Crinkly leaves/yellow veining

[fantome_vert]

Hey friends,

This is my first grow ever and I've not encountered any major issues so far except on these 2 plants:

One of them has really crinkly wrinkly leaves on about 60% of the plant (photos #1 and #2).



Another has leaves with really distinct lighter/yellow veining (photo #3).


I've been reading a lot on the forums but I really don't have the experience to know what exactly might be affecting them (if at all). I don't want to overthink anything and everything too so any advice would be appreciated.

Details of my grow:
- they are being grown in fabric pots, in a mix of promix HP (60%), perlite (20%), earthworm castings (20%) and dolomitic lime (trace). Currently they are in 3 gallon pots, but I plan to transplant them into 10 and 15 gallon pots soon.
- they were started indoors but are now outdoors, and are still in vegetative growth. I plan to build a greenhouse to finish them off as I am afraid October/November will get way too cold before they fully mature.
- I water them every 2 days or as needed, depending on the weather.
- I haven't been very diligent with my nutrient calculations but am planing to buck up as I am seeing many lower leaves yellowing (nitrogen deficiency?). I am using AN Sensi Grow at the moment.
- I haven't been monitoring pH, but I will if these happen to be pH problems.

Thanks guys!

 

[im4satori]

looks like low ph and or possibly under fertilized

 

[OldMedUser]

How long ago did you move them outside and did you harden them off first? Might just be a little sun damage/burn as they look like they are growing pretty fast with the light green centers in the growing tips and that's tender leaf until it greens up.

Don't worry about the pH with the Sensi. It will work fine even if your soil is way out of whack. If you're using hard water to water them with you could end up with problems down the road but if you get a lot of rain it should help keep mineral buildup down. That's another thing too. Lots of rain will also flush out your nutes easy in cloth bags or pots so you may need to re-nute after a wet spell and they'll put it to good use once they get lots of sun again.

If the lower leaves are yellowing I'd feed some more and maybe add some epsom salts or CalMag to the mix when you feed them. Could be a little Mg deficiency going on. Low N and low Mg look very similar and affect the same class of leaves. Just don't toss to much in as more is rarely better.

Good luck!

 

[Johnei]

AN sensi grow.. another one with problems... I always hear sensi grow when weird problems arise.. get rid of that shit is my advice to you, The grow store guy did you no favors selling you that crap.. and put the plants in bigger pots of fresh soil and they will fix themselves. A nice foliar spray of a seaweed product a few times over a few days will help you here and knock out any micronutrient deficiency.

 

[OldMedUser]

Another AN hater who knows nothing about it. I've use AN nutes including Sensi for 16 years, grown hundreds of plants in all sorts of soil, soilless and DWC and never have any deficiency or pH problems. After almost 9 years of helping folks in forums with their problems rarely see anyone in trouble with AN unless they're suckers and try using the whole line. It's always some cheap nutes made for growing veggies like GH, bad tap water or grower error.

But you heard some BS about Sensi so you're now an authority.

 

[Johnei]

Sensi Grow/Bloom can go bad/seperate and you wouldn't know, is my issue with them.

 

[im4satori]

im sure both the sensi and GH are both fine if there mixed properly

I will say again

to me it looks like a mico nute issue

the plants not super dark green so it doesn't appear to be over fertilized

so theres two things to consider with the micro def

either under fertilizing or low ph causing un availability of certain micro nutes

if your ph is at or under 5.5 that would be the problem

if you added lime but didn't wait long enough or didn't add enough your ph could be that far out

post a picture of the fertilizers % amounts for your nutes and we can check out how your mixing and if its balanced

 

[OldMedUser]

Sensi Grow/Bloom can go bad/seperate and you wouldn't know, is my issue with them.

Then that falls under the category of grower error for not having the common sense to shake the bottles up before using. I'm still using Sensi that's about 3 years old and the plants like it. Got a little Connoisseur left over too from the same time and use it for the stretch then switch to the 3-part so I can run Lucas formula after the stretch. Even with the 3-part I tilt the bottles back and forth a couple times before drawing out any. I keep 3 old 500ml peroxide bottles full from the gallon jugs so it's easier to handle and the big jugs stored away on a dark, cool shelf in the basement.

