Dudemankidson
Active Member
Being relatively new I'd reccomend against trying to mix your own concoction. Buy something premixed. Save yourself a headache. Start simple, you'll have way more success early on.
Nutes help
- Thread starter ShitakeShroom
- Start date
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
I've only been checking out the products available at Lowe's, home depot, and Walmart, as well as Amazon.
Of the 4, they don't seem to have what I think I'm looking for.
Theres a few garden centre plant nursery type places, and 2 hydroponic stores nearby.
Unfortunately they have lousy websites, so I'll have to go in person to see what's available.
I can't believe the stretch I'm getting from her so far. And how fast pistils are growing too.
I'm lucky to be having such a positive experience so far
Of the 4, they don't seem to have what I think I'm looking for.
Theres a few garden centre plant nursery type places, and 2 hydroponic stores nearby.
Unfortunately they have lousy websites, so I'll have to go in person to see what's available.
I can't believe the stretch I'm getting from her so far. And how fast pistils are growing too.
I'm lucky to be having such a positive experience so far
Dudemankidson
Active Member
Home Depot, Lowes, & Walmart probably won't have what you need imo. I get nutes off of Amazon on occasion. You can get anything there.
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
In America, yes. The Canada amazon doesn't have the same products I don't think.
Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
Oops.Thanks for the irrelevant post.
Care to elaborate? Or did you just want to bump your post count..
The good Dr. is actually one of the better known growers in these parts.
You may have just blown your best chance at getting good advice.
I would try to help, but you obviously know more than me... (yep, that's sarcasm)
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
That's silly if he's that sensitive.
But did you see what he wrote?
Came all the way here to waste his own time saying nothing.
Not being insulting, just didn't see the point in jumping up to say "I'm saying nothing! Look at me"
My thought is if he wanted to give me advice, he would have.
Next, where did you gather from ANY of that, that I said "I know more than you"? Even to say it sarcasticly would imply that you on some level think I eluded to knowing more than you.
As yet, I have said nothing to disagree with any information except to say that I believe my product selection is more limited than you may think.
Thanks for your opinion, however.
But did you see what he wrote?
Came all the way here to waste his own time saying nothing.
Not being insulting, just didn't see the point in jumping up to say "I'm saying nothing! Look at me"
My thought is if he wanted to give me advice, he would have.
Next, where did you gather from ANY of that, that I said "I know more than you"? Even to say it sarcasticly would imply that you on some level think I eluded to knowing more than you.
As yet, I have said nothing to disagree with any information except to say that I believe my product selection is more limited than you may think.
Thanks for your opinion, however.
Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
He's not sensitive, you're just a dick.
Good luck with your grow...
greg nr
Well-Known Member
Just to demystify the numbers a little bit, the npk values (5-2-2 for example) refer to the ratio by percent of each component in the blend. So the 5-2-2 is 5% nitrogen, 2% phosphorous, and 2 % potassium, by wight. So a 50-20-20 blend would have the same ratio's, but a much higher concentration of the actual components.
The ratios are important because you want a specific ratio for veg vs flower. In veg, the 5-2-2 would be good, but in flower you might want a 1-5-5.
To feed however, you need to know the parts per million of the blend when it's diluted in water. It won't matter to the plant if you give them 500 ppm of 50-20-20 or 500 ppm of 5-2-2. Both would have the same amount of minerals.
But it is very easy to burn plants using the higher ratios if you aren't careful and use your meter properly (and are using the correct meter for your blend - there are actually 2 ppm meter scales but only one for ec).
You can do a search. People have grown with all of the store brands from miracle grow on down. But pay attention to the mixing........
.
The ratios are important because you want a specific ratio for veg vs flower. In veg, the 5-2-2 would be good, but in flower you might want a 1-5-5.
To feed however, you need to know the parts per million of the blend when it's diluted in water. It won't matter to the plant if you give them 500 ppm of 50-20-20 or 500 ppm of 5-2-2. Both would have the same amount of minerals.
But it is very easy to burn plants using the higher ratios if you aren't careful and use your meter properly (and are using the correct meter for your blend - there are actually 2 ppm meter scales but only one for ec).
You can do a search. People have grown with all of the store brands from miracle grow on down. But pay attention to the mixing........
.
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
That is basically the summary of what I've read on the net. I don't quite understand that.
Moreso I can never find a direct answer to what ppm I should be feeding her.
