Organic vs. hydro... another rant.

[Dumme]

what do mean by soil-less? If you use coco you can feed it compost tea and amend it with EWC and use beneficial bacteria, fungi and Mycorrhizae and then there is Aquaponics that is more like hydro organics. There is also KNF that I've been applying to my ROLS regimen

I have a medium sized recycling aquaponic system; about 1300 gallons and growing.
In this system, I grow hydroponicly. Soil-less, meaning the roots are in net pot only, with a neoprene top, and also aeroponicly hanging with aquaponics feeding and spraying the roots below.
In other plants in the same system, I grow with recycled coco, also hydroponically, and aeroponically, as the roots are hanging freely below the coco, and being sprayed with aquaponic water.
And then there's my (non-hydro) soil growing plants, also in the same system, with roots hanging down below the soil, and also aeroponically sprayed with aquaponic water.
My aeroponics is low pressure as my pump continuously cycles @ 5100 gal/h.

Lastly I have a wicking hydroponic flood table, filled with hydroton, that I use as a transition station, of sorts, between transplanting of clones. I use both hydroponics and soil in this area.

...Again, all in aquaponic, all organic, 99% aeroponic, and halfly hydroponic & halfly soil.

Generally speaking, I don't use teas, although I've used them in the past.

I still very confused as to how you can compare the use of soil(less) to a classification of organic. It's apples and oranges.

 

[green_machine_two9er]

I have a medium sized recycling aquaponic system; about 1300 gallons and growing.
In this system, I grow hydroponicly. Soil-less, meaning the roots are in net pot only, with a neoprene top, and also aeroponicly hanging with aquaponics feeding and spraying the roots below.
In other plants in the same system, I grow with recycled coco, also hydroponically, and aeroponically, as the roots are hanging freely below the coco, and being sprayed with aquaponic water.
And then there's my (non-hydro) soil growing plants, also in the same system, with roots hanging down below the soil, and also aeroponically sprayed with aquaponic water.
My aeroponics is low pressure as my pump continuously cycles @ 5100 gal/h.

Lastly I have a wicking hydroponic flood table, filled with hydroton, that I use as a transition station, of sorts, between transplanting of clones. I use both hydroponics and soil in this area.

...Again, all in aquaponic, all organic, 99% aeroponic, and halfly hydroponic & halfly soil.

Generally speaking, I don't use teas, although I've used them in the past.

I still very confused as to how you can compare the use of soil(less) to a classification of organic. It's apples and oranges.

Maybe I missed something but I think although your system sounds awesome. And could be classified as all organic one thing that's missing is the living soil environment. Where one can water and let the microbes do the work as far as feeding and working with the plant symbioticslly along with fungal networks to keep plants as happy and healthy as possible. Soilless to me is of course hydro. And anyone using bottled nutrients on soil, even if they are classified as organic is not going to be a living soil grow. Has nothing to do with classification. But more how the plants takes its nutrition Imo.

 

[Dumme]

Maybe I missed something but I think although your system sounds awesome. And could be classified as all organic one thing that's missing is the living soil environment. Where one can water and let the microbes do the work as far as feeding and working with the plant symbioticslly along with fungal networks to keep plants as happy and healthy as possible. Soilless to me is of course hydro. And anyone using bottled nutrients on soil, even if they are classified as organic is not going to be a living soil grow. Has nothing to do with classification. But more how the plants takes its nutrition Imo.

Here is an example of soil-aeroponics within my system.

There's plenty of microbes within my system, and within the hydro, and soil areas.

 

[Chunky Stool]

gotta give it my hydro, funner and faster than dirt, cleaner too, but maybe thats because of all the mopping........
but for pictures, flavors, terpene profiles, full expressions, I cant do better than what I've done so far, pro mix for the win

I thought pro mix was technically a soil-less medium (no nutes).

 

[Dumme]

I thought pro mix was technically a soil-less medium (no nutes).

You're correct, it is.

 

[green_machine_two9er]

Here is an example of soil-aeroponics within my system.

There's plenty of microbes within my system, and within the hydro, and soil areas.

