Is anyone talking about steam distillation? or oil fractitioning? let's talk stills

[natureboygrower]

Anyone have a link to a proper chiller? Already sourced my Welch 1400 pump, glassware, mantle, probes, etc. Chiller is the last piece of the processing puzzle.

to cool your column/condenser water? i made one out of an old mini fridge.had a small container i filled with ice,water, salt and the pump that fit perfectly in the fridge with the lines running through the top.i could get the temp below freezing with the salt and only had to change ice every5-6 hours.it was bulky but it did a nice job.might not be the best setup for you though(especially if you can afford a chiller,im after a pump first.where did you source yours if you dont mind me asking?)
edit
Yeezus i just googled that pump!! and here i am explaining a diy chiller!nevermind,my bad lol

 

[natureboygrower]

You were roughly 4 years ahead of the times.

i think ppl are doing this,its just not as popular because its more work and no youtube videos on it

 

[eugeneoregon]

@eugeneoregon ur system is more suited for a metal still...not glass...this seems down right dangerous in the fasion ur doing. I guess not as scary as open blasting bho but idk...id definitely try ur setup with ethanol minus the steam injection rather add vaccum an cow receiver

Steam distillation in the manner depicted is taught in secondary education courses. The danger is from burns. If you ever worked with a tea pot you know how quick steam can burn you. Additionally this is art and not science, however, current thinking regarding steam distillation is to limit the size of the boiling flask to 250ml, like shown. The explosive pops from tiny pockets of superheated steam are thought to be safely contained in flask of this size or smaller.

You are correct that a metal boiling flask would be sturdier, however I do not have one. So instead I employed steam distillation as taught in secondary courses while observing the safety rules. My steam injector has a natural failsafe point in the unlikely event that pressures build dangerously This would be an extreme situation, but if it did occur the rubber hose would fail and depart before the glass ruptured. The hose is intentionally pointed away from the operator.

You did not mention which portion of my experiement that troubled you, so,my assumption of course was that you recognized the dangers of superheated steam, if it occurs. The flask is wrapped in fiberglass cloth for insulation plus containment should a catastrophic failure occur. The steam injector is very quickly disabled and moved safely if needed.

Is there another aspect of safety that I should be observing?

 

[eugeneoregon]

Hi Eugene

I had a question and you seemed more knowledgeable then most so would like to ask you a question or run through something with you.

Currently am employing an extraction method using IPA, soaking the plant matter, then filtering off the liquid. Followed by boiling off the IPA in a rice cooker leaving behind the extract which I decarboxylate for a further 30-45 minutes. The quality of the outcome is always good but obviously it has alot of plant matter and other components (pinene, turpenes etc) in it making it hard to judge purity and strength, considering this is being used to help treat a cancer patient I believe this to be important.

I like your method of distillation and am interested but I'm trying to look at a way to simplify the procedure to make it more '1 pot' sort of method. I understand the process you are following and ideally would be the way to go, but for the sake of simplicity I was thinking of the following.

Using a pressure cooker I was thinking of boiling the plant directly, after being ground up. Then using copper pipe directly connected to the pressure cooker which will transfer the heat quite well down the copper pipe so help with with condensing back into a liquid.

Im curious if you think it would be effective without doing an alcohol extraction first, I believe it would take longer. Also since not using a steam injection into the boiling flask would also take longer but still be effective? What do you believe is a viable method of seperating the water and oil from the end product?

Im posting this on behalf of my mate who I assist and am just trying to come up with a viable solution to make what he's already doing more 'measurable'

Thanks for any input or suggestions and your time.

I have done steam distillation without a steam injector on already extracted oil. It is problematic to say the least, but it can work albeit at greatly reduced efficiency. As far as extracting oils from water the simplest method is using a few milliliters of hexane, maybe ten or so, and add it to the emulsion of water and oil. Hexane and water do not mix at all and the hexane will grab up all the cannabinoids. A tiny bit of pinene can make the water white which is discarded. Hexane is super simple to evap just by placing it in an open area that is well ventilated. I heat and vacuum purge everything anyway so after the hexane evaps off it takes three cycles of heat/purge and voila all the hexane is gone. I have a seperatory funnel but have used the corner of a zip lock bag with the corner snipped as a one use sep funnel too.