@im4satori I'd like to hear back from the OP about how long since those plants got put outside because it doesn't look like a micro deficiency to me and with the soilless mix he's using there shouldn't be any pH issues that the pH Perfect nutes wouldn't work thru. The 20% worm castings are chock full of micros and ProMix HP has been my primary soilless blend that I've used for about 6 years with never an issue. I just add my nutes to RO water and dump them in and haven't ever checked pH since I started using them. I figure he's under-feeding if anything.

I got my bottles of Sensi right here.

Part A is 3-0-0, nitrate nitrogen and 3% Ca. Derived from Calcium nitrate and Magnesium nitrate so there must be Mg in there too but it's not listed on the label.

Part B is 1-2-6, 94% nitrate nitrogen, 0.03% ammoniacal N and 0.03% urea N. P2O5 for the P and K2O for the K with 1.3% S

Due to labeling laws for fertilizers no nute maker can list things like amino acids or other additives that don't fall under the general ones allowed. It's OK to list other things with supplements as they aren't considered plant foods in general agriculture. The stupid laws vary from state to state so everyone goes with generic labeling to avoid having different labels to meet each states requirements. On their website they spell out the ingredients in more detail tho.

 

[im4satori]

5mls part A
10 mls part B

per gallon throws a pretty good bloom formula for N & K numbers but its a very low P fertilizer (which some prefer)

but similar to the lucas formula the N is half the K... but eh N will rise slightly depending on your calmag needs

66ppm N
23 ppm P
132 ppm K


10mls part A 10 mls part B throws good veg numbers for NPK

106ppm N
23ppm P
132ppm K

but since they don't list the magnesium and calcium who knows if the cation is balanced with the potassium amount

I will also make note; if your using there bloom boosters to increase P during flower you might be getting to much K depending how its mixed

 

[im4satori]

as for my guess on the micros

I could be wrong ..

but if his ph is out certain micros will become un available despite the fact theyre in the medium

and im not sure what you think they mean by "ph perfect nutes"

just because they "claim" the nutes buffer the water ph or solution to some degree doesn't mean the soil ph is in range

 

[Canna Live Buds]

Have you looked into broad mites? That glossy look and the leaves shriveling up are one of the systems of broad mites.

 

[OldMedUser]

just because they "claim" the nutes buffer the water ph or solution to some degree doesn't mean the soil ph is in range

But that's not how they really work tho. They are pH Perfect so the water or soil doesn't have to be and they will still deliver their goodness to the plants. Just point and shoot and they hit the target.

Where people mess up is trying to adjust the pH once they've mixed up their nutes and that throws things off. If your feed water is the wrong pH then you can tweak that a bit if you want but it's not necessary and shouldn't be brought down to say 6 but 7 would be OK if you really have to tho you don't. With RO water it's just a matter of putting the right amount of nutes in and watering your plants. I honestly have never checked the pH since I ran out of my old 3-part nutes and started using the Sensi and Connie pH Perfect ones. I've now decided to go back to the 3-part so I can better control the amounts of N they get in later flowering as I was getting burn from too much N in the Connie I figured. Seems to have done the trick because this last grow in soilless had no crispy leaves starting mid-flower like before running it as Lucas after the stretch. Hoping for the same results when I start up DWC again in Sept. as that is how I plan to do the bulk of my growing from now on. My thumbs are a lot greener in deep water than they are in dirt.

 

[im4satori]

I understand what your saying and im glad its working for you

id just be weary of advising others to ignore ph as there source water and medium might be different than yours

if your in soil and the soil is already the proper ph to start because it was limed then you don't need to worry about source water ph cuz the lime and soil and biology is going to keep it stable/buffer

but if your soil or medium ph is out to start with your nutes aren't going to correct the problem

now they might be using chelated elements that would help make micro elements more available at a wider range but youd still be better off in range

I just wouldn't be suggested ph is not a factor what so ever because of the special buffering of the nutes

 

[Bugeye]

Have you looked into broad mites? That glossy look and the leaves shriveling up are one of the systems of broad mites.

My first thought as well. I would treat with Forbid4f and see if new growth improves.

 

[fantome_vert]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the replies!

@OldMedUser I put them out the 2nd week June, and for the first few days they were in the shadows of the big trees in the garden. I gradually moved them into the sun after that. And thanks for the advice about the rain washing nutes away. It's been raining quite frequently this past month. I'll definitely up their nutrient intake.

