The official Hillary Clinton will be our next president thread

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st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

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UncleBuck said:
is that your takeaway?
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My takeaway is that you're trying to downplay the racism that Obama faced and pump up the sexism that Hillary faced because you think it bolsters your argument.

Obama won in spite of the racism because he ran a good campaign and tapped in to peoples desire for change. Hillary lost because she ran a tone-def campaign and offered more of the same.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
My takeaway is that you're trying to downplay the racism that Obama faced and pump up the sexism that Hillary faced because you think it bolsters your argument.

Obama won in spite of the racism because he ran a good campaign and tapped in to peoples desire for change. Hillary lost because she ran a tone-def campaign and offered more of the same.
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Indeed, @UncleBuck has been getting more and more tone deaf lately.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
My takeaway is that you're trying to downplay the racism that Obama faced and pump up the sexism that Hillary faced because you think it bolsters your argument.

Obama won in spite of the racism because he ran a good campaign and tapped in to peoples desire for change. Hillary lost because she ran a tone-def campaign and offered more of the same.
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Do you think that misogyny was not a factor in 2016?

Racism didn't just go away because we had a white woman as a Democratic candidate in 2016 either. I have yet to see a valid endorsement of anything Democrat from the KKK or alt right. So there is that. In an election where the electoral college votes turned by very slim margins in key states, how can you say these didn't make a difference for Clinton?

I say they did. Not an excuse but don't take away the facts for people to consider. We quite likely have Trump because of racism and misogyny against the Democratic party's candidate. You seem to be taking the line that minorities and women have disadvantages when competing against white men and so must work harder to overcome them before they can begin to compete with white men who never had those to overcome.

It's like saying that minorities and women have to be better than white men in order to be equal.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Do you think that misogyny was not a factor in 2016?

Racism didn't just go away because we had a white woman as a Democratic candidate in 2016 either. I have yet to see a valid endorsement of anything Democrat from the KKK or alt right. So there is that. In an election where the electoral college votes turned by very slim margins in key states, how can you say these didn't make a difference for Clinton?

I say they did. Not an excuse but don't take away the facts for people to consider. We quite likely have Trump because of racism and misogyny against the Democratic party's candidate. You seem to be taking the line that minorities and women have disadvantages when competing against white men and so must work harder to overcome them before they can begin to compete with white men who never had those to overcome.

It's like saying that minorities and women have to be better than white men in order to be equal.
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Ask women and minorities if they feel like have to be better than white men to be taken seriously. Then be quiet and listen carefully, because the answer is almost always, 'yes'.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

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ttystikk said:
Ask women and minorities if they feel like have to be better than white men to be taken seriously. Then be quiet and listen carefully, because the answer is almost always, 'yes'.
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I'm glad we can agree then. So let's not sweep misogyny under the rug when vilifying Hillary Clinton about her very narrow losses in some key states. In fact, let's not sweep misogyny or racism under the rug when holding Hillary Clinton to higher standards than the white men she was competing against.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Do you think that misogyny was not a factor in 2016?

Racism didn't just go away because we had a white woman as a Democratic candidate in 2016 either. I have yet to see a valid endorsement of anything Democrat from the KKK or alt right. So there is that. In an election where the electoral college votes turned by very slim margins in key states, how can you say these didn't make a difference for Clinton?

I say they did. Not an excuse but don't take away the facts for people to consider. We quite likely have Trump because of racism and misogyny against the Democratic party's candidate. You seem to be taking the line that minorities and women have disadvantages when competing against white men and so must work harder to overcome them before they can begin to compete with white men who never had those to overcome.

It's like saying that minorities and women have to be better than white men in order to be equal.
Click to expand...
Eh? You're inferring an awful lot there. I didn't say that sexism didn't play a role, I said that it played no more of a role in 2016 than racism did in 08 and 12. Do you disagree with that?

And yes, I do believe that a minority or a woman, or a gay person would have a tougher hill to climb when running for potus than a straight white male would. That doesn't mean that I think they're inferior or not worthy of the job, it's just the facts. There is a segment of our society that would not vote for someone, no matter their qualifications, simply because they belong to one of the minority groups mentioned above.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
My takeaway is that you're trying to downplay the racism that Obama faced and pump up the sexism that Hillary faced because you think it bolsters your argument.

Obama won in spite of the racism because he ran a good campaign and tapped in to peoples desire for change. Hillary lost because she ran a tone-def campaign and offered more of the same.
Click to expand...
not only did hillary face the sexism barrier, she faced more racism than obama did, because she actually called it out. whereas obama dared not say much about it, ever.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Eh? You're inferring an awful lot there. I didn't say that sexism didn't play a role, I said that it played no more of a role in 2016 than racism did in 08 and 12. Do you disagree with that?

And yes, I do believe that a minority or a woman, or a gay person would have a tougher hill to climb when running for potus than a straight white male would. That doesn't mean that I think they're inferior or not worthy of the job, it's just the facts. There is a segment of our society that would not vote for someone, no matter their qualifications, simply because they belong to one of the minority groups mentioned above.
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i think you're missing out on how prevalent, ingrained, and accepted sexism is in this country as compared to racism.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you should tell mueller to fire his team because it was all just a conspiracy theory.
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I really hope his team finds something. Until and unless they do, I'm regarding the situation as a very big smokescreen, to cover up the fact that Democrats don't represent their constituents any better than Republicans do.
 
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