasts 30 days?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
vostok said:
cold pressed neem oil is mine

does bugs and is systemic too

as a plus I add it to my Sunday curries

good luck
Click to expand...

Hows that persistent "Peanut butter and garlic taste in you curry doing V? if you knew how it kills mites. You would be worried about your balls!

You do know that Neem is being studied deeper and they are saying in preliminary reports that Neem is far more toxic then we thought right? More from that later.

Folks say that Neem is systemic and you only need to spray it once.. That is incorrect! Neem can be systemic but, only by application of a soil drench, AND it does NOT kill off mites that way! The chemical in the neem, "azadirachtin", stays too deep in the plant to have any effect on mites. (The mite bites and feeds from the Phloem. The mite can not bite deep enough to reach where the "neem" is!

Neem is NOT a contact killer! The azadirachtin in neem blocks amino actions and hormone release. The bug does not sexually mature,. So it doesn't reproduce. That (hopefully) will break the cycle. Most of the time it does not! The eggs laid before spraying are still viable and hatch = whole new batch to kill. Shit, miss a spot and they'll be back. So then these bugs waiting to die from old age, childless and hungry. Keep right on eating on your plant and doing damage for as long as 2 weeks! This is the only way mites are affected by azadirachtin.

The other problem with neem oil is that it is (very) biodegradable, light sensitive and therefore unstable. It can/will become rancid if not stored at 40*F or less. Even then, lifetime is limited. It solidifies at those temps so is not useful until it is warmed.
Furthermore it is an oil which needs a surfactant for emulsification in order for it to be used as a spray.
To put it on a shelf in a store, additional ingredients are required to stabilize it and provide emulsification so when shaken it can be easily be mixed with water. Those ingredients are, one can bet, the cheapest the manufacturer can use. They are not (always) organic or safe!

These are real neem facts on toxicity from that report, below.

Reported effects of neem oil on humans are summarised. Two cases were described where oral administration to young children resulted in acute toxic effects.
The oil, even in small amounts (5ml)was reported to cause toxic encephalopathy. Features were vomiting, drowsiness, tachypnoea, and recurrent generalised seizures. Laboratory tests showed that the oil causes leukocytosis and metabolic acidosis (Lai et al.,1990). Sinniah et al. (1982) reported the case of a child, who died after administration of the oil as treatment for a cough. Autopsy findings revealed changes in the liver and kidneys consistent with Reyes syndrome but, unlike those described in acute aflatoxicosis. As aflatoxins have been identified in oil samples, the toxic action of the oil may have been due to the synergistic effects of aflatoxins and other toxic components in the oil. In indigenous medicine in India, the oil is considered to have a contraceptive activity

It should NOT be given internally to the weak, very young or the old and must be avoided by any pregnant women, or women trying to become pregnant. High continuous intake could cause liver problems.

Neem seed oil CAN (as its been reported), when taken internally, produce a toxic effect in humans, and side effects include diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, acidosis, encephalopathy, etc amongst other things. The toxic effects might be due to the presence of aflatoxin and other toxic compounds present in Neem oil.

Neem oil shows toxicity to fish like tilapia and carp, and oral administration of the oil in rats and rabbits (at 14 ml/kg and 24ml/kg respectively) produced a severe hypoglycaemic effect and possibly targets the central nervous system and lungs.

Taking Neem oil internally is not recommended and taking internal doses as small as 5 ml has killed infants !

V I would recommend to err on the side of safety.

If you do your research beyond the blue I think there is more to the story.

Part of the above is taken from an answer to a question on a non MJ grow site and contained information from that preliminary tox study report.

I have NEVER been a fan of Neem and never will be. It's too slow, too repetitive (labor intensive) and I knew it was worse then reported.....I mean just how it affects the target insect and the results are unnerving! If you had any college chemistry or advanced agronomy, you understand my point on that...

FOLK's, there's some facts on Neem and you choose from there!
 