I recomend allowing a few hours between the second and last purge. It just seems like trace amounts need time to come out of solution, but we are talking about very small amounts. If you ever ate BBQ started with traditional briquette lighter fluid then you have surely ingested greater traces of hexanes with each piece of chicken lolz. You get a lungful too when you use a Zippo style lighter. (hexanes are a group of chemicals).

Purging with water in the mix makes it pop and crackle and sputters extract up onto the lid of my vac chamber. This happens because the water is heavier and sits under the oil which traps it until it explodes in a tiny burst of steam. Kind of messy.

 

[DemonTrich]

@natureboygrower
Thanks for the diy tip. Looking for a built one that can handle long term use.

 

[natureboygrower]

@natureboygrower
Thanks for the diy tip. Looking for a built one that can handle long term use.

completely understand.mine is more for personal/hobby.once i saw the pump you picked up i realized you really arent fooling around!sounds like you're putting a nice setup together.best of luck

 

[eugeneoregon]

Over complicating for no reason...you want simplicity...soak in 151 ethanol (everclear) and the filter with coffee filters, then reduce the etoh probably to half volume then freeze and filter again or evaporate all the etoh and dissolve in a minimum amount of etoh n freezing would be better, bing bang boom, done

For a complete dewaxing instead of a coffee filter, use a Buchner Funnel with a glass frit installed. On top of the glass frit place a few inches of 200-400 grit Aluminum Oxide (alumina) available on Amazon cheap. Clear the fines out of the alumina by pulling water through the vacuum column (Buchner funnel now being used for chromatography).

Once water pulls through clear, add your alcohol into the funnel on top of the alumina. I use methanol and have used iso but not ethanol. Expense is the motivator however methanol has unique and highly desirable properties elsewhere in my processes. Specifically upon recovery it can be made pure as it does not form an azeotrope with water like the others.

When you pull the alcohol through the water soaked column it will pull very hard and the first liquid out will be milk white. This is mostly water with pinene in it and is discarded. Add enough alcohol to pull all the extract through. When prepped this way the waxes present in the alcohol will not pass the alumina. Alumina comes in brown and white and both work fine. If you use brown you will instantly be able to see the waxes as they hit a wall so to speak on top of the column.

It is the same idea, but the alumina is used in a reverse chromatography sort of way some call Dry Colum Vacuum Chromatography and it is extremely thorough when used this way.

In order to remove the waxes and gunk from the alumina column so as to use the column again just pull through a quantity of acetone and the column will be cleaned. Toss the acetone which will be laced with a lot of junk.

 

[Bublonichronic]

Hmm, that's pretty cool, Iv got a Buchner laying around somewhere maybe I'll get some alumina and give it a try for shits and giggles

 

[dabbindylan]

Steam distillation in the manner depicted is taught in secondary education courses. The danger is from burns. If you ever worked with a tea pot you know how quick steam can burn you. Additionally this is art and not science, however, current thinking regarding steam distillation is to limit the size of the boiling flask to 250ml, like shown. The explosive pops from tiny pockets of superheated steam are thought to be safely contained in flask of this size or smaller.

You are correct that a metal boiling flask would be sturdier, however I do not have one. So instead I employed steam distillation as taught in secondary courses while observing the safety rules. My steam injector has a natural failsafe point in the unlikely event that pressures build dangerously This would be an extreme situation, but if it did occur the rubber hose would fail and depart before the glass ruptured. The hose is intentionally pointed away from the operator.

You did not mention which portion of my experiement that troubled you, so,my assumption of course was that you recognized the dangers of superheated steam, if it occurs. The flask is wrapped in fiberglass cloth for insulation plus containment should a catastrophic failure occur. The steam injector is very quickly disabled and moved safely if needed.