Couldn't see anything. My phone is probable all fed up. So what do you feed? Just water? Are you Phing water?
For me claiming to be fully living organic soil means never cracking any bottle the whole grow and reusing soil time and time again

 

[chemphlegm]

I thought pro mix was technically a soil-less medium (no nutes).

it is, and I amend it with organic material and water over it.

I wonder if soil has peat in it

 

[Dumme]

Couldn't see anything. My phone is probable all fed up. So what do you feed? Just water? Are you Phing water?
For me claiming to be fully living organic soil means never cracking any bottle the whole grow and reusing soil time and time again

I only adjust the pH of the water if emergencies arise, like mechanical overflow problems and spills, where I'm required to replace hundreds of gallons of water. It's happen before, a couple of times, due to design flaws in the system, as I keep changing things, and building new addons. Generally I just add about 15-25 gallons of tap water (+8.5pH), to top off the system, and let nature take it's course. The pH in aquaponics naturally lowers due to the nitrification of NH4 or ammonia.

I do amend my water's nutrient base to my personal mix, using stuff like organic Rock Phosphate, organic Gypsum, organic Potash, etc. I use a lot of DE food grade, as its a great source of silica. Even the fish food I use is organic, called "aquaorganic"

 

[chemphlegm]

wonder how many organic growers water their plants with phthalate rich garden hoses not even safe for drinking?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

we should just make a thread asking if we prefer blondes or brunettes?
slim girls or thick ones..
its all preference fellas...
I like what I like, and know better to try and convince others

 

[chemphlegm]

@greasemonkeymann i could do without red heads. thats about all I've figured out through the years.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Here is an example of soil-aeroponics within my system.

There's plenty of microbes within my system, and within the hydro, and soil areas.

I see you added some rock phosphate to your system. I thought just fish poo was used lol

 

[greasemonkeymann]

wonder how many organic growers water their plants with phthalate rich garden hoses not even safe for drinking?

I know of many, many organic growers that are religious about their soil inputs whilst still using miticides for their preventative mites
sprays for molds..etc...
or plastic containers for their plants...
remember it's 1,2 4 and 5 are the good ones, that's the little recycling triangle thingy at the bottom of the plastic containers.
3, 6 and 7 are baaaad

these guys here

 

[greasemonkeymann]

@greasemonkeymann i could do without red heads. thats about all I've figured out through the years.

phew.... not me my friend...
I like small blonde girls personally, offsets my large linebacker frame, and usually they are a good amount of crazy, and somehow I crave instability in my life.
not an Asian girl fan though.. not sure why many are into them
i'd rather be single than to be with a girl I didn't drool over though
sorta the same with growing, i'd rather not grow than to grow chemical hydro herb.
see how we came round full circle there?

 

[Chunky Stool]

we should just make a thread asking if we prefer blondes or brunettes?
slim girls or thick ones..
its all preference fellas...
I like what I like, and know better to try and convince others

People are different?
Derp!
Nobody is wrong.
Has anyone considered the possibility that choosing a growing style is like choosing the proper pet to match your personality?
If you are kinda flaky and forget shit, then organic soil is the way to go. If your soil mix is right for the current growth stage, this is the easiest & most forgiving.
If you're a perfectionist & really into precision, hydro is the perfect choice.
I like both, but it depends on the circumstances. Right now sunlight is free and organic soil outdoors is the perfect option. I fucked up my soil mix so I've had to supplement with synthetic nutes & organic tea, but it's all good as long as the final product is acceptable. The only time I cosider a grow to be substandard, is when I can't blend it with varios other bud to create a good smokeable doob. If it's "unblendable", I'll use it for butter. Some would use it for hash, but I don't.

 

[Dumme]

I see you added some rock phosphate to your system. I thought just fish poo was used lol

Aquaponics is aquaculture and horticulture, combined.