I should also note that I have 30 plants in total in my garden now. Yes, 30... and all female; I checked the preflowers! Let's hope they all make it to the end. I didn't think all the seeds I had would pop but they all did, and I have the space in the garden (I live in the boondocks), so I thought why not!

@im4satori thanks for the pH advice, I'll definitely look into getting a pH meter or something. @OldMedUser I'm not disregarding your advice but I'm thinking if I'm going to be serious about growing, I better have (almost) everything covered!

@Johnei I would use a foliar spray but the last time I used a kelp product (on my other garden plants), the raccoons dug everything up! I had to resort to grinding black pepper over everyone to keep them at bay and so far, no more overturned pots.

@cannalivebuds @Bugeye yeah I was looking at a few photos of broadmite infestations online and thought that too. I know I'm not growing organically using AN but I'm a bit hesitant to use any synthetic insecticides on the plants themselves. I'll try to look up some natural products that might help.

 

[im4satori]

im not the guy for bugs.. I don't diagnose them well... so maybe it is bugs idk

but mites are a bitch to get rid of... you think theyre gone and they come back

its early enough in the year and you don't have big blooms .. if your sure you have them id do something now that really works... and most organic options don't work well for mites ... at least in my experience. floramite will stop mites for sure! but its not considered "safe" ... that's up too you! but its early enough that whatever you use it will have time to clear before you harvest

if its a micro nute issue.. I have some micor nute powder I use "peters s.t.e.m." micro nute mix that I foliar feed to correct micro nute issue... im not sure what you have available to you

 

[OldMedUser]

I understand what your saying and im glad its working for you

id just be weary of advising others to ignore ph as there source water and medium might be different than yours

if your in soil and the soil is already the proper ph to start because it was limed then you don't need to worry about source water ph cuz the lime and soil and biology is going to keep it stable/buffer

but if your soil or medium ph is out to start with your nutes aren't going to correct the problem

now they might be using chelated elements that would help make micro elements more available at a wider range but youd still be better off in range

I just wouldn't be suggested ph is not a factor what so ever because of the special buffering of the nutes

I've worked with new growers using a wide range of media and different tap water or RO and everybody seemed to get good results. Someone growing in the ground with too sweet or too sour a soil could likely run into issues but they would do so with any nutes unless they take steps to correct the pH of all that soil.

Like I said I'm not much of a soil grower and this last grow using ProMix HP and ProMix potting soil 50/50 was a bit of a disappointment. I have got much better yields when just using straight HP so that experiment isn't going to get repeated.

but if your soil or medium ph is out to start with your nutes aren't going to correct the problem

As I said above, too much out of whack or large amounts of bad pH soil might hinder them but the nutes ability to be usable by the plants under a hugely wide range of pH is their best feature. They are not going to change the pH of anything except pure water much as that's not their purpose. Whatever juju AN does to the nutes gets them to your plants regardless.

Most guys are starting with soil or media that is already been amended so it's going to be around the correct pH for plants and if they used only RO water like I do would never run into deficiencies or lockouts. Hard water is going to gradually increase the pH of the soil and I'd wager the pH Perfect stuff would work all the way to the end tho there would likely be problems with toxic salts buildup because of all the extra minerals in the water left behind after every watering. Even with 20% runoff each time it still builds up. A real good flush before flipping to flower is what I'd do if I used hard water in pots. I never do runoff and just give them enough to saturate the rootball. If there's a bit left in the tray it's sucked up as the plant uses the water and gone by morning. All their micros are chelated or partially chelated to the form most usable by the plant they claim and I've never seen deficiencies when I'm feeding them right.

pH is one of the main things that messes up newer growers and with that out of the way they can get the hang of all the other stuff with a lot less to worry about and for not so new lazy growers like me it's less work and worry so that's always a big plus to me.

 

[Johnei]

Do what you plan to and transplant them to the 10or15gallon pots and your problems will most likely go away.

This is probably heat damage.
mostly on top only
curled in on itself to conserve moisture
the leaf edges curling up...
probably heat damage and not even a nutrient or ph issue...

 

[Johnei]

Move the plant closer the other plants that don't have this problem. See if it IS heat/SuperSun problem?

--Bigger pots, bigger roots give more 'buffer' and strength against environmental extremes, is why I recommended you to do the transplant you plan to sooner rather than later.

Ok, byebye.

GoodGrowing!

 

[VinnyOcean]

http://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabis-broad-mites