Ethanol extraction lab on a budget - vacuum filtration advice

[cbdprospector]

I'm one of those people who are on their own developing meds for my dad with ALS, and my mom with Alzheimers. Been doing it for the last 5 years, happy to say they are both doing well and cannabis saved their lives.

Anyway, my "lab" has evolved from mason jars in the freezer (QWET) to:

- Cryo extraction using dry ice surrounding a stainless steel prep pan
- Filtration with coffee filter and gravity
- my chiller is a bucket with a water pump and ice
- the only legit piece of equipment is my rotovap, water bath and vacuum

I'm slowly trying to build the lab into using all legitimate equipment but have had no lab experience and am looking to RIU for advice.

I have a vacuum and would like to vacuum filtrate so I can get it done faster, any suggestions on a Buchner Funnel /Erlenmeyer Flask, and what size filter would you suggest.

Thank you!

 

[Fadedawg]

Get the largest Buchner that will fit. More surface area is faster.

We typically use a #1 Whatman filter for filtration and winterizing. Down to 0.2 micron syringe filters for polishing.

 

[gwpharms]

I wouldnt recommend you look here for advice but you will get opinions. I say Read a text book or something and learn for your self. Zubrick and vogels are a great start if you want to learn basic to advanced knowledge of equipment, aparatus, and about extraction filtration and distillation. ReCrystallization if you want to go that far.
Maybe you might want to look into a continuous extraction set up so as to get a more complete extraction than what you are getting with a cold quick wash. I like ye ol soxhlet but there's many better varriations out there that work on the same principles
You can clean up your extract through filtration so you dont need to do sub zero washes. I like carbon myself.
Hot etoh works better for stripping the goodies faster
But If you want to just do cold quick washes through a buchner that works good too. Id recommended about a 110mm fritted. Harder to clean but many other advantages imo. That's assuming you want to pack the funel with trim wash with etoh and suck it all through. Repete several times.
Either way vacuum filtration will make your life much easier. Get you a 1000ml flask and a 110mm medium flow frit. 24/40.
The ceramic funels with the holes in a rubber stopper on a filter flask work too. Some people know them as "coors funnels" i dont like them but thats just me.
Either way, Shouldn't be a lot of money and it will get your proverbial toe in the water.
Learn how to make filter cakes aka filter pads from various types of filter media and see what works for you. I like fine mesh carbon and celite 545 aw super cel hyflo and sometimes celite 240. Or 350 or 440. Depends what im doing.Get the pharma grade stuff if you go that route.
Your rotvap will make a great solvent reclaim/ "vacuum purge chamber " its a really fancy simple distillation reflux apparatus. Not necessary but very convenient.
Sounds like for what your doing you got everything you need other than a vacuum filtration set up.
Look into how other essential oils and extracts are made and purified. You will learn lots about what your doing witg cannabis. Its all organic chemistry. Its all connected

 

[Fadedawg]

If you are into books, I recommend Chemical Technicians Ready Reference Handbook, by Shugar and Ballinger, which is just chock full of the information you seek. In my Forth Edition, equipment and filter media starts on page 257.

I see used 4th editions available on Amazon for about $115 and the latest 5th edition for more.

 

[cbdprospector]