I have a 3-1-1 food currently. It's 15-5-5
So I could give it 1 drop, or 1000 drops. The instructions say 7 drops per litre of water. But that doesn't say what the ppm will be, nor do I have a target ppm I should be aiming for when feeding the plant.
It almost seems like everyone is just randomly feeding various amounts of stuff to plants, with no actual targets to shoot for... That's what I can't figure out.
I have seen similar "ratio" mentioned. A 5-3-2 for veg, and a 1-3-2 for flower ,
But even those ratios differ depending which site I read it from.
greg nr
Well-Known Member
You aren't going to know the ppm until you measure it with a meter. Sorry.
What I do is take a gallon of water and add 5 ml's of the nute. Then measure the ppm. I do that for each and every nute. That way I know if I add 2 ml's of one, 2 ml's of another, and 1 of something else, I will hit a particular ppm.
The ppm strength depends on the size of the plant and where it is in the grow cycle. I can't give you a simple answer because it isn't a simple question. That's why the bottled nute lines are popular. They tell you 3 ml's of a/b/c and 5 of bottle x. They also tell you that should be 1800 ppm's. Cut it to 20% and it should be a starting point for a particular week. Otherwise you need a lot more reading.
What I do is take a gallon of water and add 5 ml's of the nute. Then measure the ppm. I do that for each and every nute. That way I know if I add 2 ml's of one, 2 ml's of another, and 1 of something else, I will hit a particular ppm.
The ppm strength depends on the size of the plant and where it is in the grow cycle. I can't give you a simple answer because it isn't a simple question. That's why the bottled nute lines are popular. They tell you 3 ml's of a/b/c and 5 of bottle x. They also tell you that should be 1800 ppm's. Cut it to 20% and it should be a starting point for a particular week. Otherwise you need a lot more reading.
Dudemankidson
Active Member
In a nutshell you have to kind of figure out a starting point for yourself regarding ppms. I like to start my girls at 100-200 when I start to see the lower leaves lighten up. I usually get my plain water at around 50-70ppm. So I'm only giving 50-150ppms of nutes. With around that being a starting point, I'm up between 750-800ppms halfway or less thru bloom. My starting point is usually an 8th or a sixteenth of the reccomended dosage on the bottle.
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
Ok... I appreciate your effort and information.
But I think I don't know how to ask the right question.
This is something I found:
PPM levels chart:
But I can't find information on how much of what to add to get to x ppm at a given time.
I'm in the early blooming stage. So I want to give it 850 ppm give or take, and it should have a 1-5-5 ratio of n-p-k, and I add enough of a solution of 1-5-5 stuff to water till the metre says it's 850ish ppm.
Is this correct?
And basically if I find a 1-5-5 by fox farms, or a 10-50-50 by grotek, the only difference is how much of it I'll be adding to the water to reach 850ppm?
If my example ratio of fox farms mix needs 12 tablespoons to reach 850ppm, the grotek may only require 1 to reach it because of the higher concentration?
Is this all accurate or do I still completely not understand
Another problem is I don't know what PPM the product is intending on reaching.
I have Schultz 15-5-5 concentrate orchid food with micro nutes.
It says to use 7 drops.
Why 7? why not 12?
Why not 1 drop?
Why does the package and company say 7 drops per litre of water? I assume that is to reach a specific ppm? Probably a ppm range for orchids..?
But I think I don't know how to ask the right question.
This is something I found:
PPM levels chart:
- Seedlings, Early Sprouts – 100 to 250
- Early Veg’ Stage – 300 to 400
- Full Vegetation Stage – 450 to 700
- Early Blooming Stage – 750 to 950
- Full Mature Bloom/Ripening Stage – 1000 to 1600
But I can't find information on how much of what to add to get to x ppm at a given time.
I'm in the early blooming stage. So I want to give it 850 ppm give or take, and it should have a 1-5-5 ratio of n-p-k, and I add enough of a solution of 1-5-5 stuff to water till the metre says it's 850ish ppm.
Is this correct?
And basically if I find a 1-5-5 by fox farms, or a 10-50-50 by grotek, the only difference is how much of it I'll be adding to the water to reach 850ppm?
If my example ratio of fox farms mix needs 12 tablespoons to reach 850ppm, the grotek may only require 1 to reach it because of the higher concentration?
