Organic vs. hydro... another rant.

[greasemonkeymann]

Back when i first bought LEDs they weren't what they are now, mostly crappy blurple panels back then that costed a fortune, nothing as good as what's out now but i'd still take my CMH over any DIY LED

The CMH also is a great veg light, the 4k bulb is the closest to the actual sun that i have ever used, it is true full spectrum with IR/UV/ and a very balanced spectral graph, the square wave technology really works well for grow lights since it evens the spectral distribution out. i also run some CXA2590's they work well and i been thinking about upgrading, also running cree XTE white/red those work great.

ohhhh I hear THAT..
I've been preaching about metal halides for yrs and yrs, when I first mixed a 400hps with a 400 mh back in like 2001 or so I had such a completely different result than a hps alone, even the glands them selves appeared larger.
but I always run a 1/1 ratio of hps to mh, my BEST results were a 2/1 ratio of HPS to MH
2 600 w hps and a 600mh in the middle, with overlapping light coverage, and rotation of plants weekly
I also LOVE the high UV bulb, the 10k mh bulb
I stumbled upon a solution to the powder mold I've been getting in the forest, the 10k 600mh evidently neutralizes the spores.
it's all conjecture, but I'm fairly confident that it's the difference, when I first got it about 18 months ago, i had three grows in a row during the last rainy season with zero PM, and then I had to run my flower room with just a hps and boom, pm problems..
verrrry interesting though

 

[southernguy99]

I like hydro as equally I do organic and If both are done right the end results are very much the same I no people have a hard time believing that. so why is that ? lol well after reading some of the posts in here and going through the hydro section it hit me ,and the only thing I could think of is WOW people really don't have a clue and I don't mean that in a bad way. if your going to hydro store to spend hundreds or thousands on a hydro set up you just got ripped off , if your going to a store to by bottles and bottles of the shit they sell off the shelf you just got ripped off and if your running bleach in your system shut it the fuck down a quite.no wonder everyone put there system in the attic they don't don't now how to use it, I will give you organic guys credit for at least passing on enough info and keeping things real for the next generation . I think the hydro became commercialized a lot people trying to get rich of it and building the culture that people think they have to got a hydro store . I think the true art and knowledge of the old timers is forgotten because its not on here .

for the guys not running MH your really missing out plants love a high UVB in the last couple of weeks

 

[Johnny-mariseed]

DYK @Johnny-mariseed, that "OrganicTM" is unfortunately just a marketing tool, a mere marketing cliche used by industry to bait good people. Organics draws more from emotion than reason--logical fallacies everywhere. People have strong emotions and opinions towards organics, which really only is great for industry profits, but ultimately we need rationality and reason if we really want to work with nature.

Organics has weak scientific benefit compared to well maintained hydroponics. For instance, I have major drought issues, my city is running out of water, and soil gardens use much more water than hydroponics, thus soil really is not better for nature in this regard.

Nutrients and taste and smells: plants really don't give a shit if they get their iron from monsanto or maharajah-blessed moon-blood (plants are nihilists), genetics and energy intake naturally determines most of the taste and smell. Plants only need mineral nutrients to perform best, though chelates and other organic compounds and beneficial microorganisms can help. I have seen peer-reviewed publications dismissing organics and soil being better than hydroponics in terms of aesthetic qualities (taste, smell, colour etc) and ecology. And to think of it, it seems far-fetched that shit can improve the smell and taste of anything.

Practically: yes a lot can go wrong with hydro, and it is intimidating, but that's generally how plants are in the first place. Hydroponics is a science and an art.

So it's myopic to say an absolute hydroponic or organic paradigm is ultimately the best, though personally I lean towards the efficiency of hydroponics being better for cash cropping, mother nature, and modern urbanised society. Nature can benefit from chemicals and artificial things too, the world isn't so black and white.

BEST ANSWER EVER! I don't agree with all of it... a respectable answer and very well dissected and analyzed though. At least you didn't call me an obscenity and presented your case respectably. Agreed to disagree.