Is there another aspect of safety that I should be observing?

Not really a danger as much as a curoisty please have what your making tested by lab Eugene

 

[eugeneoregon]

Not really a danger as much as a curoisty please have what your making tested by lab Eugene

I do not utilize an outside lab for my purposes. This is medicine I make myself so I use it myself. The efffacacy is judged by whether it relieves my symptoms.

I believe that paying a lab to tell me what I can learn by smoking or vaporizing to be a waste of effort. I seriously doubt that you yourself have EVER either attempted such a seperation or have EVER taken a sample of medication that you have prepared for yourself to a lab for any sort for testing.

Therefor I conclude that you are giving advice that you have never followed yourself and while this is a common practice on the internet it serves no useful purpose in this thread.

When you personally and successfully complete any experiment to fraction marijuanna extract, then please take a video and post it yourself as a means to offer your expertise - then we can compare notes on how I might improve the process.

Until then you are posting from a postition of ignorance regarding the process.

 

[gwpharms]

But your telling people to do it without any proof of what your making and if its safe.
You are making claims that this is the best thing ever and everyone should be doing it but you prove provide no hard facts or data. Kind of goes against everything you've ever said to anyone else on here or on your site or on any other forum. You do not use outside Labs because you do not like the numbers they give you.
"Its really smooth and stoney" is your opinion and does not prove anything and gives you no reason to tell other people to do it. The wheel has already been invented I don't know why you are trying to redo it. Nobody wants your butane powered wheel anymore and nobody needs your steam powered one now. Keep it to yourself man, take your public masturbatory display somewhere else and come back when you have facts. Is your ego really that fragile?

 

[BobCajun]

I found the steam distillation thing interesting. A test result would be nice but it does cost money and use up product. He didn't try to sell anybody anything so it's jut helpful information as far as I can see. I don't even recall him suggesting that others imitate him. Maybe he did somewhere but I don't recall it.

 

[gwpharms]

Thats exactly what hes suggesting by saying its the best and safest way and most potent. He more or less says in different words it is what everybody should be doing because its legal.

Looks to me he is trying to distance himself from his past and from what his colleagues are doing in light of the changing political climate here.
But J.B. Sessons remembers the butane. and hes not fooled by graywolf changing his name to eugene and talking legal ways to make meds.

 

[eugeneoregon]

Thats exactly what hes suggesting by saying its the best and safest way and most potent. He more or less says in different words it is what everybody should be doing because its legal.

Looks to me he is trying to distance himself from his past and from what his colleagues are doing in light of the changing political climate here.
But J.B. Sessons remembers the butane. and hes not fooled by graywolf changing his name to eugene and talking legal ways to make meds.

Graywolf is the name used by a person who is part of Skunkpharm Research. That person and myself are not the same person. I also do not recall suggesting that any individual attempt doing this but I can honestly give a shit if they do, so maybe that counts. Furthermore this is certainly not a new concept or technique and predates butane or solvent extraction as far as I can see by hundreds of years.

I have never been accused of being a more enlightened and modern Graywolf lolz! I suspect that the real guy named that would gurk a bit because I SERIOUSLY doubt he is much of a fan of what I post because I have often posted dissenting opinions about Skunkpharm Research's conclusions.

You have put words into my mouth that I did not speak then support the argument by calling me by somebody elses name. You are most certainly a very young person who has never done anything even remotely similar to what I present. I do not fault you, but your conclusions are indeed faulty. Other than correctly pointing out that this method is a legal way to extract cannibinoids from extract, your post offers only unsupported falsehoods.

Thank you for the belly laugh.