Is this all accurate or do I still completely not understand
Another problem is I don't know what PPM the product is intending on reaching.
I have Schultz 15-5-5 concentrate orchid food with micro nutes.
It says to use 7 drops.
Why 7? why not 12?
Why not 1 drop?
Why does the package and company say 7 drops per litre of water? I assume that is to reach a specific ppm? Probably a ppm range for orchids..?
Dudemankidson
Active Member
Figuring out how many milliliter to add to get to your desired ppm is relatively simple. Figure out your base. Add 5ml. Measure again. Note the difference. Add more ml until your at your desired ppm. I never get to more than 1200-1300ppms in bloom myself. I usually only get up to about 75% of full strength reccomended on any bottled nute I've ever used. I'm far from a pro bud so all that ish above is just info to hopefully help ya.
So to clarify through through my rambling here. To your first question, yes.
@ your FF/Grotek inquiry, also yes.
Last question is a yes too.
So to clarify through through my rambling here. To your first question, yes.
@ your FF/Grotek inquiry, also yes.
Last question is a yes too.
ShitakeShroom
Active Member
Thanks a lot dudemankidson and Greg.
You've helped me clarify it quite a bit.
I get the science behind trial and error to find the ppm.
I just had no idea the ppm requirements.
That's where I was basically trying to ask "how much npk Is too much?"
I think I have a basic understanding I can "grow" off of.
You've helped me clarify it quite a bit.
I get the science behind trial and error to find the ppm.
I just had no idea the ppm requirements.
That's where I was basically trying to ask "how much npk Is too much?"
I think I have a basic understanding I can "grow" off of.
Dudemankidson
Active Member
Glad to be of aid. Pm anytime in the future you'd like to bounce an idea off of someone. I'm always interested in acquiring new knowledge and helping others do the same.Thanks a lot dudemankidson and Greg.
You've helped me clarify it quite a bit.
I get the science behind trial and error to find the ppm.
I just had no idea the ppm requirements.
That's where I was basically trying to ask "how much npk Is too much?"
I think I have a basic understanding I can "grow" off of.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Very relevant!Thanks for the irrelevant post.
Care to elaborate? Or did you just want to bump your post count..
I actually was being nice to start but, well wise ass. It's like this. MG soil is basically poison to cannabis if it has those nice little "timed release" nutrients in it. As far as soil that stays moist longer. Well that ain't best idea for MJ either,,,,,pilgrim... learning to grow and indoor tropical and actual learning about growing by say a "good" grow book. Goes even farther!
I like to suggest this one - it has science and everything in it....
https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Growers-Handbook-Complete-Cultivation/dp/0932551467/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480249904&sr=8-1&keywords=ed+rosenthals+marijuana+growers+handbook
I'll stop now and remain civil....
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
@ShitakeShroom
I can't seem to find the answer Im looking for anywhere.
What's nutrient ratios should I be feeding a plant?
This is a choice made by trying things out for your self. But, a ratio of 3-1-2 is a good place to start....a straight 20-20-20 at 25% would give you a 5-5-5 feed that would work out too.
I realize during veg nitro should be high, and during veg phosphorus should be higher, and virtually no nitrogen.
This is a big misconception! Your NPK does not have to "change" at the flip to have good results. I have begun playing with synthetics again. Enjoying the line I'm trying a lot. I don't use a "Veg" part (it's 3 part Veg- Base -Bloom). I simply use a 30 day soil and up pot as the plant needs. Solo's, to 1 gallons, to 3's and then to 5's or 7's for 10 days to set the roots and flip to bloom. At bloom, they now get the Base and the Bloom at 4-6-6. I supplement Mg sulfate and K sulfate at increasing amounts till the bulk and stop. I feed to harvest and do a proper dry and cure - (I only flush toilets)
But what percentage? They sell such a large variety.
For example, miracle gro has a "bloom" that's 15-30-15
This is actually a "3-6-3" ratio. If applied at 33%, you'll have a feed concentration of 5-10-5%. Now take it down to a 20% value and you have 3-6-3% feed concentration, and all I would do is beef the K up and this ratio and strength would be a good one to try.. BUT- SKIP MG nutrients! They are not good with micro's, Ca and Mg for growing cananbis
Schultz has one that's 10-54-10
This is a nasty, nasty ratio! Cutting it down to 25% still gives you a 5-13.5-5 concentration and that's way too high a P - "in ratio" to the other parts.