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Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
I use Monterey garden spray which also has spinosad and is OMRI rated. I also sprinkle some diatomaceous earth on top layer of each container but since I've been amending my recycled soil with neem seed meal each time I've not seen a single gnat or thrip in my grow. Used to get them on the regular....wait, neem seeds are poison??
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Hows that persistent "Peanut butter and garlic taste in you curry doing V? if you knew how it kills mites. You would be worried about your balls!

You do know that Neem is being studied deeper and they are saying in preliminary reports that Neem is far more toxic then we thought right? More from that later.

Folks say that Neem is systemic and you only need to spray it once.. That is incorrect! Neem can be systemic but, only by application of a soil drench, AND it does NOT kill off mites that way! The chemical in the neem, "azadirachtin", stays too deep in the plant to have any effect on mites. (The mite bites and feeds from the Phloem. The mite can not bite deep enough to reach where the "neem" is!

Neem is NOT a contact killer! The azadirachtin in neem blocks amino actions and hormone release. The bug does not sexually mature,. So it doesn't reproduce. That (hopefully) will break the cycle. Most of the time it does not! The eggs laid before spraying are still viable and hatch = whole new batch to kill. Shit, miss a spot and they'll be back. So then these bugs waiting to die from old age, childless and hungry. Keep right on eating on your plant and doing damage for as long as 2 weeks! This is the only way mites are affected by azadirachtin.

The other problem with neem oil is that it is (very) biodegradable, light sensitive and therefore unstable. It can/will become rancid if not stored at 40*F or less. Even then, lifetime is limited. It solidifies at those temps so is not useful until it is warmed.
Furthermore it is an oil which needs a surfactant for emulsification in order for it to be used as a spray.
To put it on a shelf in a store, additional ingredients are required to stabilize it and provide emulsification so when shaken it can be easily be mixed with water. Those ingredients are, one can bet, the cheapest the manufacturer can use. They are not (always) organic or safe!

These are real neem facts on toxicity from that report, below.

Reported effects of neem oil on humans are summarised. Two cases were described where oral administration to young children resulted in acute toxic effects.
The oil, even in small amounts (5ml)was reported to cause toxic encephalopathy. Features were vomiting, drowsiness, tachypnoea, and recurrent generalised seizures. Laboratory tests showed that the oil causes leukocytosis and metabolic acidosis (Lai et al.,1990). Sinniah et al. (1982) reported the case of a child, who died after administration of the oil as treatment for a cough. Autopsy findings revealed changes in the liver and kidneys consistent with Reyes syndrome but, unlike those described in acute aflatoxicosis. As aflatoxins have been identified in oil samples, the toxic action of the oil may have been due to the synergistic effects of aflatoxins and other toxic components in the oil. In indigenous medicine in India, the oil is considered to have a contraceptive activity

It should NOT be given internally to the weak, very young or the old and must be avoided by any pregnant women, or women trying to become pregnant. High continuous intake could cause liver problems.

Neem seed oil CAN (as its been reported), when taken internally, produce a toxic effect in humans, and side effects include diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting, acidosis, encephalopathy, etc amongst other things. The toxic effects might be due to the presence of aflatoxin and other toxic compounds present in Neem oil.

Neem oil shows toxicity to fish like tilapia and carp, and oral administration of the oil in rats and rabbits (at 14 ml/kg and 24ml/kg respectively) produced a severe hypoglycaemic effect and possibly targets the central nervous system and lungs.

Taking Neem oil internally is not recommended and taking internal doses as small as 5 ml has killed infants !

V I would recommend to err on the side of safety.

If you do your research beyond the blue I think there is more to the story.

Part of the above is taken from an answer to a question on a non MJ grow site and contained information from that preliminary tox study report.

I have NEVER been a fan of Neem and never will be. It's too slow, too repetitive (labor intensive) and I knew it was worse then reported.....I mean just how it affects the target insect and the results are unnerving! If you had any college chemistry or advanced agronomy, you understand my point on that...