 

[Johnny-mariseed]

I like hydro as equally I do organic and If both are done right the end results are very much the same I no people have a hard time believing that. so why is that ? lol well after reading some of the posts in here and going through the hydro section it hit me ,and the only thing I could think of is WOW people really don't have a clue and I don't mean that in a bad way. if your going to hydro store to spend hundreds or thousands on a hydro set up you just got ripped off , if your going to a store to by bottles and bottles of the shit they sell off the shelf you just got ripped off and if your running bleach in your system shut it the fuck down a quite.no wonder everyone put there system in the attic they don't don't now how to use it, I will give you organic guys credit for at least passing on enough info and keeping things real for the next generation . I think the hydro became commercialized a lot people trying to get rich of it and building the culture that people think they have to got a hydro store . I think the true art and knowledge of the old timers is forgotten because its not on here .

for the guys not running MH your really missing out plants love a high UVB in the last couple of weeks

I'm in the same situation, got a whole hydroponics system just sitting in my garage, wish i had known sooner cause it wasn't a cheap system....also got a couple hundred dollars worth of old bottled nutrients collecting dust....I really could have saved myself some money looking back......

I also wasted a lot of money on LEDs .....sad panda

Didnt like the leds??

 

[Trichometry101]

Lol at "hydro can be as good"

Nope. Organic soil can reach so many more levels that hydro doesn't even acknowledge. I learnt hydro because its the stuff that upsets your stomach instead of soothing it.


Hydro is a joke. A racket. Keep dumping those micros in your salt tank, lol. Real beneficial in sterile solutions hahaha! And those fake scents and sugar contaminants, love my throat closing off and puking from the taste of tainted magnesium sulfate sugarbud!

Hydro will get you a high thc number. Thats it. This isnt 1997. More to it than a thc number. All that tastless dry thc, Too bad the smoke can never be satisfying even in the rare situation that it's actual flushed.

 

[hillbill]

i grow organically and enjoy reusing my mixes and building a living soil. Others here are wizards at growing with chemical food. Been smoking and vaping for a long while and have yet to see a difference in well grown/cured product between hydro and natural grown when I don't know the answer first.

It does seem though that the weed-hydro world endures incredible product propaganda advertising Miracle Spring Water or some damn thing. Super this or Maxi that!

 

[chemphlegm]

I hear growers defending hydro but not users

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I see breeders descriptions say organic will bring out the best or hydro will give best results but I wonder if even this is just driven by emotion?

On the other hand the way the genetics were grown in breeding may have an influence.

 

[chemphlegm]

gotta give it my hydro, funner and faster than dirt, cleaner too, but maybe thats because of all the mopping........
but for pictures, flavors, terpene profiles, full expressions, I cant do better than what I've done so far, pro mix for the win

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

gotta give it my hydro, funner and faster than dirt, cleaner too, but maybe thats because of all the mopping........
but for pictures, flavors, terpene profiles, full expressions, I cant do better than what I've done so far, pro mix for the win

I am going to try something similar to your method soon my friend but I am going to have to try a water culture system too eventually. I think with the proper input. Like pure Blend tea. It may compete.

I still think Environment and stability and the actual Grow going smoothly make more of a difference. And that when a grower claims better results with one it may be that grower just jived with that system more.

 

[hillbill]

Differences in grows exist within hydro methods even and particular nute and feeding schedule that are used or not. Different results can be had in soil and mixes vary wildly.

So it would not be unusual for different results to occur between organic mix and hydroponics. My thought is that a lot of ways of growing are indeed effective and the plant genes give the potential. Also, some very conflicted growers use hydro and soil both. Whatever makes you or me happy.

 

[DonTesla]

Just smelled some plants in the organic sealed room...

One smells like Sweet Tarts and cotton Candy

Another like Lavender and Pure Strong Cocaine

Another yet like Roasted Chicken and Pepper Chips

one smells like .. aw man, I don't even know how to describe some of these.. SO complex and SO well rounded and elusive! I love organics but hydro helps me love it more so I love hydro too, lol!