99% of the phosphate in my system is through my fish feed, which may include:

Organic Rice Bran, Organic Canola Meal, Organic Whole Corn, Organic Alfalfa Meal, Organic Linseed Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Sulfur, Organic Oat Groats, Organic Sugarcane Molasses, Reed-Sedge Peat, Diatomaceous Earth, Copper Sulfate, Attapulgite Clay, Calcium Pantothenate, Monosodium Phosphate, Salt, Organic Dried Kelp, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Bentonite, Magnesium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Culture, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Sodium Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, Citric Acid, Vitamin B12, Organic Lecithin, Manganous Oxide, Magnesium Sulphate, Calcium Sulphate, Organic Garlic, Organic Fenugreek, Niacin, Folic Acid, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Acetate, Organic Dried Feed Grade Milk, Organic Egg Product, Organic Rice Hulls, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Organic Cloves, Silicon Dioxide, Organic Barley, Glycine, Vitamin D3, Acetic Acid, Calcium Hydroxide, Organic Dandelion, Calcium Acetate, Organic Parsley, Organic Althea Root, Organic Dried Tomato Pomice, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Organic Horseradish, Organic Licorice, Organic Sweet Orange Peel, Organic Aloe Vera Gel Concentrate, Organic Peppermint, Organic Calendula, Organic Cayenne Pepper, Organic Ginger, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Sage, Organic Common Fennel, Organic Thyme, Organic Lemon Grass, Organic Elder Flowers, Organic Papain, Organic Basil, Organic Violet Leaves, Organic Coconut Flour, Organic Juniper Berries

 

[greasemonkeymann]

it is, and I amend it with organic material and water over it.

I wonder if soil has peat in it

yea, the definition of "soil" is so damn vague..
but nothing wrong with peat or promix at all.
technically it's humus too.
I use a bale of promix every 3 yrs or so to reamend with peat, after 3 yrs it's all gone, it continues to degrade in a live organic soil, fairly quick considering the peat is already yrs and yrs old, in fact hundreds if not thousands of yrs old in some areas.
peat does extremely well in an anaerobic environment, but if you aerate it? and have it in a super active organic soil mix with all sorts of fungal and bacterial diversity?
well the peat doesn't last long.. in fact i'm fairly certain coco coir lasts longer than peat does

 

[hillbill]

yea, the definition of "soil" is so damn vague..
but nothing wrong with peat or promix at all.
technically it's humus too.
I use a bale of promix every 3 yrs or so to reamend with peat, after 3 yrs it's all gone, it continues to degrade in a live organic soil, fairly quick considering the peat is already yrs and yrs old, in fact hundreds if not thousands of yrs old in some areas.
peat does extremely well in an anaerobic environment, but if you aerate it? and have it in a super active organic soil mix with all sorts of fungal and bacterial diversity?
well the peat doesn't last long.. in fact i'm fairly certain coco coir lasts longer than peat does

Plants and the herd really do eat. I also wonder about vegan organics view on worm castings and insect frass as well as insect shells and the larvae remains in compost.

 

[karmaxul]

This is feeding straight water using only castings, peat and clay. Some flavors last an hour and smoke all day with out worry of a sore throat.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Plants and the herd really do eat. I also wonder about vegan organics view on worm castings and insect frass as well as insect shells and the larvae remains in compost.

yet another reason why i find veganics a lli annoying.. especially considering the whole premise of organics is predicated on microbial interaction... you know.. the microbes that are creatures/animals/not vegan...
and even if they didn't rely on that, the earthworms are an integral part of any organic grow in my opinion.

granted there is a lil scientific merit to the vegan concept, considering the plant wouldn't typically have any sort of animal byproduct in the natural world, and even further the nutrients in vegetable inputs are waaay more readily absorbed and readily available compared to animal inputs, bone meals and such require a good amount of time to be broken down into an actual useable form of nutrients, and often needing specific conditions to even be cycled to begin with, an example is the slightly acidic conditions needed to break down bonemeal.
now, that all being said, i still find it a lil annoying, course somehow the trivial things annoy me in my world more than the important shit...
but i digress.
i do have a plan for a vegan grow soil mix that i'm eager to try, however it's not really for the whole veganics thing, i want to do a "free" grow, where all i use is dandelions, comfrey, nettles, cannabis leaves, and compost

but that's just to see what i can do with no money