I wouldnt recommend you look here for advice but you will get opinions. I say Read a text book or something and learn for your self. Zubrick and vogels are a great start if you want to learn basic to advanced knowledge of equipment, aparatus, and about extraction filtration and distillation. ReCrystallization if you want to go that far.
Maybe you might want to look into a continuous extraction set up so as to get a more complete extraction than what you are getting with a cold quick wash. I like ye ol soxhlet but there's many better varriations out there that work on the same principles
You can clean up your extract through filtration so you dont need to do sub zero washes. I like carbon myself.
Hot etoh works better for stripping the goodies faster
But If you want to just do cold quick washes through a buchner that works good too. Id recommended about a 110mm fritted. Harder to clean but many other advantages imo. That's assuming you want to pack the funel with trim wash with etoh and suck it all through. Repete several times.
Either way vacuum filtration will make your life much easier. Get you a 1000ml flask and a 110mm medium flow frit. 24/40.
The ceramic funels with the holes in a rubber stopper on a filter flask work too. Some people know them as "coors funnels" i dont like them but thats just me.
Either way, Shouldn't be a lot of money and it will get your proverbial toe in the water.
Learn how to make filter cakes aka filter pads from various types of filter media and see what works for you. I like fine mesh carbon and celite 545 aw super cel hyflo and sometimes celite 240. Or 350 or 440. Depends what im doing.Get the pharma grade stuff if you go that route.
Your rotvap will make a great solvent reclaim/ "vacuum purge chamber " its a really fancy simple distillation reflux apparatus. Not necessary but very convenient.
Sounds like for what your doing you got everything you need other than a vacuum filtration set up.
Look into how other essential oils and extracts are made and purified. You will learn lots about what your doing witg cannabis. Its all organic chemistry. Its all connected

Oh yeah, I know all about opinions. When I first started growing I came here for advice on soil vs hydro - you can imagine how that went!

Yes, I want to learn everything I can - everything you mentioned as well as short path fractional distillation - I just don't have the access to it. My state is still in the dark ages so I have to learn everything on my own. I will definitely check out the books you mentioned, if you know of any resources particular to cannabis I would love to hear that too.

Thanks for all the advice

 

[cbdprospector]

If you are into books, I recommend Chemical Technicians Ready Reference Handbook, by Shugar and Ballinger, which is just chock full of the information you seek. In my Forth Edition, equipment and filter media starts on page 257.

I see used 4th editions available on Amazon for about $115 and the latest 5th edition for more.

Awesome - thank you for that!

 

[Fadedawg]

Check out Handbook of Laboratory Distillation by Krell and Lumb, printed in both German and English.

My copy is second edition English, but I'm really old and there may be later editions.

Also available at Amazon books

 

[gwpharms]

Wenn du das nicht lesen kannst, würde ich die englische Übersetzung empfehlen.
Er ist nur werfen Namen von Büchern aus klingender als ich, weil er von meiner Anwesenheit hier bedroht ist

 

[Fadedawg]

Wenn du das nicht lesen kannst, würde ich die englische Übersetzung empfehlen.
Er ist nur werfen Namen von Büchern aus klingender als ich, weil er von meiner Anwesenheit hier bedroht ist

Or roughly translated:

If you can not read this, I would recommend the English translation.
He's just throwing names from books out sounding more than I'm because he's threatened by my presence here

Are you really so arrogant that you believe providing the information the reader asked for is all about you?

What direct links did you give them to the information, beyond a self aggrandizing arm wave?

For what its worth however, I agree with your assessment regarding getting the English translation, given this is an English forum.

Just not the classic dead give away narcissistic part about you being the center of this universe.

 

[gwpharms]

No just thought it funny you had said your piece and moved on then jumped back in when i told the op to read a book or twoand explore for himself offline

" ooo ooo i have some books, my books are better like this one and that one... look at me over here im helping look what i can do." then you threw the German thing out there for some reason
That just made it funnier.
Thats like saying the bill if rights is also printed in english
every book ever written has been translated into just about any language you prefer. Thank you for clarification that you prefer the english

Sometimes less is more. Ya know what i mean?

 

[cbdprospector]

Thank you both for the information, both of you have given me great start.

Check out Handbook of Laboratory Distillation by Krell and Lumb, printed in both German and English.

My copy is second edition English, but I'm really old and there may be later editions.

Thank you for the suggestions, I actually found the 5th edition of the Chemical Technicians Ready Reference Handbook used for $26 so I'm getting that one. I was able to read the sample (which was the whole book online) and turn to the filtration part. That book covers everything

I wouldnt recommend you look here for advice but you will get opinions. I say Read a text book or something and learn for your self. Zubrick and vogels are a great start if you want to learn basic to advanced knowledge of equipment, aparatus, and about extraction filtration and distillation. ReCrystallization if you want to go that far.