 

[hillbill]

Just smelled some plants in the organic sealed room...

One smells like Sweet Tarts and cotton Candy

Another like Lavender and Pure Strong Cocaine

Another yet like Roasted Chicken and Pepper Chips

one smells like .. aw man, I don't even know how to describe some of these.. SO complex and SO well rounded and elusive! I love organics but hydro helps me love it more so I love hydro too, lol!

Cannabis is of no help for dyslexia as I just spent five minutes trying to imagine what "roasted chicken and paper clips" smelled like. Danm it!

 

[KryptoBud]

This is an interesting experiment on this subject done with tomatoes.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229871110_Impact_of_organic_and_inorganic_fertilizers_on_yield_taste_and_nutritional_quality_of_tomatoes

Abstract
In a greenhouse experiment, tomato plants were grown in sand culture to test whether different fertilization regimes (mineral or organic fertilizers) at low (500 mg N plant–1 week–1) and high (750 mg N plant–1 week–1) nitrogen levels affected yield, nutritional quality, and taste of the fruits. In the mineral-fertilizer treatments, nitrate- or ammonium-dominated nutrient solutions were used. Organic fertilizer was supplied as fresh cut grass-clover mulch (a total of 2.4 kg and 3.6 kg were given per plant at low and high N level, respectively) without (orgN) and with additional sulfur fertilization (orgN+S). Yields of red tomatoes from the organically fertilized plants were significantly lower (1.3–1.8 kg plant–1) than yields from plants that received mineral fertilizer (2.2–2.8 kg plant–1). At the final harvest, yields of green tomatoes in the organic treatment with extra sulfur were similar (1.1–1.2 kg plant–1) to the NO-dominated treatments at both nutrient levels and the NH-dominated treatment at high nutrient level. Organic fertilizers released nutrients more slowly than mineral fertilizers, resulting in decreased S and P concentrations in the leaves, which limited growth and yield in the orgN treatments. Analysis of tomato fruits and plants as well as taste-test results gave no conclusive answer on the relationship between sugar or acid contents in the fruits, macronutrient content of plant leaves and fruits, and perceived taste. Sugar contents were higher in the fruits given mineral fertilizer, whereas acid contents were higher in the fruits given organic fertilizer. Preference in taste was given to the tomatoes from plants fertilized with the nitrate-dominated nutrient solution and to those given organic fertilizer with extra sulfur. Thus, a reduction in growth, which was expected to lead to a higher concentration of compounds like sugars and acids, did not result in better taste. Overall, it can be concluded that an appropriate nutrient supply is crucial to reach high yields and good taste.

Impact of organic and inorganic fertilizers on yield, taste, and nutritional quality of tomatoes (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229871110_Impact_of_organic_and_inorganic_fertilizers_on_yield_taste_and_nutritional_quality_of_tomatoes [accessed May 14, 20

 

[REALSTYLES]

This is an interesting experiment on this subject done with tomatoes.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229871110_Impact_of_organic_and_inorganic_fertilizers_on_yield_taste_and_nutritional_quality_of_tomatoes