Fox farms Bloom is 2-8-4
Low N - High P = yellowing plant. Same as above.
And grotek monster Bloom is 0-50-30
Looks like some variation of MPP.....more plant burning power - that you don't need! Leave this shit on the shelf!
So I'm lost.
If I buy the fox farms, do I use 5x the dosage in the water?
If I get grotek, do I use half the dosage?
If you choose a nutrient line that makes a drop in N and a big rise in P for the bloom, and instruct you to use the bloom nutrient right at the flip - They are wrong! MOST of these nutrient lines are actually formulated for flowers or veggies.....OR even if "intended" for MM. They tend to chart for what the uneducated grower "believes" to be true. Don't start a bloom nutrient till week 3 and then at a 50:50 mix with the veg - for another week. THEN you go 100% bloom nutes. Many simply use a single nutrient - start to finish! been that way for years and these specialty nutrient makers, are simply handing you guys a cock and bull story about the plants "needs".....
One of my favorite nutrient lines - raises the base N in bloom and supplements a moderate P&K booster at week 4.......True healthy plants - stay green to the end...
Help me understand....
What is enough, and what is too much?[/QUOTE]
See, I'm being nice.....understand a bit more?
Btw. If I wanted to bump any counts, all I would have to do is hang out in toke and talk......
I can't seem to find the answer Im looking for anywhere.
What's nutrient ratios should I be feeding a plant?
This is a choice made by trying things out for your self. But, a ratio of 3-1-2 is a good place to start....a straight 20-20-20 at 25% would give you a 5-5-5 feed that would work out too.
I realize during veg nitro should be high, and during veg phosphorus should be higher, and virtually no nitrogen.
This is a big misconception! Your NPK does not have to "change" at the flip to have good results. I have begun playing with synthetics again. Enjoying the line I'm trying a lot. I don't use a "Veg" part (it's 3 part Veg- Base -Bloom). I simply use a 30 day soil and up pot as the plant needs. Solo's, to 1 gallons, to 3's and then to 5's or 7's for 10 days to set the roots and flip to bloom. At bloom, they now get the Base and the Bloom at 4-6-6. I supplement Mg sulfate and K sulfate at increasing amounts till the bulk and stop. I feed to harvest and do a proper dry and cure - (I only flush toilets)
But what percentage? They sell such a large variety.
For example, miracle gro has a "bloom" that's 15-30-15
This is actually a "3-6-3" ratio. If applied at 33%, you'll have a feed concentration of 5-10-5%. Now take it down to a 20% value and you have 3-6-3% feed concentration, and all I would do is beef the K up and this ratio and strength would be a good one to try.. BUT- SKIP MG nutrients! They are not good with micro's, Ca and Mg for growing cananbis
Schultz has one that's 10-54-10
This is a nasty, nasty ratio! Cutting it down to 25% still gives you a 5-13.5-5 concentration and that's way too high a P - "in ratio" to the other parts.
Fox farms Bloom is 2-8-4
Low N - High P = yellowing plant. Same as above.
And grotek monster Bloom is 0-50-30
Looks like some variation of MPP.....more plant burning power - that you don't need! Leave this shit on the shelf!
So I'm lost.
If I buy the fox farms, do I use 5x the dosage in the water?
If I get grotek, do I use half the dosage?
If you choose a nutrient line that makes a drop in N and a big rise in P for the bloom, and instruct you to use the bloom nutrient right at the flip - They are wrong! MOST of these nutrient lines are actually formulated for flowers or veggies.....OR even if "intended" for MM. They tend to chart for what the uneducated grower "believes" to be true. Don't start a bloom nutrient till week 3 and then at a 50:50 mix with the veg - for another week. THEN you go 100% bloom nutes. Many simply use a single nutrient - start to finish! been that way for years and these specialty nutrient makers, are simply handing you guys a cock and bull story about the plants "needs".....
One of my favorite nutrient lines - raises the base N in bloom and supplements a moderate P&K booster at week 4.......True healthy plants - stay green to the end...
Help me understand....
What is enough, and what is too much?[/QUOTE]
See, I'm being nice.....understand a bit more?
Btw. If I wanted to bump any counts, all I would have to do is hang out in toke and talk......
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visajoe1
Well-Known Member
classy. as per usual. your SN suits you well