 

[dabbindylan]

@eugeneoregon well actually i may or may not work for a large mip in colorado. I also may or may not have access to tools that can do gas testing down to a millionth. Steam distillation is a primitive way to extract you lose many health beneficial terptines & beautiful flavors! Not to mention its very inefficient in actually "carrying" the target substance thc/thca... In that regard thanks for shareing your knowledge but i dont see steam ever coming back into cannabis industry at least not for thc/thca

 

[eugeneoregon]

@eugeneoregon well actually i may or may not work for a large mip in colorado. I also may or may not have access to tools that can do gas testing down to a millionth. Steam distillation is a primitive way to extract you lose many health beneficial terptines & beautiful flavors! Not to mention its very inefficient in actually "carrying" the target substance thc/thca... In that regard thanks for shareing your knowledge but i dont see steam ever coming back into cannabis industry at least not for thc/thca

I do not extract at all. I only refine what I obtain. I would see steam distillation not so much for fractioning cannabinoids but rather for those who wish less exposure to pinene present in extraction. This indeed is very efficient at doing that. A health benefit to one person could mean serious complications to another. I have been sensitized to some terpenes and if I do not remove them then the medicine is largley unusable by me. I do not entertain any notion about doing this for a business. Too much cloak and dagger and a bunch of top secret extraction agents all running around with their own million dollar secret and talking in inuendo if you ask me.

My purpose in posting is not to inform doubters of new ideas but is rather posted as a way to assist those who are looking for new ideas. It is impossible for you and I to know beforehand what wonderful tangential idea might be spawned in our fellow man should he glance just for a moment at the information and notice something nobody else ever did. We can dismiss ideas, ignore ideas, or dispute ideas ad nauseum. I post instead because there are people raised in a tradition of embracing new ideas. This is my target audience. No dispute.

 

[Fadedawg]

Thats exactly what hes suggesting by saying its the best and safest way and most potent. He more or less says in different words it is what everybody should be doing because its legal.

Looks to me he is trying to distance himself from his past and from what his colleagues are doing in light of the changing political climate here.
But J.B. Sessons remembers the butane. and hes not fooled by graywolf changing his name to eugene and talking legal ways to make meds.

Again you reveal not only your ignorance, but your lack of veracity and an obsession with Graywolf.

Don't you have a real life little boy, or are you content to continue to make a fool out of yourself on this forum by continuing to publishing easily dis proven bull shit?

I do agree that it is easier for you to masturbate in public while hiding behind someone else's legitimate name like GW Pharms, I just have zero respect for you doing so.

 

[cookie master]

For a complete dewaxing instead of a coffee filter, use a Buchner Funnel with a glass frit installed. On top of the glass frit place a few inches of 200-400 grit Aluminum Oxide (alumina) available on Amazon cheap. Clear the fines out of the alumina by pulling water through the vacuum column (Buchner funnel now being used for chromatography).

Once water pulls through clear, add your alcohol into the funnel on top of the alumina. I use methanol and have used iso but not ethanol. Expense is the motivator however methanol has unique and highly desirable properties elsewhere in my processes. Specifically upon recovery it can be made pure as it does not form an azeotrope with water like the others.

When you pull the alcohol through the water soaked column it will pull very hard and the first liquid out will be milk white. This is mostly water with pinene in it and is discarded. Add enough alcohol to pull all the extract through. When prepped this way the waxes present in the alcohol will not pass the alumina. Alumina comes in brown and white and both work fine. If you use brown you will instantly be able to see the waxes as they hit a wall so to speak on top of the column.

It is the same idea, but the alumina is used in a reverse chromatography sort of way some call Dry Colum Vacuum Chromatography and it is extremely thorough when used this way.

In order to remove the waxes and gunk from the alumina column so as to use the column again just pull through a quantity of acetone and the column will be cleaned. Toss the acetone which will be laced with a lot of junk.

I read a story on here about someone having 80 ppm acetone due to cleaning a gasket or something, and everyone acted disgusted. Now you are suggesting running acetone through sand prior to running bho through that sand??? What cleans the acetone out of the silica prior to reuse? are you assuming evaporates 100%?

 

[cookie master]

isnt a lab filter enough? The waxes arent harmful, acetone is. If the waxes are bad then ive been smokin them in my greens for years so whats the big deal?

 

[Fadedawg]

FDA considers Acetone a Class III solvent.