I found "James W. Zubrick: The Organic Chem Lab Survival Manual, A Student's Guide to Techniques Seventh (7th) Edition" at a ridiculous $4. Great plain language for the newb as myself. If you have any other suggestions let me know.

Again, thank you both for the helpful info!

 

[cbdprospector]

Maybe you might want to look into a continuous extraction set up so as to get a more complete extraction than what you are getting with a cold quick wash. I like ye ol soxhlet but there's many better varriations out there that work on the same principles
You can clean up your extract through filtration so you dont need to do sub zero washes. I like carbon myself.
Hot etoh works better for stripping the goodies faster

I would love to put together an ethanol continuous loop system with a double jacked reactor like the one Genius Extraction sells. They want $235k for their system. The idea of a Hot extraction sounds perfect because the heating oil to strip it just makes sense. I saw the use of carbon to filter out the crap, again just makes sense.

I'll read up and keep asking questions and hopefully get to experiment with both and see what works best.

 

[gwpharms]

I would love to put together an ethanol continuous loop system with a double jacked reactor like the one Genius Extraction sells. They want $235k for their system. .

Yeah i have seen that too. Its an impressive turn key system with a more impressive price tag.
I like how it filters and pumps everything into the rotovap for reclaim with a button push.go from one operation to the next and dont even have to get your hands dirty.lol. the disadvantage of the hot etoh is that it pulls a LOT more chlorophyll than cold. Like all of it actually.
I say or IMO its still easy to remove without any significant loss if you do it right.
I always throw zubrick and or vogels out there as the old standard familiar texts because there easy to find reasonably cheap universally familiar and just full of great stuff. Purification of lab solvents should probably be in there as well. if you were marooned on an island with just your labware and those 3 books you would probably be ok. Even if you are a newbie
However there is a thousand great chem books out there as you can see. Read as many as you can i say.

 

[Fadedawg]

No just thought it funny you had said your piece and moved on then jumped back in when i told the op to read a book or twoand explore for himself offline

" ooo ooo i have some books, my books are better like this one and that one... look at me over here im helping look what i can do." then you threw the German thing out there for some reason
That just made it funnier.
Thats like saying the bill if rights is also printed in english
every book ever written has been translated into just about any language you prefer. Thank you for clarification that you prefer the english

Sometimes less is more. Ya know what i mean?

This relates to the subject of this thread how?

It adds to the quality of the thread how?

Why do you think everything has to be about you?

 

[gwpharms]

Im not at all
im making it about you.
I had totally moved on but only came back to pick on you. You keep falling for it and i like to laugh,
What does the fact that every chem book ever published has a German edition have to do with this thred?

 

[Fadedawg]

Im not at all
im making it about you.
I had totally moved on but only came back to pick on you. You keep falling for it and i like to laugh,
What does the fact that every chem book ever published has a German edition have to do with this thred?

The laugh continues to be at you brother, not with you.

Nothing you've said to me so far has anything to do with anything but picking a fight and you continue to prove my point.

Clearly your ego so fragile that besides having to hide behind someone else's honorable name, while tossing about platitudes like they were insightful gold, like a child, you see everything as about you.

Here is a tidbit if interest from the front cover, but even though I'm proud of my own German heritage, I'm not so arrogant as to think everything is printed in German. This one however started in German.

 

[gwpharms]

What does that have amything to do with anything other than stroking your own fragile ego. Then you try and mirror your inadiquacies onto me.
Your body may be old but your mentality and whit is about 10. And i believe you have assbergers
All laughs at you on our end my friend. Seriously we have people falling out of chairs in our office because of you. Someone is going to get hurt.and then you stroke your ego more bu throwing that up there. "Look this one is in german i can read this i own this book im smart listen to me look at me"

If anything i tell people not to listen to me i just tell them to get the hell out of here and listen to themselves.