Abstract
In a greenhouse experiment, tomato plants were grown in sand culture to test whether different fertilization regimes (mineral or organic fertilizers) at low (500 mg N plant–1 week–1) and high (750 mg N plant–1 week–1) nitrogen levels affected yield, nutritional quality, and taste of the fruits. In the mineral-fertilizer treatments, nitrate- or ammonium-dominated nutrient solutions were used. Organic fertilizer was supplied as fresh cut grass-clover mulch (a total of 2.4 kg and 3.6 kg were given per plant at low and high N level, respectively) without (orgN) and with additional sulfur fertilization (orgN+S). Yields of red tomatoes from the organically fertilized plants were significantly lower (1.3–1.8 kg plant–1) than yields from plants that received mineral fertilizer (2.2–2.8 kg plant–1). At the final harvest, yields of green tomatoes in the organic treatment with extra sulfur were similar (1.1–1.2 kg plant–1) to the NO-dominated treatments at both nutrient levels and the NH-dominated treatment at high nutrient level. Organic fertilizers released nutrients more slowly than mineral fertilizers, resulting in decreased S and P concentrations in the leaves, which limited growth and yield in the orgN treatments. Analysis of tomato fruits and plants as well as taste-test results gave no conclusive answer on the relationship between sugar or acid contents in the fruits, macronutrient content of plant leaves and fruits, and perceived taste. Sugar contents were higher in the fruits given mineral fertilizer, whereas acid contents were higher in the fruits given organic fertilizer. Preference in taste was given to the tomatoes from plants fertilized with the nitrate-dominated nutrient solution and to those given organic fertilizer with extra sulfur. Thus, a reduction in growth, which was expected to lead to a higher concentration of compounds like sugars and acids, did not result in better taste. Overall, it can be concluded that an appropriate nutrient supply is crucial to reach high yields and good taste.

Impact of organic and inorganic fertilizers on yield, taste, and nutritional quality of tomatoes (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229871110_Impact_of_organic_and_inorganic_fertilizers_on_yield_taste_and_nutritional_quality_of_tomatoes [accessed May 14, 20

What about the fungi and bacteria? They break down minerals and feed the roots thus feeding the plants and that experiment was done is sand not organic living soil.

 

[KryptoBud]

What about the fungi and bacteria? They break down minerals and feed the roots thus feeding the plants and that experiment was done is sand not organic living soil.

Grow how you like, if you think one tastes better than the other. I don't think taste can be argued some people like coke some like pepsi. I thought it was an interesting read. I only posted the first part, click the link and scroll down to the bottom there are more experiments and results. I guess organic can only be in living soil?

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Grow how you like, if you think one tastes better than the other. I don't think taste can be argued some people like coke some like pepsi. I thought it was an interesting read. I only posted the first part, click the link and scroll down to the bottom there are more experiments and results. I guess organic can only be in living soil?

I think they use the organic fertilizer like chemical fertilizer instead of feeding with future needs in mind as the organic soil are not instantly available.

The use Pure Blend Pro in ocean forest which is all natural ingredients and can yield equal to a chemical based fert. Just took some practice.

Taste can be great either way.

 

[Dumme]

Seriously, the debate is moot to me as I grow hydro-organic. Hydro mean soil-less. Organic is a classification. How is this a debate?

 

[REALSTYLES]

I think they use the organic fertilizer like chemical fertilizer instead of feeding with future needs in mind as the organic soil are not instantly available.

The use Pure Blend Pro in ocean forest which is all natural ingredients and can yield equal to a chemical based fert. Just took some practice.

Taste can be great either way.

Sorry but Pure Blend Pro and OFFF not OMRI so not really organic

Seriously, the debate is moot to me as I grow hydro-organic. Hydro mean soil-less. Organic is a classification. How is this a debate?

what do mean by soil-less? If you use coco you can feed it compost tea and amend it with EWC and use beneficial bacteria, fungi and Mycorrhizae and then there is Aquaponics that is more like hydro organics. There is also KNF that I've been applying to my ROLS regimen

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Sorry but Pure Blend Pro and OFFF not OMRI so not really organic


what do mean by soil-less? If you use coco you can feed it compost tea and amend it with EWC and use beneficial bacteria, fungi and Mycorrhizae and then there is Aquaponics that is more like hydro organics. There is also KNF that I've been applying to my ROLS regimen

OMRI is only one company that is paid to certify organic. I said natural. The fert is made of worm castings and seaweed mostly. The only thing not OMRI "organic" is the process they extract some of the ingredients.

It is just an opinion. Ocean forest is potting soil. It also is not "organic" according to them. But it is all natural.

I could amend my soil and topdress with an "OMRI" fertilizer for similar results. What is the difference?