FOLK's, there's some facts on Neem and you choose from there!
Click to expand...
Crazy shit! What do you use instead good sir?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift said:
I use Monterey garden spray which also has spinosad and is OMRI rated. I also sprinkle some diatomaceous earth on top layer of each container but since I've been amending my recycled soil with neem seed meal each time I've not seen a single gnat or thrip in my grow. Used to get them on the regular....wait, neem seeds are poison??
Click to expand...

LOL,,pressed seed hulls? Not enough I would imagine, or is the sky falling for you too?;-);-)

:hug:
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
I've never had mites in my lab and hope I never do. I wonder why I've never had them because I'm far from careful and actually quite laxidazial ( is that a word lol) when it comes to prevention. Is there something that is introducing these critters? I do live on the water and have tons of spiders so I wonder if that may be helping. When in soil, fungas knats were the thing that caused me mucho grief.
 
visajoe1

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I've never had mites in my lab and hope I never do. I wonder why I've never had them because I'm far from careful and actually quite laxidazial ( is that a word lol) when it comes to prevention. Is there something that is introducing these critters? I do live on the water and have tons of spiders so I wonder if that may be helping. When in soil, fungas knats were the thing that caused me mucho grief.
Click to expand...

I never spelled that word out either! Its a great one. Here it is: lack·a·dai·si·cal
 
thumper60

thumper60

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I've never had mites in my lab and hope I never do. I wonder why I've never had them because I'm far from careful and actually quite laxidazial ( is that a word lol) when it comes to prevention. Is there something that is introducing these critters? I do live on the water and have tons of spiders so I wonder if that may be helping. When in soil, fungas knats were the thing that caused me mucho grief.
Click to expand...
most comman way to catch mites is dirty cuts,lots of folks gotem don't know it
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
LOL,,pressed seed hulls? Not enough I would imagine, or is the sky falling for you too?;-);-)

:hug:
Click to expand...
Naw doc all is cool as far as I'm concerned; I don't like the smell of the neem seed meal when I add it to the mix so it seemed to me that bugs wouldn't like it either. Neem seed has npk value as well so it's win-win; sunny happy blue skies

Budley Doright said:
I've never had mites in my lab and hope I never do. I wonder why I've never had them because I'm far from careful and actually quite laxidazial ( is that a word lol) when it comes to prevention. Is there something that is introducing these critters? I do live on the water and have tons of spiders so I wonder if that may be helping. When in soil, fungas knats were the thing that caused me mucho grief.
Click to expand...
Gnats are not a big deal if you just keep the top layer dry and/or use a mulch. DE works great at preventing them and is a source of natural silica when it finally breaks down. I got spiders galore in my grow area & often use a shop vac to suck them fuckers up to control population. They are good to have around I think. Pretty sure I was getting thrips from bringing in bags of soil from various suppliers but since I now recycle my own soil in house and amend with neem seed meal I've not seen them back.
There are several kind soil mites and nematodes that are good to have in a healthy organic soil food web. They feed on the bad bugs & bacteria. Spider mites are like the borg or so I hear; never got them but they also get in from the outside by bringing in clones & whatnot from other grows...prevention is key; laxin like a mfer
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Yup the gnats didnt cause the plants any issues but aggravated the fuck out of me :(. It was the main reason I switched to hydro lol.
 
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Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
thumper60 said:
most comman way to catch mites is dirty cuts,lots of folks gotem don't know it
Click to expand...
My cuts are my own lol. We had a plant in the office that was infested so I put it outside and sprayed it with raid for a week straight .... no more little web weavin bastards so I guess raid for the win lol.
EDIT: it said it was organic ;).
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I've never had mites in my lab and hope I never do. I wonder why I've never had them because I'm far from careful and actually quite laxidazial ( is that a word lol) when it comes to prevention. Is there something that is introducing these critters? I do live on the water and have tons of spiders so I wonder if that may be helping. When in soil, fungas knats were the thing that caused me mucho grief.
Click to expand...
Get some clones from a friend or fellow grower. Boom. Instant mites lol.
 
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