Maybe it would make you more proud of your heritage to know that German Austrian chemist pretty much wrote the gospel of chemistry and those chem books you read were all published first in German and then translated to english. Maybe you will note for us some of the germanic names of authors equipment apparatus reactions reagents etc.....that will make you feel special wont it.

Common what will you spew out next we have 5 people here on a Saturday that could really use a laugh and you generate great ones

 

[Fadedawg]

I would love to put together an ethanol continuous loop system with a double jacked reactor like the one Genius Extraction sells. They want $235k for their system. The idea of a Hot extraction sounds perfect because the heating oil to strip it just makes sense. I saw the use of carbon to filter out the crap, again just makes sense.

I'll read up and keep asking questions and hopefully get to experiment with both and see what works best.

Hot ethanol reflux is fast and does a good job extracting everything, including non target constituents like chlorophyll and water solubles.

It is so intuitive to start there that I did also, but moved on after I discovered my losses removing the non targeted constituents.

Charcoal filtering takes out more than just the non targeted elements. They remove some of the targeted elements as well, resulting in a reduced yield and an offset to gains achieved by the hot process.

Cannabis essential oil is a mixture of C-10 through about C-30 molecules, and Dr Robert Melamede believes that their medicinal effects are due to the entourage effect of all of the terpenes and terpenoids present. Removing some or all changes the entourage effect.

https://www.medicaljane.com/directory/professional/dr-robert-melamede/

Your first post suggests you are extracting for medical qualities, so suggest that you contact Dr Bob and ask him his views on medical properties and entourage effect. He is a delightful man and easy to talk to at a common level.

As has been duly noted, you can get more well read opinions from forums than information gleaned from hands on experience, so if after talking to Dr Bob, Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and Biochemistry from the City University of New York. Dr. Melamede retired as Chairman of the Biology Department at University of Colorado, Colorado Springs in 2005, you wish to further discuss extraction techniques to preserve the entourage effects, send me an e-mail to [email protected], and I will connect you to our bio technologist with more than a decade of hands on experience extracting, and you can share his thoughts.

I will also connect you with Carla, whom did extensive Alzeimer's research on her mom and even a dog,
https://skunkpharmresearch.com/alzheimers-mom-and-cannabis/

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/anna-the-dog-and-alzheimers/

Lastly I can connect you with our Dr Kate, Pharm D, licensed compounding pharmacist, if you would like to discuss formulating.

That will insure that you are talking to professionals, instead of opinionated forum denizens (like me), and provide the best medications possible for your moms Alzheimer's. Too serious a subject to take lightly or counsel with fools.

 

[Fadedawg]

What does that have amything to do with anything other than stroking your own fragile ego. Then you try and mirror your inadiquacies onto me.
Your body may be old but your mentality and whit is about 10. And i believe you have assbergers
All laughs at you on our end my friend. Seriously we have people falling out of chairs in our office because of you. Someone is going to get hurt.and then you stroke your ego more bu throwing that up there. "Look this one is in german i can read this i own this book im smart listen to me look at me"

If anything i tell people not to listen to me i just tell them to get the hell out of here and listen to themselves.

Maybe it would make you more proud of your heritage to know that German Austrian chemist pretty much wrote the gospel of chemistry and those chem books you read were all published first in German and then translated to english. Maybe you will note for us some of the germanic names of authors equipment apparatus reactions reagents etc.....that will make you feel special wont it.

Common what will you spew out next we have 5 people here on a Saturday that could really use a laugh and you generate great ones

Blah, blah, blah, more BS and zero content.

Do you not have anything more constructive to do with your time young man?

 

[gwpharms]

Yeah. This
But we can multi task for a while this is hands off right now. But i Have to start stripping mangos in a few hours so what else do you have for us? Your memes barley generated a chuckle